Want to see changes in Guilds?

Should fixing and updating the Guilds be made top priority for a while?

Yes! We have been neglected for too long!	83.3%	[ 15 ]
Not necessarily top priority, but they definitely need some work done.	11.1%	[ 2 ]
I don't really care, I just like voting for gold.	0.0%	[ 0 ]
Not really. I don't like or use guilds at all.	0.0%	[ 0 ]
No. They are fine just the way that they are.	5.6%	[ 1 ]
Total Votes:			[ 18 ]

[A Kindred Spirit]

Let's face it, Guild's need some work done on them. While the rest of the site has been flourishing and changing so quickly, Guilds seem to be the underprivileged child: abandoned by the Gaia administrators and developers while the favored child (forums) have been spoiled beyond belief. A lot of people have stopped using guilds because of this treatment because, really, forums just work better.

Some of us, however, still prefer guilds, and want to see them working just as well as the rest of the site. Discuss here some of the changes that you think are necessary, or some of the things you would just like to see. I hope that someone will take note of this thread, and maybe one day soon start fixing the guilds so that they can work to their full potential.

Continued from Guilds Homepage Revamp FIX Thread

Some discussion ideas:

+Guild Account: What to do with the money people donate?
+Subforums: Can we find a way to delete/rearrange them? Rearranging without having to move/delete every thread beforehand
+Member List: Banning/Deleting/Promoting/Demoting people (Have a temp/perm ban in place, make a difference between deleting and banning someone); Online Status of members; etc.
+Announcements: Don't bunch them in with the rest of the Notices? Be able to preview them and use links in them; increase character count (too short!)
+Notices and Subscriptions: Get notices when you're quoted in guilds and be able to subscribe to threads just like in forums
+Quick Reply: Add quickreply to posting in guild forums
+Crew: Set specific restrictions on individual crew members; send a PM so people can accept/decline an offer to be promoted; allow VC's to demote themselves or quit the guild if they want; more crew titles (i.e. Helper, Moderator, Co-Captain, etc.)
+Home Page: Allow preview before submitting

Feel free to stray from any of this and come up with new ideas, but these are just a few topics that were brought up in the other thread.

[Skyedivin]

o-KARMA-o

+Guild Account: What to do with the money people donate?
+Subforums: Can we find a way to delete/rearrange them? Rearranging without having to move/delete every thread beforehand
+Member List: Banning/Deleting/Promoting/Demoting people (Have a temp/perm ban in place, make a difference between deleting and banning someone); Online Status of members; etc.
+Announcements: Don't bunch them in with the rest of the Notices? Be able to preview them and use links in them; increase character count (too short!)
+Notices and Subscriptions: Get notices when you're quoted in guilds and be able to subscribe to threads just like in forums
+Quick Reply: Add quickreply to posting in guild forums
+Crew: Set specific restrictions on individual crew members; send a PM so people can accept/decline an offer to be promoted; allow VC's to demote themselves or quit the guild if they want; more crew titles (i.e. Helper, Moderator, Co-Captain, etc.)
+Home Page: Allow preview before submitting

Feel free to stray from any of this and come up with new ideas, but these are just a few topics that were brought up in the other thread.

With the member list, if Gaia wants us to keep a list of people we've banned/deleted, I think we should at least get a separate list for them so they're not mixed in with the active members.

Definitely allow previewing of announcements and homepages and definitely increase the character count on announcements - like I said in the other thread, I feel like I'm texting members. At least don't count bbcode toward total count or give it a separate count, like with signatures. Giving announcements their own little notice at the top of the page, like with requests and PMs would be great (I also miss getting those about profile comments!!) and basically, I agree with all of this!

Another thing that I think would be a great feature to add is letting people edit their own posts. I'm pretty sure you can't edit your own posts unless you're crew... (It's still like that, isn't it?)

[Toxic Friday]

o-KARMA-o

+Crew: Set specific restrictions on individual crew members; send a PM so people can accept/decline an offer to be promoted; allow VC's to demote themselves or quit the guild if they want; more crew titles (i.e. Helper, Moderator, Co-Captain, etc.)

This may be my favorite idea. I would love to add the crew titles, I hate how our guild moderators are called "crew" or "catpain" and "vice captain'. I would prefer it to be Guild Moderator or just Moderator, and a "catpain" an "owner".

I would love for gaia to let us have not one guild owner, but two! Then the other owner could take over if the other one becomes un-active.

Great ideas! These guilds need major updates and fast!

[Mezri]

More suggestions: (though you have already said some of them mine are grouped in similar categories to make it easy peasy to read...)

Donation gold:
Make a button to donate to the guild with a warning about not getting a refund.
Make a button to donate to a guild mule. (Configured in the guild settings IE: mule name)
Be able to disable donations when there gets to be too much gold.
Be able to remove gold from the guild account.
Delete and, rearrange sub-forums.

Promotions and ranks
Have a co-captain rank.
Group as to what they can/can not do.
Have more ranks like: moderators and, helpers etc.
Make it possible to have the choice to kick OR ban a guild member.
Allow or disallow crew from certain actions individually...
(or at least, be able to edit the whole group.)

Other members and self
Be able to subscribe to threads.
Show online status of users.
Get a notice when you get quoted in the guilds.
Input a warning system for guild members and crew.
Make people have to accept promotions. (not all members want more responsibility)

Layout and whole guild communication
Allow preview before submitting the homepage.
Preview announcements and please let us use links.
Make announcements more obvious and, more usable.
Have two separate sections for crew and vice captains on the first page.


Demyki also had a good suggestion about the sub-forum layout;
I agree if it was possible with being able to expand/shrink the categories. (limited to maybe 5 topics per category so it does not get too crazy for masses of sub-forums filled with topics.)

Demyki

[Cheeva Beruvain]

Hope springs eternal that we get a dev to actually come and discuss this.

Guild Account - what about a simple option for the Captain to turn the donate button on or off to restrict when people donate? Reinstating the Guild Announcements in the Header Bubble would also help with this issue as well as be a goldsink

Subforums - while I have not had the issue of needing to move subforums, I can see how this would be a pain and that it would be needed. I agree that a way to delete them would be very helpful too. Especially if you buy a "second-hand" Guild and you don't need the amount of subforums that already exist.

Members List - I think we definitely need more options thatn a simple ban/promote. As has been said, in some cases banning is too harsh (ie: inactivity) and in other cases simply deleting someone isn't harsh enough. And, in other cases the permanent ban is too harsh. So introducing a delete and a temporary ban option would be prudent. The temporary ban could allow the Guild Captain and/or crew to input the number of days the ban needs to run and the member can be reinstated automatically after that period, without having to reapply for the guild. An option to see the online status would also be helpful to judge inactivity.

Announcements - I agree with everything listed, though I think a limit should be placed on them (ie: one announcement per week) so the announcement system is not abused. Othat than that I have little to add but my perplexity that they were made redundant in the first place - especially since they were a hard won feature that Guilds had requested for a long time - for a system that is bug-filled and illogically convoluted.

Notices and Subscriptions - Yes please! While in my RPing Guilds, we do not allow quoting (it tends to clutter the thread too much and we only allow it in certain circumstances) I would love to be able to subscribe to a guild thread. Could we also add the option to input a page number, like it was proposed for the Forums, so you can skip quickly to a certain page?

Crew - all those proposals sound fine. I like the idea of different titles, too. Though perhaps limit them so it doesn't become confusing? Say a "Captain", a "Vice Captain/Second-in-command", a "Crew/Moderators", then "Helpers/Minor Moderators" for specific sections if the Guild is big enough?

Editing - Allow the Captain to decide if members can edit their posts or not? While editing is usually necessary in an RP, in a larger Guild, like a chatterbox one, I don't think it's necessary? I'm open to people arguing with me, though xd

Multiple Guild Owners - I think this is a good idea. Especially if a large Guild loses it's owner, they need soemone who can easily take over without having to be promoted into the position. Limiting it to two, though, I think would be prudent.

Layout - I really like how clean Demyki's layout is and how nice and simple it is. It has my vote, most definitely. It would be nice to dviide the subforums into sections like that.

Warning System - I would like this. Rather than PMs, I like the idea of a inbuilt warning system so that the entire crew can see what sort of warning a member has been given, should there be debate or argument. Perhaps, if the coding isn't too difficult, a member get's automatically banned should they get, say, three warnings

[Skyedivin]

Mezri

More suggestions: (though you have already said some of them mine are grouped in similar categories to make it easy peasy to read...)

Donation gold:
Make a button to donate to the guild with a warning about not getting a refund.
Make a button to donate to a guild mule. (Configured in the guild settings IE: mule name)
Be able to disable donations when there gets to be too much gold.
Be able to remove gold from the guild account.
Delete and, rearrange sub-forums.

Promotions and ranks
Have a co-captain rank.
Group as to what they can/can not do.
Have more ranks like: moderators and, helpers etc.
Make it possible to have the choice to kick OR ban a guild member.
Allow or disallow crew from certain actions individually...
(or at least, be able to edit the whole group.)

Other members and self
Be able to subscribe to threads.
Show online status of users.
Get a notice when you get quoted in the guilds.
Input a warning system for guild members and crew.
Make people have to accept promotions. (not all members want more responsibility)

Layout and whole guild communication
Allow preview before submitting the homepage.
Preview announcements and please let us use links.
Make announcements more obvious and, more usable.
Have two separate sections for crew and vice captains on the first page.


Demyki also had a good suggestion about the sub-forum layout;
I agree if it was possible with being able to expand/shrink the categories. (limited to maybe 5 topics per category so it does not get too crazy for masses of sub-forums filled with topics.)

Demyki

Yes to all of the above. Another thing with the subforums, I think it would be nice if that subforum box was on the top of all the subforums - not just the main forum. I hate always having to return to the main forum to get to another.

[Skyedivin]

Cheeva Catkin

Hope springs eternal that we get a dev to actually come and discuss this.

Announcements - I agree with everything listed, though I think a limit should be placed on them (ie: one announcement per week) so the announcement system is not abused. Othat than that I have little to add but my perplexity that they were made redundant in the first place - especially since they were a hard won feature that Guilds had requested for a long time - for a system that is bug-filled and illogically convoluted.

Editing - Allow the Captain to decide if members can edit their posts or not? While editing is usually necessary in an RP, in a larger Guild, like a chatterbox one, I don't think it's necessary? I'm open to people arguing with me, though xd

Warning System - I would like this. Rather than PMs, I like the idea of a inbuilt warning system so that the entire crew can see what sort of warning a member has been given, should there be debate or argument. Perhaps, if the coding isn't too difficult, a member get's automatically banned should they get, say, three warnings

With the announcements - I think the one per week limit is rather long... There's already a one per day limit, and I find that to be sufficient. If members don't want to be bothered by the announcement, they don't have to read them, even if we would prefer that they do.

With allowing editing of posts, I like the idea of letting the captain decide that! Of course, I'd let members edit away in my guild, but I can definitely see how some captains wouldn't want members to.

Regarding the warning system, I think that's a wonderful idea, and I think there should be a way to "save" warnings, so you have standardized warnings that you can copy, paste and fill in a few blanks and then send it. So then you could click "Send warning" and then click "Inactivity warning" or "Inappropriate Behavior warning" or something and have a pre-typed message that would be captain-approved and available for all crew members capable of sending warnings to use. I think that would reduce the likelihood of crew members abusing the warning system.

Oh, and another thought - would there be a way to hide crew subforums? I think it could get irritating for members to always see the crew subforum. Just have it be visible for those who can access it - why torture them with something they can't have? biggrin Plus, it would reduce clutter on their end without making a difference on our end.

[Cheeva Beruvain]

Skyedivin

Cheeva Catkin

Hope springs eternal that we get a dev to actually come and discuss this.

Announcements - I agree with everything listed, though I think a limit should be placed on them (ie: one announcement per week) so the announcement system is not abused. Othat than that I have little to add but my perplexity that they were made redundant in the first place - especially since they were a hard won feature that Guilds had requested for a long time - for a system that is bug-filled and illogically convoluted.

Editing - Allow the Captain to decide if members can edit their posts or not? While editing is usually necessary in an RP, in a larger Guild, like a chatterbox one, I don't think it's necessary? I'm open to people arguing with me, though xd

Warning System - I would like this. Rather than PMs, I like the idea of a inbuilt warning system so that the entire crew can see what sort of warning a member has been given, should there be debate or argument. Perhaps, if the coding isn't too difficult, a member get's automatically banned should they get, say, three warnings

With the announcements - I think the one per week limit is rather long... There's already a one per day limit, and I find that to be sufficient. If members don't want to be bothered by the announcement, they don't have to read them, even if we would prefer that they do.

With allowing editing of posts, I like the idea of letting the captain decide that! Of course, I'd let members edit away in my guild, but I can definitely see how some captains wouldn't want members to.

Regarding the warning system, I think that's a wonderful idea, and I think there should be a way to "save" warnings, so you have standardized warnings that you can copy, paste and fill in a few blanks and then send it. So then you could click "Send warning" and then click "Inactivity warning" or "Inappropriate Behavior warning" or something and have a pre-typed message that would be captain-approved and available for all crew members capable of sending warnings to use. I think that would reduce the likelihood of crew members abusing the warning system.

Oh, and another thought - would there be a way to hide crew subforums? I think it could get irritating for members to always see the crew subforum. Just have it be visible for those who can access it - why torture them with something they can't have? biggrin Plus, it would reduce clutter on their end without making a difference on our end.

With the editing, I agree. I wouldn't limit my members but I can see it would be prudent in some forums. Especially if someone is causing trouble and tries to edit their post to remove the proof. Or, barring that, perhaps a editing window - that after, say, five/ten minutes you can't go back and edit if you're a member? I know a few forums do that.

Ooh, I like the idea of standarised warnings! Especially if you have a crew member sending a warning to a member that they, perhaps, have a personal issue with. That way the warning is clinical and neither side can accuse the other of being biased, as you mentioned.

Actually, I've been wondering why crew forums are universally visual, rather than just crew-only. It really would seem better to have the crew forum viewable by the crew only.

As to the guild limit, I only brought it up because in a Site Feedback thread, a Guild Member told us that some Captains do abuse the Announcement feature. And I can see where it would get frustrating if you're in a large number of guilds and they are all sending - often inconsequential - announcements, daily. Maybe, since for some guilds the week would be too long, if you need to send an announcement urgently either the same day or next, the price for the announcement is higher? Maybe that would deter people from sending so many announcements for frivolous reasons? Then the second day, the announcement price would return to normal?

[Skyedivin]

Cheeva Catkin

As to the guild limit, I only brought it up because in a Site Feedback thread, a Guild Member told us that some Captains do abuse the Announcement feature. And I can see where it would get frustrating if you're in a large number of guilds and they are all sending - often inconsequential - announcements, daily. Maybe, since for some guilds the week would be too long, if you need to send an announcement urgently either the same day or next, the price for the announcement is higher? Maybe that would deter people from sending so many announcements for frivolous reasons? Then the second day, the announcement price would return to normal?

I love that idea! Having an override option available at extra cost would be wonderful. Or if Gaia could create a priority system, where captains can say, everyone has to read this so it's a 5 or be like this is kind of inconsequential so it's only a 1 and then members can set their preferences to only receive announcements that are rated as 5s or 3s and up. Or something. That'd probably be too complicated though... And I'm sure some captains would make all their announcements a 5... So I suppose this might have just been completely pointless. biggrin

[Cheeva Beruvain]

Skyedivin

I love that idea! Having an override option available at extra cost would be wonderful. Or if Gaia could create a priority system, where captains can say, everyone has to read this so it's a 5 or be like this is kind of inconsequential so it's only a 1 and then members can set their preferences to only receive announcements that are rated as 5s or 3s and up. Or something. That'd probably be too complicated though... And I'm sure some captains would make all their announcements a 5... So I suppose this might have just been completely pointless. biggrin

Well, if we wanted to go with a priority system, what if you worked the pricing system into that? Say, to send a level 5 message you would need to pay more than sending a level 1 message. And the ability for members to choose the level of announcement they get might possibly be worked into the current notification system? This way might be more complicated, however.

[Skyedivin]

Cheeva Catkin

Skyedivin

I love that idea! Having an override option available at extra cost would be wonderful. Or if Gaia could create a priority system, where captains can say, everyone has to read this so it's a 5 or be like this is kind of inconsequential so it's only a 1 and then members can set their preferences to only receive announcements that are rated as 5s or 3s and up. Or something. That'd probably be too complicated though... And I'm sure some captains would make all their announcements a 5... So I suppose this might have just been completely pointless. biggrin

Well, if we wanted to go with a priority system, what if you worked the pricing system into that? Say, to send a level 5 message you would need to pay more than sending a level 1 message. And the ability for members to choose the level of announcement they get might possibly be worked into the current notification system? This way might be more complicated, however.

Or charge more for the more pointless messages that most people won't care about? The only problem with the priority system is that the person who's writing it decides the priority, so if they want to spam members with lots of unimportant messages, they could still mark them as important and it would go through... And having someone second the priority could take too much time... Idk. Good idea, just complicated. Very complicated. biggrin

[Mezri]

Skyedivin

Yes to all of the above. Another thing with the subforums, I think it would be nice if that subforum box was on the top of all the subforums - not just the main forum. I hate always having to return to the main forum to get to another.

That would be awesome!

Skyedivin

Regarding the warning system, I think that's a wonderful idea, and I think there should be a way to "save" warnings, so you have standardized warnings that you can copy, paste and fill in a few blanks and then send it. So then you could click "Send warning" and then click "Inactivity warning" or "Inappropriate Behavior warning" or something and have a pre-typed message that would be captain-approved and available for all crew members capable of sending warnings to use. I think that would reduce the likelihood of crew members abusing the warning system.

Oh, and another thought - would there be a way to hide crew subforums? I think it could get irritating for members to always see the crew subforum. Just have it be visible for those who can access it - why torture them with something they can't have? biggrin Plus, it would reduce clutter on their end without making a difference on our end.

Yes and yes, I totally agree!

[Mezri]

Also, there is a big group forming to support "the protest" for guilds. For a link; click on the image in my signature.

[A Kindred Spirit]

@Mezri:

Pretty much this. I just didn't have the time to put it all in before going to work. sweatdrop

Except the subforum layout. I can see that being too complicated. And, if we can rearrange subforums, then it should be able to act as a sort of organizational system in and of itself. Then again, I suppose that depends on what kind of guild it is.

@Sky: I haven't had any problems editting my own posts in guilds. Ever. Also, I totally agree with you about having the subforums at the top of all of the forums, not just the main forum. Or, perhaps, have the subs moved to the bottom of the page in each forum, that way you don't have to scroll down to check out what's in each forum every time.

@Cheeva and pretty much anyone else:

Guild Account: Pretty much the same stuff people have been complaining about for...ever since the beginning of time. -.- Sad, but true, hopefully more gets done on that.

Subforum Stuffs: I think it was mentioned in the other thread, what are your guys' thoughts on selling back subforums you want to get rid of? Deleting them would be cool, I guess, but I would rather keep the empty space just in case instead of toss it away. If, maybe, they gave you like 1250g back, just like with the half-price sell-back of items, it would have more of a purpose for people as well?

Member List/Banning: I was thinking maybe having a ban button and a delete button. Delete would obviously just delete the person from the guild, and they would be sent a notification like, "Sorry, but BLAHBLAHBLAH Guilds has deleted you from their memberlist for the following reason [insert text here]". The ban button would keep that member in a seperate portion of the member list, with the red letters or something of that nature across the information next to their name. Sort of like a built-in blacklist. If banned, a member would be unable to post in the guild at all, and the ban could be lifted anytime. This would solve a couple of problems I've noticed. ONE: If someone gets perma-banned from a guild, and then that guild gets sold, the new owner is going to want a way to lift the ban from all of the people the previous owner banned most likely. TWO: It would make it so you only have to have one button for the temp/perm banning, and it can be a customized amount of time. This will save a lot of time for the dev's in coding and what not, and also be a lot easier for members to use, as well as making it easier for people to see who is blacklisted (and possibly why?)

Announcements: I don't think one announcement per week would be a good idea. I definitely understand what it's like having a million stupid announcements to weed through from a bunch of guilds every day, but... While, for some guilds, it is rather irritating that they have announcements every day, sometimes it is necessary. As a guild captain (on a different account), during events or important changes to the guild, I sometimes find it necessary to send an announcement three times a week maximum. So, I believe that the daily limit is good. I also kind of like your idea of paying a little extra to send so many of them, because people shouldn't have to do that every day in most cases, and it would probably deter people from sending announcements every day like "HI GAIZ COME POST MOAR I MISS YOOO" I kinda dig the idea of having a priority ranking on them too. Something like Low/Med/High. Low priority ones could stay in notices, Medium and High could have their own little announcement red flag thingy back. smile However, the character limit is a little strict. Being able to put links in the announcements would make things MUCH easier as well.

Notices/Subs: Yes, I think that one of the most important changes they could make for guilds right now would be the Thread Subscription Feature. I think that the fact that it's absent in guilds is one of the main reasons why many people won't use them. I know that I stopped RPing in a lot of the guilds I was in before that were super active because it was impossible to find what I was looking for, or I would forget which threads I had been posting in in the OOC forums. Subscriptions would be Great. Adding this to the regular notification system would be an obvious thing, of course.

Crew: Yeah, I agree. Though, tbh, I don't think it's nearly as important a fix as the others.

Editing: Wait, you guys can't edit your own posts in guilds? 0.0 I can, however, understand not wanting someone to be able to delete/edit their posts if they are causing trouble. However, in RP's, it could get annoying not being able to adit your posts, if you make a mistake and someone points it out to you after the post. Hm, I suppose I would then agree with the crew making the decision whether or not they'd want their members to edit.

Co-Captain: I think it's a really good idea, especially since in a lot of the guilds I have been in a Captain goes AWOL very easily. Even if the VC is around, there are some decisions that can really only be made by a Captain. Have a CC and that would pretty much fix it while the other is on leave.

Warning System: Hm, I hadn't thought of the idea that it would be necessary for that. I like this too. It would show up in the crew log and everything, so that would actually make things much more simple than the PM-based thing. I also like the idea of the "standardized" warning thing, but I don't think it would be necessary. It's pretty easy to type out a reason most of the time. I think, though, that warnings should be given by higher ranking members only. Not just crew, but possibly VC's and up only. So, since this is bound to vary in different guilds, there would probably have to be a way to incorporate this into the editing of what certain crew members can and can't do.

Crew Forums: OMG I didn't even think of that. I totally agree with having them hidden to everyone but crew.

[Zane Donovan]

Wow thanks for showing me this place. This is great for sharing my idea for Guild Chatrooms.
Guild Chatrooms