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Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Well, it seems I need help with my SB. Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extraction, other graveyard hate has finally annoyed me when people sideboard it in. Less control decks get out tempoed and there 1 and 2 drops are outclassed easily by my MB so well that it doesn't need much SBing. Mill decks get a big ha-ha when I SB in a couple Laboratory Maniacs and Witchbane Orb. It's control that packs the hate that gets me. I'd love to have an answer to the answer. I've read ways, but most have non-Standard legal cards or inconvenient colors, so... is Witchbane Orb my only counter? Or is there something I'm missing? Maybe an alternate game plan that can replace some of the 8 finishers (Cagebreakers and Splinterfrights; not calling them wincons as they can be dealt with far easier than a hexproof/indestructible/flying/unblockable/protected fatty; 12 if you call ghoultree one).

Creatures (27)
3 Armored Skaab
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Delver of Secrets
4 Ghoultree
2 Jace's Archivist
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
2 Merfolk Looter
2 Screeching Skaab
4 Splinterfright

Spells (13)
2 Dream Twist
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Gnaw to the Bones
1 Memory's Journey
4 Mulch
1 Runic Repetition

Land (20)
8 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
8 Island

Sideboard (6)
4 Witchbane Orb
2 Laboratory Maniac
...Help?
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Oh yeah, adding a format would help, eh? I wanted to have it stay standard.
Necropath's avatar

Dangerous Lunatic

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Laboratory Maniac and Increasing Confusion would both be helpful for you.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Necropath
Laboratory Maniac and Increasing Confusion would both be helpful for you.

Hm, Maniac could be side board material in case I go against a Mill deck, other wise Runic Repetition and Memory's Journey will sustain the deck infinately until I win to whatever reason or lose to having no life. Surprised I didn't see or hear of him though at the draft.

Increasing Confusion though has some potential, but probably more so with the Maniac, to get my strategy started. Probably a one of for the Main Deck, and 1 in the side board? XD
Necropath's avatar

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Kento the Nogitsune
Necropath
Laboratory Maniac and Increasing Confusion would both be helpful for you.

Hm, Maniac could be side board material in case I go against a Mill deck, other wise Runic Repetition and Memory's Journey will sustain the deck infinately until I win to whatever reason or lose to having no life. Surprised I didn't see or hear of him though at the draft.

Increasing Confusion though has some potential, but probably more so with the Maniac, to get my strategy started. Probably a one of for the Main Deck, and 1 in the side board? XD

I honestly wouldn't know. The only time I've played against a deck with a similar strategy to yours was last weekend at FNM. My opponent played a U/G Innistrad Block Constructed deck revolving around Mulch, Tracker's Instinct, Gnaw to the Bone, Splinterfright, Ghoultree, and the Skaab creatures alongside Blue's usual shenanigans. This article from WotC's Daily MTG might also be useful for you. It was written back in September, but revolves around the concept of self-milling as U/G with a focus on Splinterfright (lots of creatures). Cards like Kessig Cagebreakers, Boneyard Wurm, and Jace's Archivist are all good in a self-mill strategy, though Jace's Archivist is the only one that's good for both a creature-heavy self mill AND a Flashback heavy self-mill.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Necropath
Kento the Nogitsune
Necropath
Laboratory Maniac and Increasing Confusion would both be helpful for you.

Hm, Maniac could be side board material in case I go against a Mill deck, other wise Runic Repetition and Memory's Journey will sustain the deck infinately until I win to whatever reason or lose to having no life. Surprised I didn't see or hear of him though at the draft.

Increasing Confusion though has some potential, but probably more so with the Maniac, to get my strategy started. Probably a one of for the Main Deck, and 1 in the side board? XD

I honestly wouldn't know. The only time I've played against a deck with a similar strategy to yours was last weekend at FNM. My opponent played a U/G Innistrad Block Constructed deck revolving around Mulch, Tracker's Instinct, Gnaw to the Bone, Splinterfright, Ghoultree, and the Skaab creatures alongside Blue's usual shenanigans. This article from WotC's Daily MTG might also be useful for you. It was written back in September, but revolves around the concept of self-milling as U/G with a focus on Splinterfright (lots of creatures). Cards like Kessig Cagebreakers, Boneyard Wurm, and Jace's Archivist are all good in a self-mill strategy, though Jace's Archivist is the only one that's good for both a creature-heavy self mill AND a Flashback heavy self-mill.

Hm, interesting. Monster Heavy seems to have the most support for it and if I went that direction would mean I'd need a more monster centric set-up. though fliers and Spawning have been making up for my more balanced build between the two as I was trying to not commit too hard. Looks like I have some reading though and pondering on these new options. Hmm...
Dark Hunter Akala's avatar

Romantic Millionaire

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Snapcaster Mages. Cast spells from the graveyard.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Dark Hunter Akala
Snapcaster Mages. Cast spells from the graveyard.

That would be a card of epic magnitudes in any deck, except this one. With Mulch, Forbidden Alchemy, and Wreath of Geists being the only cards without Flashback, it's becomes kinda stupid to pay $25 a pop for a card that let's you recur one of your mill cards or a single just in case power-up card when you can already have a reliable recurable mill card in Twisted Dream. Which functions in a dual purpose to mill me or my opponent, and with Runic Repetiton and Memory's journey, it far surpasses the utility of Snapcaster.

Good card, wrong deck.
Dark Hunter Akala's avatar

Romantic Millionaire

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Kento the Nogitsune
Dark Hunter Akala
Snapcaster Mages. Cast spells from the graveyard.

That would be a card of epic magnitudes in any deck, except this one. With Mulch, Forbidden Alchemy, and Wreath of Geists being the only cards without Flashback, it's becomes kinda stupid to pay $25 a pop for a card that let's you recur one of your mill cards or a single just in case power-up card when you can already have a reliable recurable mill card in Twisted Dream. Which functions in a dual purpose to mill me or my opponent, and with Runic Repetiton and Memory's journey, it far surpasses the utility of Snapcaster.

Good card, wrong deck.
Good point. I guess I just want to throw snaps into anything with blue.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Dark Hunter Akala
Kento the Nogitsune
Dark Hunter Akala
Snapcaster Mages. Cast spells from the graveyard.

That would be a card of epic magnitudes in any deck, except this one. With Mulch, Forbidden Alchemy, and Wreath of Geists being the only cards without Flashback, it's becomes kinda stupid to pay $25 a pop for a card that let's you recur one of your mill cards or a single just in case power-up card when you can already have a reliable recurable mill card in Twisted Dream. Which functions in a dual purpose to mill me or my opponent, and with Runic Repetiton and Memory's journey, it far surpasses the utility of Snapcaster.

Good card, wrong deck.
Good point. I guess I just want to throw snaps into anything with blue.

I probably would if this were UW Control. But it's not the case. Thank for trying though.
Emrakul's avatar

Girl-Crazy Grabber

A few quick lists for the Mill-yourself archtype.
Main Deck
60 cards

6 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
4 Shimmering Grotto
4 Woodland Cemetery
20 lands

4 Armored Skaab
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Splinterfright
24 creatures

4 Dream Twist
2 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Mulch
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Spider Spawning
2 Unburial Rites
16 other spells

First up is the BOAB list from the Mothership.

4 Armored Skaab
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Skaab Ruinator
4 Stitched Drake
Creatures [19]
4 Dream Twist
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Increasing Confusion
4 Mulch
3 Runic Repetition
Spells [23]
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island


Another angel for the deck.


Creature (20)
4x Armored Skaab
4x Boneyard Wurm
3x Deranged Assistant
2x Laboratory Maniac
3x Merfolk Looter
4x Splinterfright
Sorcery (4)
4x Mulch
Instant (13)
4x Dream Twist
1x Memory's Journey
4x Think Twice
4x Gnaw to the Bone
Land (23)
4x Hinterland Harbor
9x Forest
10x Island

4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Inferno Titan
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Creatures [17]
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Mulch
4 Tracker's Instincts
4 Unburial Rites
Spells [20]
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Darkslick Shores
6 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rootbound Crag


Frites is another take on the mill-yourself archtype.

G/u/b
Creature (21)
4x Skaab Ruinator
1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
4x Deranged Assistant
4x Kessig Cagebreakers
4x Splinterfright
4x Ghoultree
Land (23)
6x Forest
5x Island
4x Evolving Wilds
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Woodland Cemetery
Instant (11)
2x Beast Within
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Dream Twist
1x Gnaw to the Bone
Sorcery (5)
4x Mulch
1x Spider Spawning



Hopefully this is helpful, if you want any more ideas, I can track down a few more. Good luck.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Emrakul
A few quick lists for the Mill-yourself archtype.
Main Deck
60 cards

6 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
4 Shimmering Grotto
4 Woodland Cemetery
20 lands

4 Armored Skaab
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Splinterfright
24 creatures

4 Dream Twist
2 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Mulch
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Spider Spawning
2 Unburial Rites
16 other spells

First up is the BOAB list from the Mothership.

4 Armored Skaab
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Skaab Ruinator
4 Stitched Drake
Creatures [19]
4 Dream Twist
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Increasing Confusion
4 Mulch
3 Runic Repetition
Spells [23]
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island


Another angel for the deck.


Creature (20)
4x Armored Skaab
4x Boneyard Wurm
3x Deranged Assistant
2x Laboratory Maniac
3x Merfolk Looter
4x Splinterfright
Sorcery (4)
4x Mulch
Instant (13)
4x Dream Twist
1x Memory's Journey
4x Think Twice
4x Gnaw to the Bone
Land (23)
4x Hinterland Harbor
9x Forest
10x Island

4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Inferno Titan
1 Llanowar Elves
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Creatures [17]
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Mulch
4 Tracker's Instincts
4 Unburial Rites
Spells [20]
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Darkslick Shores
6 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rootbound Crag


Frites is another take on the mill-yourself archtype.

G/u/b
Creature (21)
4x Skaab Ruinator
1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
4x Deranged Assistant
4x Kessig Cagebreakers
4x Splinterfright
4x Ghoultree
Land (23)
6x Forest
5x Island
4x Evolving Wilds
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Woodland Cemetery
Instant (11)
2x Beast Within
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Dream Twist
1x Gnaw to the Bone
Sorcery (5)
4x Mulch
1x Spider Spawning



Hopefully this is helpful, if you want any more ideas, I can track down a few more. Good luck.


Lol nice. Seems Splinterfright is more for a staple and wreath of geists isn't even looked at. Hmm... trading them for it would increase the AMC... get to far from 2.5 and it gets inconsistent... hmm, gotta think on it.
Emrakul's avatar

Girl-Crazy Grabber

The issue with wreath is it sets you up for 2 for 1s that are just really difficult to recover from. I have seen builds of it with but they run invisible stalker to off set that and he doesn't really have synergy with the rest of the deck. If your worried about the decks speed mana dorks can always be increased. Birds+pilgrim/elves will give you a boost in terms of speed plus if/when they die they power up everything else. Theres tons of synergies to be played around with so theres always room to bounce ideas back and forth.
Kazuma Ryuuzaki's avatar

Distinct Conversationalist

Emrakul
The issue with wreath is it sets you up for 2 for 1s that are just really difficult to recover from. I have seen builds of it with but they run invisible stalker to off set that and he doesn't really have synergy with the rest of the deck. If your worried about the decks speed mana dorks can always be increased. Birds+pilgrim/elves will give you a boost in terms of speed plus if/when they die they power up everything else. Theres tons of synergies to be played around with so theres always room to bounce ideas back and forth.

Hm, I as bouncing of the idea of doing that, and making it more monster based doing this, but the idea is an unsure one:

-2 Civilized Scholar (As looter does the same thing plus Archivist does it better, and honestly, whose gonna block a 5/1 with a creature with 5 toughness?)
-1 Runic Memory
-1 Memory's Journey
-2 Wreath of Geists
+4 Splinterfright
+2 Birds of Paradise

But thing is, the idea seems too far fetched to work well. Lol
Emrakul's avatar

Girl-Crazy Grabber

Its viable as far as block constructed goes, it still needs some power to be over the top in standard but it seems like a fine fnm deck. The decks main issue is it folds pretty easily to specific hate, it may need a significant sideboard plan a well timed nihil spellbomb or grafdiggers cage cause a world of hurt for this kind of deck.

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