2 new tires on front or rear?

[buggsie blue]

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

How? Please explain because I see so much wrong with having better tires on the axle that doesn't brake or steer.

From what the tire manufacturers said, it was basically that most drivers can't control oversteer. I think there was a youtube video on it. Let me find it...


I think Michelin started it...

What you just said is that most drivers can't drive. You don't controll understeer, you encourage the car to do what you want instead of going straight, but mainly you just cut the power by letting go of the throttle, steer to where you do want to go and wait for it.
Unless it's power-understeer that happens when you floor the gas in the middle of a turn, then you just ease off on the power till you feel the front tires working again.

Either way it's based on reducing power input and waiting.

No, best tires go on the axle that has to steer and brake, thus the front. (let alone a few VERY RARE examples of rear wheel steered cars).

So, my reaction to that video:

In the red car, she tells him to stamp on the brakes when the rear is already losing traction?
That just worsens the reaction and in a front wheel drive it is the worst thing you can do. Wait, in a rear wheel drive it's also a stupid thing to do. It just is stupid. I actually caused my old car (box-type fiat panda replica) to drift by stamping on the brakes when the tires were near the limit. Weight shifted away from the rear and woop woop, dori-dori 40 bhp.
Then again, that's all most people ( = incompetent drivers) do when something goes wrong. Understeer? Brake. Oversteer? Brake. Icy roads? Hell yeah hit that brake pedal like it just murdered your family.
I've even seen people brake when an ambulance was coming up speeding behind them, sirens and all. WTF. You want to get out of the bloody way, not wreck your car -and- possibly end someone's life by delaying the help that's underway to get to them.
That just as a sidenote.

I thought it was hilarious, really. They say you can feel if the front is hydroplaning. Well you can feel it in the back too, soo. And yes, most people can't drive. It's super annoying when you are on the highway and some a*****e causes a pile-up because they got on the brakes, in the rain, at 80 mph. I haven't driven on icy roads though. The closest I get to that here in Florida is borrowing my dad's truck and doing doughnuts in the walmart parking lot.

[buggsie blue]

R.J.W

zosh

R.J.W

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

How? Please explain because I see so much wrong with having better tires on the axle that doesn't brake or steer.

Because of stability.

Have you ever driven in snow? Or severe rain? I really don't want to go into details about this but you don't seem to understand. Whether the car is FWD, RWD, AWD, or 4WD... you want the grippiest tires, or tires with the most tread left in the REAR. In fact no reputable tire shop in the nation will install two winter tires on the front of any vehicle, be it FWD or any configuration. However tires should be rotated enough to where you NEVER have two bald tires, and two that are fine. Grippy front tires and low traction rears will make a car extremely unstable in the event of hydroplaning, on snow, ice, or just a wet road.

You should call up a tire shop and tell them you have 4 bald tires, and you can only afford two winter tires and you want them up front because the car is FWD and you're concerned about snow. Don't look up anything on the internet, call a place up and hear what they have to say.

funny that you should say that, my car actually came with winters on the front.
I quickly swapped those out for normal ones. Don't know what idiot puts soft winter rubber on the driven wheels of a car known to torque steer, but hey, luckily the thread is still deep and cut also in the seeps.

Also, yeah, I do understand, better than most. I've driven a lot and seen a lot.

Sadly, the populace can't drive worth s**t so for john doe it would indeed be the rears.
And anybody who hits snow or heavy rain with any tire that's worn diserves a slap for being suicidal.

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

[R.J.W]

buggsie blue

R.J.W

zosh

R.J.W

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

How? Please explain because I see so much wrong with having better tires on the axle that doesn't brake or steer.

Because of stability.

Have you ever driven in snow? Or severe rain? I really don't want to go into details about this but you don't seem to understand. Whether the car is FWD, RWD, AWD, or 4WD... you want the grippiest tires, or tires with the most tread left in the REAR. In fact no reputable tire shop in the nation will install two winter tires on the front of any vehicle, be it FWD or any configuration. However tires should be rotated enough to where you NEVER have two bald tires, and two that are fine. Grippy front tires and low traction rears will make a car extremely unstable in the event of hydroplaning, on snow, ice, or just a wet road.

You should call up a tire shop and tell them you have 4 bald tires, and you can only afford two winter tires and you want them up front because the car is FWD and you're concerned about snow. Don't look up anything on the internet, call a place up and hear what they have to say.

funny that you should say that, my car actually came with winters on the front.
I quickly swapped those out for normal ones. Don't know what idiot puts soft winter rubber on the driven wheels of a car known to torque steer, but hey, luckily the thread is still deep and cut also in the seeps.

Also, yeah, I do understand, better than most. I've driven a lot and seen a lot.

Sadly, the populace can't drive worth s**t so for john doe it would indeed be the rears.
And anybody who hits snow or heavy rain with any tire that's worn diserves a slap for being suicidal.

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

[buggsie blue]

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

zosh

R.J.W

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

How? Please explain because I see so much wrong with having better tires on the axle that doesn't brake or steer.

Because of stability.

Have you ever driven in snow? Or severe rain? I really don't want to go into details about this but you don't seem to understand. Whether the car is FWD, RWD, AWD, or 4WD... you want the grippiest tires, or tires with the most tread left in the REAR. In fact no reputable tire shop in the nation will install two winter tires on the front of any vehicle, be it FWD or any configuration. However tires should be rotated enough to where you NEVER have two bald tires, and two that are fine. Grippy front tires and low traction rears will make a car extremely unstable in the event of hydroplaning, on snow, ice, or just a wet road.

You should call up a tire shop and tell them you have 4 bald tires, and you can only afford two winter tires and you want them up front because the car is FWD and you're concerned about snow. Don't look up anything on the internet, call a place up and hear what they have to say.

funny that you should say that, my car actually came with winters on the front.
I quickly swapped those out for normal ones. Don't know what idiot puts soft winter rubber on the driven wheels of a car known to torque steer, but hey, luckily the thread is still deep and cut also in the seeps.

Also, yeah, I do understand, better than most. I've driven a lot and seen a lot.

Sadly, the populace can't drive worth s**t so for john doe it would indeed be the rears.
And anybody who hits snow or heavy rain with any tire that's worn diserves a slap for being suicidal.

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

Smooth and precise is what I try to be, but rarely ever happens. Especially 2nd gear. The only one that jerks so much, and I've tried being easy on it.
What kind of tracks do you race on? The only track near me is the straight quarter mile.

[R.J.W]

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

zosh

Because of stability.

Have you ever driven in snow? Or severe rain? I really don't want to go into details about this but you don't seem to understand. Whether the car is FWD, RWD, AWD, or 4WD... you want the grippiest tires, or tires with the most tread left in the REAR. In fact no reputable tire shop in the nation will install two winter tires on the front of any vehicle, be it FWD or any configuration. However tires should be rotated enough to where you NEVER have two bald tires, and two that are fine. Grippy front tires and low traction rears will make a car extremely unstable in the event of hydroplaning, on snow, ice, or just a wet road.

You should call up a tire shop and tell them you have 4 bald tires, and you can only afford two winter tires and you want them up front because the car is FWD and you're concerned about snow. Don't look up anything on the internet, call a place up and hear what they have to say.

funny that you should say that, my car actually came with winters on the front.
I quickly swapped those out for normal ones. Don't know what idiot puts soft winter rubber on the driven wheels of a car known to torque steer, but hey, luckily the thread is still deep and cut also in the seeps.

Also, yeah, I do understand, better than most. I've driven a lot and seen a lot.

Sadly, the populace can't drive worth s**t so for john doe it would indeed be the rears.
And anybody who hits snow or heavy rain with any tire that's worn diserves a slap for being suicidal.

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

Smooth and precise is what I try to be, but rarely ever happens. Especially 2nd gear. The only one that jerks so much, and I've tried being easy on it.
What kind of tracks do you race on? The only track near me is the straight quarter mile.

Second? Odd. Usually it's first gear that's quirky. What kind of car?

I've driven the tracks of Zandvoort, Assen, Oschersleben, Zolder (that track hates me, went there twice and twice i had a mechanical failure) and my favourite track in the world right now, Spa Francorchamps. That track is erotic.

[buggsie blue]

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

zosh

Because of stability.

Have you ever driven in snow? Or severe rain? I really don't want to go into details about this but you don't seem to understand. Whether the car is FWD, RWD, AWD, or 4WD... you want the grippiest tires, or tires with the most tread left in the REAR. In fact no reputable tire shop in the nation will install two winter tires on the front of any vehicle, be it FWD or any configuration. However tires should be rotated enough to where you NEVER have two bald tires, and two that are fine. Grippy front tires and low traction rears will make a car extremely unstable in the event of hydroplaning, on snow, ice, or just a wet road.

You should call up a tire shop and tell them you have 4 bald tires, and you can only afford two winter tires and you want them up front because the car is FWD and you're concerned about snow. Don't look up anything on the internet, call a place up and hear what they have to say.

funny that you should say that, my car actually came with winters on the front.
I quickly swapped those out for normal ones. Don't know what idiot puts soft winter rubber on the driven wheels of a car known to torque steer, but hey, luckily the thread is still deep and cut also in the seeps.

Also, yeah, I do understand, better than most. I've driven a lot and seen a lot.

Sadly, the populace can't drive worth s**t so for john doe it would indeed be the rears.
And anybody who hits snow or heavy rain with any tire that's worn diserves a slap for being suicidal.

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

Smooth and precise is what I try to be, but rarely ever happens. Especially 2nd gear. The only one that jerks so much, and I've tried being easy on it.
What kind of tracks do you race on? The only track near me is the straight quarter mile.

Second? Odd. Usually it's first gear that's quirky. What kind of car?

I've driven the tracks of Zandvoort, Assen, Oschersleben, Zolder (that track hates me, went there twice and twice i had a mechanical failure) and my favourite track in the world right now, Spa Francorchamps. That track is erotic.

It's a Chevy Cobalt Ls, 2007. I think 1st goes smooth for me, because when I first learned to drive, I used to always stall, so my dad made me sit in the drive way every day before we went out for a lesson and get used to the feel of the clutch grabbing.
Sounds nice. It would be so fun to go to a track a experiment with driving without the risk of some cop pulling you over, or going into a ditch.

[R.J.W]

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

Smooth and precise is what I try to be, but rarely ever happens. Especially 2nd gear. The only one that jerks so much, and I've tried being easy on it.
What kind of tracks do you race on? The only track near me is the straight quarter mile.

Second? Odd. Usually it's first gear that's quirky. What kind of car?

I've driven the tracks of Zandvoort, Assen, Oschersleben, Zolder (that track hates me, went there twice and twice i had a mechanical failure) and my favourite track in the world right now, Spa Francorchamps. That track is erotic.

It's a Chevy Cobalt Ls, 2007. I think 1st goes smooth for me, because when I first learned to drive, I used to always stall, so my dad made me sit in the drive way every day before we went out for a lesson and get used to the feel of the clutch grabbing.
Sounds nice. It would be so fun to go to a track a experiment with driving without the risk of some cop pulling you over, or going into a ditch.

So what's the problem with second gear really? When toes it jerk? When the clutch is engaged, or when it is still engaging? Or when you start to feed power into it? At what revs does it happen?

It is very addictive.

[buggsie blue]

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

R.J.W

buggsie blue

Is your car front-wheel drive, then? I have a dinky little cobalt, and that thing torque steers the piss out of itself if I want to avoid being rear ended at a stop when the a*****e behind be doesn't plan on slowing down...
Soo, for dohn doe, put 'em on the rear, and for people who can actually drive, put 'em on the front? (Sorry, read your other post, this one confused me a bit with this.)

My street car is front wheel driven yes, a toyota yaris. And yes it will torque steer when I am being a crude oaf with the right pedal. But yeah, I've been a racing driver for 7 years now, so I've learned to be smooth and precise with my pedal inputs. My track cars are a very understeered, almost to the level of astra vxr torque steer, volvo 360, that thing just hates to corner and a quite tailhappy but very rewarding if you get it right modified BMW E30, with the e36's 2.8 engine in it. The thing is a positive precision weapon that you really need to work. The wilwood brakes are precise, the clutch and throttle are both heavy, the steering is heavy since it hasn't got powersteering and is riding the widest slicks that will fit into a stock e30 body.

And yes, people who are actually awake and responsive will be able to cope with a twitchy back end when braking. I know this from experience and I'm not the only one I know that thinks this way.

Smooth and precise is what I try to be, but rarely ever happens. Especially 2nd gear. The only one that jerks so much, and I've tried being easy on it.
What kind of tracks do you race on? The only track near me is the straight quarter mile.

Second? Odd. Usually it's first gear that's quirky. What kind of car?

I've driven the tracks of Zandvoort, Assen, Oschersleben, Zolder (that track hates me, went there twice and twice i had a mechanical failure) and my favourite track in the world right now, Spa Francorchamps. That track is erotic.

It's a Chevy Cobalt Ls, 2007. I think 1st goes smooth for me, because when I first learned to drive, I used to always stall, so my dad made me sit in the drive way every day before we went out for a lesson and get used to the feel of the clutch grabbing.
Sounds nice. It would be so fun to go to a track a experiment with driving without the risk of some cop pulling you over, or going into a ditch.

So what's the problem with second gear really? When toes it jerk? When the clutch is engaged, or when it is still engaging? Or when you start to feed power into it? At what revs does it happen?

It is very addictive.

There isn't any real issue with second gear. It does this at all revs, but I think I'm letting go of the clutch too fast, or not giving it enough gas. It has that "dumped the clutch" jerk to it. If I go nice on it and really feel for when the clutch is grabbing it doesn't jerk at all. It only does this when I drive (dad still drives it every now and then, when his gf takes his truck).
I can imagine. It's addictive enough for me to take the turns on empty roads way faster than I should (except for when there's a cop sitting at the end of it).

[Crimmy Sun]

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

I dun really see that being a fact

Wouldn't that suggest the driving and guiding wheels on a FWD car would never have the most tread?
I can see there being huge problems in the rain, considering cars are engineered to bias towards understeer

[Burt Cocaine]

Better on the back if you can only get two but I recommend always getting4

[agent stalker bear]

you should have good tire all the way around but if for some reason your only replacing two tires the brand new tires should always be on the rear because the tires with more traction will improve your handling by reducing hydro planing and also because of a principal called thrust angle

essentially the rear axle of the vehicle in relation to the front is what determines where the vehicle will go so if you were to put your new wheels on the front sure the front would have good grip but if the rear happens to lose traction and slide for some reason your car is going in the direction of the slide and all that grip in front wont have meant s**t because even on fwds the vehicle centerline is what ultimatly controls where your going your steering wheels just help you to tell the car you would like to go that direction

im a professional automotive tech at a dealership

[Cloud_Cookie]

buggsie blue

I really just want to know your opinions on this one. I think it's rear, because you don't want the rear end to slide out on wet surfaces. I understand that you should not be a moron and maybe rotate your tires every now and then, but me and my bro got in an argument with our dad. He says they go on front. 99% of the internet seems to disagree, along with pretty much 100% of car manufacturers, but I still see some arguments for the front here and there.
Edit: This is for the average driver. Someone like your mom who lets go of the steering wheel when she thinks she's oversteering....
On my car though, I agree with my dad.

You should get all 4 replaced generally at the same time.

[T38]

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

don't the front tires in fwd cars wear out faster than the rear ones? confused


as for tires, there was a time when i wanted to have wider tires at the front.

[R.J.W]

SmallFoot5

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

don't the front tires in fwd cars wear out faster than the rear ones? confused


as for tires, there was a time when i wanted to have wider tires at the front.

Depends, if you want to go quarter miling your honda civic or whatever you want drag slicks on the front and 2cv tires at the back, lol.

[T38]

R.J.W

SmallFoot5

zosh

Even if it's FWD, the newest tires should absolutely be in the REAR. There's no debate or opinion to this.

don't the front tires in fwd cars wear out faster than the rear ones? confused


as for tires, there was a time when i wanted to have wider tires at the front.

Depends, if you want to go quarter miling your honda civic or whatever you want drag slicks on the front and 2cv tires at the back, lol.

not really.
i heard a rumor that wider front tires in a fwd car reduces torque steer.