KusanagiRyu
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- Posted: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:14:16 +0000
I've seen some people talk about games with god cards, and not even get the effects right(Especialy Ra's). So, I'm starting this thread for those who want to play the God cards, and have something to contribute in terms of rulings on them so that we may come out with a difinitive rule set for them.
Obviously, the ruling incongruity in the Manga should be disregaurded. YES, the God Cards CAN BE TARGETED. If you want to play by the Thousand Rules Bible version, then it's much simpler. So, we have the following for rules that apply to all of the God Cards -
The effects of Magic, Trap, and Monster cards that effect the God Cards only last until the end of the turn(including revival cards and the effects of God Cards).
The God Cards cannot be destroyed by effects that destroy cards.(See the Mirror Force example)
There is no precedent for the God Cards being removed from play by an effect - so, were a Obelisk Bottomless Trap Hole'd, would it return at the end of the turn?
Control of the cards cards cannot be changed.
As you can see, Marik scoffs at Yugi when Yugi puts Brain Control into play. If you watch the anime( or read the manga rather than a summary), he says something to the effect of the Gods being to strong to control.
Also, God Cards cannot be sacrificed for effects.
Extrapolated Rulings -God Cards can be removed from the game while face-up on the field(because it is not a destruction effect). Also, because the effect only effects them when it removes them from the game, they will not return at the end of the turn.
By the same token, God Cards can also be returned to a player's hand.
If a God Card is changed to face-down defense mode, they will not change to face-up attack mode at the end of the turn, because the effect only effects them when it changes their mode. However, in the case of Level Limit B, the God Card will change to defense mode when Level Limit B and not change back. But, after the turn of activation, the player will be free to change the mode of the God Card again.
While face down, a God Card is treated like any other card(it can be destroyed by an effect).
The God of Obelisk - Obelisk No Kyo Shin Hei - Obelisk the Divine Immense Soldier - Obelisk the Tormentor
Pretty straightforward. I think the wording could use some work, however.
"Sarifice 2 monsters to destroy all opposing monsters and attack the opponent's life points for 4000 damage."
or
"Sacrifice two monsters on your field. Destroy all opposing monster. After this, you automaticly enter your battle phase and must attack with Obelisk."
Still not perfect. . .in any case, it would seem Obelisk's effect is directly related to his attack(both being called God's Hand Crusher). So his effect counts as his attack for the turn.
Osiris the Saint Dragon God - Osiris no Tenkuu Ryu - Osiris the Saint Dragon - Slyfer the Sky Dragon
In theory, Summon Lightning Impact doesn't hit face down monsters.
It does hit any monster played face-up on the field, and if it doesn't destroy them, reduces they're attack/defense by 2000[that of whichever mode they're played in].
Example -
For those who ask "Why isn't Buster Blader at 600? Because 2600-2000=600.", it's because Buster Blader powered up by 500 points because Osiris is a Dragon.
Ra the Sun God Dragon - Ra no Yoku Shin Ryu - Ra the Divine Winged Dragon -
Now, what seems to be the most misunderstood of Ra's effects is this one.
I've seen people post it as this -
This is NOT an effect of Ra. The confusion about this probably comes from one of Marik's plays -
As you can see, Ra does NOT bring itself back into play.
Ra's other effects are pretty straightforward, and need little explanation.
Durring the Battle City Story arc in the manga, monsters couldn't attack the turn they were special summoned. Ra bypassed this rule and was able to attack the first turn. In the anime, this was demonstrated by Ra attacking when Malik summoned him despite Bakura's Field of Bitter Souls being in play.
Also, if Ra is sacrifice summoned, and then made face down, when it returns to face up, it's attack and defense will be reset [0/0]. However, if Ra is set instead of summoned, when it flips face up it will have the sum of the attack/defense of the monsters sacrificed to summon it.
Ra's God Pheonix ablitity(Pay 1000 Life Points to destroy a monster) can be used to destroy another God Card.
The Thousand Rule Bible
Up above, I posted the unofficial effects of the God Cards featured in the Thousand Rules Bible. They are, as translated by Edo(they would be in quote but the quote aren't working) -
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Obelisk for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). Sacrifice 2 Monsters -> When this Monster attacks during this turn, it attacks all of your opponent's Monsters at the same time and does 4000 points of direct damage to your opponent. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Osiris for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strength are each equal to 1000 times the number of cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent Normal Summons or Reverse Summons a Monster with an defense strength of 2000 or less, destroy it. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
The statistics for Ra were not included in the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, as Ra had not appeared in the comic at that point in time. However, the previous rules for the God cards and the usage in the comic can be ascertained easily.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strengths are each equal to the sum of the attack and defense strengths of the Monsters sacrificed to Summon it. Pay all but 1 of your Life Points -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strength each by the amount of Life Points you paid. Pay 1000 Life Points -> Destroy 1 of your opponent's Monsters on the Field. Sacrifice a Monster -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strengths each by the respective attack and defense strengths of the sacrifice Monster. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
If you play by this, everything is simplified. Gods simply can't be targeted, and things like Mirror Force and Lightning Vortex and Cyber Jar will destroyed them. But, by the same token, they will remain on the field if revived.
Questions, disputes?
Edo
Standard Usage of God Cards
There are certain guidelines that all of the God cards abide by. Regardless of the God card, they all follow some of the same basic rules.
Even though they are level 10, the God cards require you to sacrifice THREE Monsters to Summon them normally.
Magic cards, Trap cards and other Effects that affect the God card last only until the end of the turn.
(COMIC RULING: Raise Dead only revives a God card for one turn. At the end of the turn, it is placed back in the Cemetery.)
(EDO'S EXTRAPOLATE RULING: We can assume that other revival cards also only revive the God card for one turn.)
(COMIC RULING: "Damage" done to a God card also ends at the end of the current turn. This was demonstrated during the battle with Yugi and Kaiba, Yugi's Osiris used its Summon Lightning Impact on Obelisk, reducing its attack strength to 2000. At the end of the turn, it reverted back to 4000.)
(EDO'S EXTRAPOLATE RULING: We can guess that those effects that don't destroy the God card only last until the end of the turn. Any "attachments" are then destroyed (such as Equipment cards).)
(RULING INCONGRUITY: In the comic, it states that Magic effects only alter the God card until the end of the turn, and that Traps could not target them. However, Yugi's Hexagram Curse did in fact alter Osiris card until the end of the turn, even though it is a Trap card. This ruling is not consistent. However, this is slightly consistent with an animated series episode when Kaiba attacks with Obelisk, and one of his opponents activated a Mirror Force. Obelisk punched right through the Mirror Force without any ill effects.)
(VIDEO GAME RULING: Destruction effects, whether they are Monster, Magic or Trap-based (even when played by their controlled), DO NOT affect a God card. However, God cards CAN still be powered-down.)
CARD GAME RULING: In the true card game, the God cards are of the God Main-Type and the Phantom Beast Sub-Type.
VIDEO GAME RULING: In the video games where the God cards can be played (DM4, 7 and cool , Obelisk is a Warrior Sub-Type, Osiris is a Dragon Sub-Type, and Ra is a Machine Sub-Type.
There are certain guidelines that all of the God cards abide by. Regardless of the God card, they all follow some of the same basic rules.
Even though they are level 10, the God cards require you to sacrifice THREE Monsters to Summon them normally.
Magic cards, Trap cards and other Effects that affect the God card last only until the end of the turn.
(COMIC RULING: Raise Dead only revives a God card for one turn. At the end of the turn, it is placed back in the Cemetery.)
(EDO'S EXTRAPOLATE RULING: We can assume that other revival cards also only revive the God card for one turn.)
(COMIC RULING: "Damage" done to a God card also ends at the end of the current turn. This was demonstrated during the battle with Yugi and Kaiba, Yugi's Osiris used its Summon Lightning Impact on Obelisk, reducing its attack strength to 2000. At the end of the turn, it reverted back to 4000.)
(EDO'S EXTRAPOLATE RULING: We can guess that those effects that don't destroy the God card only last until the end of the turn. Any "attachments" are then destroyed (such as Equipment cards).)
(RULING INCONGRUITY: In the comic, it states that Magic effects only alter the God card until the end of the turn, and that Traps could not target them. However, Yugi's Hexagram Curse did in fact alter Osiris card until the end of the turn, even though it is a Trap card. This ruling is not consistent. However, this is slightly consistent with an animated series episode when Kaiba attacks with Obelisk, and one of his opponents activated a Mirror Force. Obelisk punched right through the Mirror Force without any ill effects.)
(VIDEO GAME RULING: Destruction effects, whether they are Monster, Magic or Trap-based (even when played by their controlled), DO NOT affect a God card. However, God cards CAN still be powered-down.)
CARD GAME RULING: In the true card game, the God cards are of the God Main-Type and the Phantom Beast Sub-Type.
VIDEO GAME RULING: In the video games where the God cards can be played (DM4, 7 and cool , Obelisk is a Warrior Sub-Type, Osiris is a Dragon Sub-Type, and Ra is a Machine Sub-Type.
Obviously, the ruling incongruity in the Manga should be disregaurded. YES, the God Cards CAN BE TARGETED. If you want to play by the Thousand Rules Bible version, then it's much simpler. So, we have the following for rules that apply to all of the God Cards -
The effects of Magic, Trap, and Monster cards that effect the God Cards only last until the end of the turn(including revival cards and the effects of God Cards).
The God Cards cannot be destroyed by effects that destroy cards.(See the Mirror Force example)
There is no precedent for the God Cards being removed from play by an effect - so, were a Obelisk Bottomless Trap Hole'd, would it return at the end of the turn?
Control of the cards cards cannot be changed.
Edo
Yugi reveals that his target had been the Slime all along. He activates "Brain Control". Malik laughs, thinking that he is going to try and gain control of Osiris. Yugi gains control of the Slime as it is reforming. Since it has come back into play, Malik draws three cards.
As you can see, Marik scoffs at Yugi when Yugi puts Brain Control into play. If you watch the anime( or read the manga rather than a summary), he says something to the effect of the Gods being to strong to control.
Edo
Bakura can only stand there in shock as Osiris appears before him. Malik consoles Bakura that he has put up a good fight, but one hit from Osiris will end the duel. Bakura tries to get the Marionette to possess Osiris, but God cards cannot be possessed.
Also, God Cards cannot be sacrificed for effects.
Edo
This brings Ra back onto the Field. Malik chants Hieratic, combining with Ra again (Ra's attack 699, M's LP: 1).
Yugi has been waiting for that, so he activates a card.
SOUL TAKER
Magic
Sacrifice an opponent's Monster. That player gains 1000 Life Points.
Ra disappears into a vortex of black energy into the sky, but appears back on the Field shortly thereafter. He states that Ra can't be sacrificed through effects.
Yugi has been waiting for that, so he activates a card.
SOUL TAKER
Magic
Sacrifice an opponent's Monster. That player gains 1000 Life Points.
Ra disappears into a vortex of black energy into the sky, but appears back on the Field shortly thereafter. He states that Ra can't be sacrificed through effects.
Extrapolated Rulings -God Cards can be removed from the game while face-up on the field(because it is not a destruction effect). Also, because the effect only effects them when it removes them from the game, they will not return at the end of the turn.
By the same token, God Cards can also be returned to a player's hand.
If a God Card is changed to face-down defense mode, they will not change to face-up attack mode at the end of the turn, because the effect only effects them when it changes their mode. However, in the case of Level Limit B, the God Card will change to defense mode when Level Limit B and not change back. But, after the turn of activation, the player will be free to change the mode of the God Card again.
While face down, a God Card is treated like any other card(it can be destroyed by an effect).
The God of Obelisk - Obelisk No Kyo Shin Hei - Obelisk the Divine Immense Soldier - Obelisk the Tormentor
Edo
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Obelisk for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). Sacrifice 2 Monsters -> When this Monster attacks during this turn, it attacks all of your opponent's Monsters at the same time and does 4000 points of direct damage to your opponent. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). Sacrifice 2 Monsters -> When this Monster attacks during this turn, it attacks all of your opponent's Monsters at the same time and does 4000 points of direct damage to your opponent. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
Pretty straightforward. I think the wording could use some work, however.
"Sarifice 2 monsters to destroy all opposing monsters and attack the opponent's life points for 4000 damage."
or
"Sacrifice two monsters on your field. Destroy all opposing monster. After this, you automaticly enter your battle phase and must attack with Obelisk."
Still not perfect. . .in any case, it would seem Obelisk's effect is directly related to his attack(both being called God's Hand Crusher). So his effect counts as his attack for the turn.
Osiris the Saint Dragon God - Osiris no Tenkuu Ryu - Osiris the Saint Dragon - Slyfer the Sky Dragon
Edo
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Osiris for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strength are each equal to 1000 times the number of cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent Normal Summons or Reverse Summons a Monster with an defense strength of 2000 or less, destroy it. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strength are each equal to 1000 times the number of cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent Normal Summons or Reverse Summons a Monster with an defense strength of 2000 or less, destroy it. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
In theory, Summon Lightning Impact doesn't hit face down monsters.
It does hit any monster played face-up on the field, and if it doesn't destroy them, reduces they're attack/defense by 2000[that of whichever mode they're played in].
Example -
Edo
Yugi plays "Raise Dead" and brings Buster Blader back into playin Attack mode. Malik can't believe it.
Battle 176: God Change?!
Since Blader was brought back into play, Malik draws three cards, bringing Osiris to 13000. Osiris' effect reduces Blader's attack
to 1100.
Battle 176: God Change?!
Since Blader was brought back into play, Malik draws three cards, bringing Osiris to 13000. Osiris' effect reduces Blader's attack
to 1100.
For those who ask "Why isn't Buster Blader at 600? Because 2600-2000=600.", it's because Buster Blader powered up by 500 points because Osiris is a Dragon.
Ra the Sun God Dragon - Ra no Yoku Shin Ryu - Ra the Divine Winged Dragon -
Edo
The statistics for Ra were not included in the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, as Ra had not appeared in the comic at that point in time. However, the previous rules for the God cards and the usage in the comic can be ascertained easily.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strengths are each equal to the sum of the attack and defense strengths of the Monsters sacrificed to Summon it. Pay all but 1 of your Life Points -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strength each by the amount of Life Points you paid. Pay 1000 Life Points -> Destroy 1 of your opponent's Monsters on the Field. Sacrifice a Monster -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strengths each by the respective attack and defense strengths of the sacrifice Monster. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strengths are each equal to the sum of the attack and defense strengths of the Monsters sacrificed to Summon it. Pay all but 1 of your Life Points -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strength each by the amount of Life Points you paid. Pay 1000 Life Points -> Destroy 1 of your opponent's Monsters on the Field. Sacrifice a Monster -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strengths each by the respective attack and defense strengths of the sacrifice Monster. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
Now, what seems to be the most misunderstood of Ra's effects is this one.
Edo
Pay all but 1 of your Life Points -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strength each by the amount of Life Points you paid.
I've seen people post it as this -
Quote:
When this monster is destroyed and sent to the graveyard you may special summon it at the end of turn and pay all your life points but one to increase this card's attack by that amount.
This is NOT an effect of Ra. The confusion about this probably comes from one of Marik's plays -
Edo
Malik draws, and activates Raise Dead. Ra is summoned back into play. He pays 1000 Life Points (M's LP: 700) and turns Ra into a phoenix, which is its God Phoenix ability. It rushes at Obelisk.
Obelisk begins to be burned to a cinder, but Yugi activates a card. But Yugi's OWN Raise Dead raised Osiris, putting it in the way of Ra. Osiris falls, and Obelisk remains unhurt.
Ra once again goes to the Cemetery. But Malik has another plan up his sleeve.
BATTLE 274: SURPRISE ATTACK FROM THE DARKNESS!!
Malik gloats that a card in his hand will undoubtedly lead to Yugi's destruction.
At the same time, Rishid stumbles out of the Battle Ship, fully aware of what is going on at the top of the Duel Tower.
Malik plays his card.
SURPRISE ATTACK FROM THE DARKNESS
Magic
During the player's End Phase, he or she gets another Battle Phase. Monsters that were summoned and attacked during that turn can attack from the darkness.
This brings Ra back onto the Field. Malik chants Hieratic, combining with Ra again (Ra's attack 699, M's LP: 1).
Obelisk begins to be burned to a cinder, but Yugi activates a card. But Yugi's OWN Raise Dead raised Osiris, putting it in the way of Ra. Osiris falls, and Obelisk remains unhurt.
Ra once again goes to the Cemetery. But Malik has another plan up his sleeve.
BATTLE 274: SURPRISE ATTACK FROM THE DARKNESS!!
Malik gloats that a card in his hand will undoubtedly lead to Yugi's destruction.
At the same time, Rishid stumbles out of the Battle Ship, fully aware of what is going on at the top of the Duel Tower.
Malik plays his card.
SURPRISE ATTACK FROM THE DARKNESS
Magic
During the player's End Phase, he or she gets another Battle Phase. Monsters that were summoned and attacked during that turn can attack from the darkness.
This brings Ra back onto the Field. Malik chants Hieratic, combining with Ra again (Ra's attack 699, M's LP: 1).
As you can see, Ra does NOT bring itself back into play.
Ra's other effects are pretty straightforward, and need little explanation.
Durring the Battle City Story arc in the manga, monsters couldn't attack the turn they were special summoned. Ra bypassed this rule and was able to attack the first turn. In the anime, this was demonstrated by Ra attacking when Malik summoned him despite Bakura's Field of Bitter Souls being in play.
Also, if Ra is sacrifice summoned, and then made face down, when it returns to face up, it's attack and defense will be reset [0/0]. However, if Ra is set instead of summoned, when it flips face up it will have the sum of the attack/defense of the monsters sacrificed to summon it.
Ra's God Pheonix ablitity(Pay 1000 Life Points to destroy a monster) can be used to destroy another God Card.
The Thousand Rule Bible
Up above, I posted the unofficial effects of the God Cards featured in the Thousand Rules Bible. They are, as translated by Edo(they would be in quote but the quote aren't working) -
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Obelisk for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). Sacrifice 2 Monsters -> When this Monster attacks during this turn, it attacks all of your opponent's Monsters at the same time and does 4000 points of direct damage to your opponent. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
In the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, there was unofficial text that was given for Osiris for people that TRULY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT wanted to use them in games. It is as follows.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strength are each equal to 1000 times the number of cards in your hand. Whenever your opponent Normal Summons or Reverse Summons a Monster with an defense strength of 2000 or less, destroy it. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
The statistics for Ra were not included in the Japanese Thousand Rules Bible, as Ra had not appeared in the comic at that point in time. However, the previous rules for the God cards and the usage in the comic can be ascertained easily.
Requires you to sacrifice 3 Monsters to Summon (treated as a Special Summon). This Monster's attack and defense strengths are each equal to the sum of the attack and defense strengths of the Monsters sacrificed to Summon it. Pay all but 1 of your Life Points -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strength each by the amount of Life Points you paid. Pay 1000 Life Points -> Destroy 1 of your opponent's Monsters on the Field. Sacrifice a Monster -> Increase this Monster's attack and defense strengths each by the respective attack and defense strengths of the sacrifice Monster. This Monster cannot be the target of Monster, Magic or Trap effects.
If you play by this, everything is simplified. Gods simply can't be targeted, and things like Mirror Force and Lightning Vortex and Cyber Jar will destroyed them. But, by the same token, they will remain on the field if revived.
Questions, disputes?
