"Wait, I need to look that up, which book is it in?"

[Mega Vox]

Firstly, I start each campaign I run by telling all my players that I am a) not a good DM, at all. b) that I will frequently completely make things up. They are free to show me that -by the book- I did something wrong, but I don't care I am doing it this way. And c) that the vast majority of my campaign are almost entirely improv. If they have a problem with any of that, I'm probably not the DM for them.

I have recently been thinking of banning books from my game. I know that sounds dumb, but let me explain.

When I play, I have -written out- every statistic my character has, their inventory with anything located and weighted to the pound, and all their spells with all information related to it so that I don't NEED to look anything up in the books. Come to think of it, I do this for most of the NPCs in my games, I'm pretty much writing non-stop during my games to keep up with everyone the party meets.

What drives me mad is when the game comes to a grinding halt because the wizard decides to cast a spell that no one has ever heard of, taken from an obscure book. So he has to shuffle through a pile of books, try to figure out what book it is in, find it, and read the paragraph of text under the spell to see exactly what it does. By the time we get back to the battle, people have forgotten their initiative and everything has to slowly start back up again.

Or the remark, "Hey, I got this [insert magic item] games back, what does it do?" Now, this actually isn't a big deal as -unlike the spells- I have most of the items pretty well memorized. But still, why can't people write this stuff down on their inventory?

Pretty much, this is what I plan to do;

1) No books allowed at the table, at all.
2) If you can't remember what a spell does or how it works, I'll guess.
2a) If you don't like my guess, don't cast it. You can look it up after the game.
2b) If I don't have a clue, you can't cast it. Should have written it down.

Thoughts?

[Tralk]

When it comes to spellcasters, I write the page number and the book the spell is located in. Before it is my turn, I try to decide what I want to do ahead of time, so I can look up whatever spell I need to keep the turns flowing. Sometimes I change my mind last second, and have to do a quick lookup, but not always.


Now, "obscure spell no one has ever heard of" means one of two things. A: You don't read the books, or B: it's a third party source. In 3.5 and Pathfinder, there is a single book that compiles a ton of spells. They are core books, not third party, so I allow them in my games. However, if you're having problems with players using third party books, ban the ******** out of them.

[Mega Vox]

Tralk

When it comes to spellcasters, I write the page number and the book the spell is located in. Before it is my turn, I try to decide what I want to do ahead of time, so I can look up whatever spell I need to keep the turns flowing. Sometimes I change my mind last second, and have to do a quick lookup, but not always.


Now, "obscure spell no one has ever heard of" means one of two things. A: You don't read the books, or B: it's a third party source. In 3.5 and Pathfinder, there is a single book that compiles a ton of spells. They are core books, not third party, so I allow them in my games. However, if you're having problems with players using third party books, ban the ******** out of them.

I forgot to clarify, I run and play 2nd edition.

[Archaix_the_Ghast v2]

Wizards spend an hour every day opening their spellbook and memorizing their spells for that day. If they don't memorize it, they cannot cast that spell.

It makes sense that you hold the spellcasters in your party to the same regard. Make them memorize the spell, or else they can't remember how the spell is cast and can't use it.

[simetradon]

For tabletop games, I encourage players to have "cheat sheets", which have all their miscellaneous stuff written out.

For online games, I have the macros made for most things ahead of time, so all the player has to do is click on a button. Of course, I still encourage cheat sheets.

I mostly run Chaos 6010, and being one of the writers for the game, it gives me a bit of insight. It also gives me the ability to playtest new things, to make sure they work in a game environment, or if it needs revisions.

[LiaThistle]

Actually, after a point while DMing 3rd (way before the massive number of books came out), I pretty much adopted this rule:
You have one minute of real time to find and describe whatever spell you're using. If you can't, it fizzles. This applies to combat and everywhere else.
About a session later, I expanded this to all combat actions (where non-magic actions are simply turned into "waiting/hesitating" ). Turns out, that kind of rule makes combat speed up, as they start looking things up when it isn't their turn.

Additionally, back while I was still DMing 2nd ed, I had one player who went out and bought the DMG and the MC (MM for those who joined post 2nd ed), and brought the books to the table to look up anything he didn't know; he'd memorized the common items and monsters (I already had another player who was a DM, and also knew some of the items and monsters). After I banned the books at the table and it became obvious how many he'd memorized, I abandoned the books' items and monsters in favor of my own, and never had a player complain about it.

There is, however, a book with a ton of the spells listed in 2nd ed, but I don't remember the title of it, nor do I think it is remotely easy to find at this point in time.

[Dark-oneechan]

LiaThistle

Actually, after a point while DMing 3rd (way before the massive number of books came out), I pretty much adopted this rule:
You have one minute of real time to find and describe whatever spell you're using. If you can't, it fizzles. This applies to combat and everywhere else.
About a session later, I expanded this to all combat actions (where non-magic actions are simply turned into "waiting/hesitating" ). Turns out, that kind of rule makes combat speed up, as they start looking things up when it isn't their turn.

Additionally, back while I was still DMing 2nd ed, I had one player who went out and bought the DMG and the MC (MM for those who joined post 2nd ed), and brought the books to the table to look up anything he didn't know; he'd memorized the common items and monsters (I already had another player who was a DM, and also knew some of the items and monsters). After I banned the books at the table and it became obvious how many he'd memorized, I abandoned the books' items and monsters in favor of my own, and never had a player complain about it.

There is, however, a book with a ton of the spells listed in 2nd ed, but I don't remember the title of it, nor do I think it is remotely easy to find at this point in time.

Would love to steal that strategy for my groups if they ever become competant. But I always end up with braindead n00bs, that won't grasp the sense of action and thought.....

[SufferingPlanet]

simetradon

For tabletop games, I encourage players to have "cheat sheets", which have all their miscellaneous stuff written out.

This.

Also, to hold your players in the same regards as their characters [ie: memorizing every detail about their spells] is asshattery. It wouldn't be unfair to do that if they spent every waking moment of their life leading the life of a wizard, having spent years of training under one or multiple masters to learn the arcane arts, but they're not. They go to school, they work, they have kids, wives, husbands, friends, family, play sports, other games. They play D&D as a pass time.

If they cannot remember what their spell does, or have adversely cannot look up the spell BEFORE their turn comes, they cannot cast the spell. Write cheat sheets, or plan your turn before it occurs.

I do this all the time. I was playing a druid none too long ago, and I have never played a druid before in my life and while I was waiting for my turn to come up, I would review my spells, look at the ones I may have failed to have written down, and once my turn came up, I could go "I cast [insert] and move here to flank". Roll the appropriate dice, and then my turn is over. No hold ups.

Why do people seem to feel the need to plan their actions once their turn comes up? You're in combat, you should be devising a strategy or a plan of attack before your turn. Yes you will likely have to modify things on the fly, but more often than not you can quickly remaneuver yourself or simply position yourself and while asking for some form of assistance from the rest of the party [hey billy, move so I can lightning bolt the orc and not hit you].

[epiclevelwarrior]

The player is responsible for knowing what their character can do.

If they want to use an obscure spell they need to have its text written on their sheet or an index card or something. If they can't be bothered to do that, they can't use obscure spells.

Same goes for any other class features. You want to play it, you should be motivated to know what it does, not to memorize it, necessarily but to have it written down where you can easily get to it.

If the player is too busy to put together a complicated cheat sheet they should think about playing a simpler character. Not as a punishment, just because it's not fun for anyone to have one player with their nose constantly in a book during the session.

This repeats what other people have said but, really.

[simetradon]

As a DM, I often compile the Cheat Sheets for them. Perhaps I overwork myself a little, but it's not too difficult, once you have the core sheet compiled, the players can update them every time they gain a cool new ability, spell or item.

For online games, it becomes that much easier to build a macro, so that the player clicks the button, and it auto-runs and spits out the end result.

[Mega Vox]

simetradon

As a DM, I often compile the Cheat Sheets for them. Perhaps I overwork myself a little, but it's not too difficult, once you have the core sheet compiled, the players can update them every time they gain a cool new ability, spell or item.

For online games, it becomes that much easier to build a macro, so that the player clicks the button, and it auto-runs and spits out the end result.

I have not played much 3rd, 4th, or Pathfinder, but I get the impression that 2nd edition had a LOT more content. A 'cheat sheet' containing all the spells would be, well hundreds of pages, if you include the spell descriptions as well as the skills, items, and such, you'd be looking at easily up to a thousand pages.

[simetradon]

Mega Vox

I have not played much 3rd, 4th, or Pathfinder, but I get the impression that 2nd edition had a LOT more content. A 'cheat sheet' containing all the spells would be, well hundreds of pages, if you include the spell descriptions as well as the skills, items, and such, you'd be looking at easily up to a thousand pages.

Nah, for 2nd/3.5/Pathfinder it's only a page for non-spell casters, and only a few pages for spell casters. For Chaos 6010, it's about a page for every 8 levels of a non-magic character, and 4 levels for a spell caster.

The trick is to only include the mechanics that are relevant to their character. If they, as a Wizard, have the spell of Fireball (for example), you put it on their cheat sheet. If they have an Ability, Feat, or Talent, it goes on their cheat sheet. If not, you don't bother putting it on their cheat sheet.

At the top of the first page, I also include their primary attack types, as well as the formula determining their attack bonus. I also include their Armor Class or Defense bonus, along with the formula. For Chaos, I include their Armor Ratings (Impact and Ballistic), with the formula, as it is subtracted from damage they take.

[LOL LYK STFU MANGS]

"I am not a good DM" doesn't seem like a very fun way to open up a game, other than than you seem like an enjoyable DM

[Mega Vox]

LOL LYK STFU MANGS

"I am not a good DM" doesn't seem like a very fun way to open up a game, other than than you seem like an enjoyable DM

I am not a good DM. My campaigns are unoriginal and linear for the most part. I'm simply not a good story-teller, which is 90% of what being a DM is all about.

Sure, I know the rules -mostly- and can manage my players well, but everything is pretty "two dimensional" with most quests being "go kill this things" or "go get me this item, and on the way kill things" with little more depth.

I wish I were good, but I'm simply not. I got tired of players getting angry at me about it, so I just tell them upfront.