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epiclevelwarrior's avatar

Bashful Browser

Rockwarrior v2.0
Yea I am never maniacal so i knew chaotic had nothing to do with that.


"Frothing maniac" seems like an accurate description of all of the characters you have described on this thread so far.

Rockwarrior v2.0
I truly though CN was strictly do whatever you want.


That is one of the more common conceptions of the alignment. It is not based on how the alignment is actually described in the rules but many groups are fine with it.

Honestly "do whatever you want" or rather "do whatever you want with no concern for the effects on others" is closer to Neutral Evil than any other alignment.

Rockwarrior v2.0
But this seems more of a zealot. I rebel against authority and will neither help the innocent nor sacrifice myself to do so.


You could play a CN character as a zealot but you'd be equally in line with the alignment as described to play someone who primarily wants to be allowed to do their own thing and isn't particularly fussy about what anyone else does.

Rockwarrior v2.0
More so than else I will chop my allies down though. get them out of my way to become the ruler of the universe.


I repeat:

SRD
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent


Your allies are, by definition, innocent with respect to you. Wanting to kill them is not neutral, chaotic or otherwise.
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

epiclevelwarrior
Rockwarrior v2.0
Yea I am never maniacal so i knew chaotic had nothing to do with that.


"Frothing maniac" seems like an accurate description of all of the characters you have described on this thread so far.

Rockwarrior v2.0
I truly though CN was strictly do whatever you want.


That is one of the more common conceptions of the alignment. It is not based on how the alignment is actually described in the rules but many groups are fine with it.

Honestly "do whatever you want" or rather "do whatever you want with no concern for the effects on others" is closer to Neutral Evil than any other alignment.

Rockwarrior v2.0
But this seems more of a zealot. I rebel against authority and will neither help the innocent nor sacrifice myself to do so.


You could play a CN character as a zealot but you'd be equally in line with the alignment as described to play someone who primarily wants to be allowed to do their own thing and isn't particularly fussy about what anyone else does.

Rockwarrior v2.0
More so than else I will chop my allies down though. get them out of my way to become the ruler of the universe.


I repeat:

SRD
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent


Your allies are, by definition, innocent with respect to you. Wanting to kill them is not neutral, chaotic or otherwise.


Innocent? I have seen them chop down children. And they pick on my character (All the time) One of my friends however does not pick on my characters, and thus i never slay him. Then again he is often on board with me. "Kill the rest."
I wouldn't boot such a player from my table for being a little chaotic, or indulging in PvP. A little friction within the group always makes things more interesting.

Killing other party members for no relevant reason... that is a little extreme, and I'd ask such a player to curb themselves a bit. Back alley deals with antagonists is a different thing altogether, and encouraged.

Remember, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If your actions make the game interesting, they are welcome. If your actions cause the rest of the group to no longer desire to play, then you should rethink your actions.
LiaThistle's avatar

Amateur Glitch

Rockwarrior v2.0
Neither i am just explaining myself better. And No pissing people off factors under two categories.
1) What i usually do as in team kill
2) Just backstabbing them (Selling them out, stealing from them. etc.) (One campaign i played an illusionist and every time they would enter e room filled with treasure i would snap my fingers, use my bluff and they would believe that (after i made everything invisible) it was empty.)

But team killing follows me as well. I played a Minotaur and was SUPPOSE to play a good alignment. It was back when i was still relatively new. I ended up killing 7 teammates accidently, and my DM was hardcore so if i accidently killed them, it was not going to be changed to non lethal. And this was me playing Neutral good.

As for chaotic neutral. my understanding is more or so does whatever the hell he wants.

No, actually, you're reinforcing it. In three words:

You're a sadist.

Judging from the fact you posted this, and with the unspoken implicit desire to be vindicated as "not one of those players," and your Magic related posts while I still paid attention to them, allow me to add one word to that:

You're an egotistical sadist.

And what's worse is you find DMs who endorse it. Your current DM would appear to have sadistic tendencies by continuing to allow you to do that.

In regards to your Minotaur...7 kills by accident? Bullshit. Total bullshit. It just may not have been you acting on your sadism. Seems that was the DM's.
Chyrson Katama's avatar

Dapper Prophet

From what you have described Rockwarrior you are deffinetly someone I wouldn't want to play with, and the compunction to do "whatever you want" is not chaotic neutral that seems more what is commonly refered to as "Chaotic Stupid" the Chaotic end of the alignment spectrum is mislabeled for lack of a better term it doesn't mean chaos it means you do things for reasons other then "law, honor, or a personal code" but they do have reasons for doing them. The way you have described your character is more like you being a bully to the other members of the table who likely talk about you behind your back because of the way you play, lord knows my group would.
Hmmm, this has given me a bit to contemplate.

While I encourage back-room deals with antagonists, and character friction, I do so because I tend to run and play "darker" games, where characters have a bit more depth and have their own motivations and agendas. On occasion, these motivations will cause the characters to work at odds with one another.

However, if your party is not working towards at least a single common goal, there is no reason for them to have joined together in the first place, and the moment one begins to be a severe detriment to the group, there's the potential for that character to be removed from the group.

For example, when Billy Badass kills Carl Thunderfist for an insignificant reason, the rest of the party may decide that Billy is no longer safe to be around, and none of them wish to get a knife in the guts for an odd quip or offhand comment taken the wrong way. Billy wakes up the next morning to find that he's alone in camp, and everyone seems to have abandoned him in the middle of the night.

While I actively promote "double agents", it isn't to simply murder off the rest of the party, as not only is that too blatant, it's also wasteful. Why would an antagonist bother to set up a deal and only get the services of a single character, when he can simply have that character subvert the entire party into doing things to further the antagonist's agenda, thus gaining a much better return on his investment.
Chyrson Katama's avatar

Dapper Prophet

simetradon
Hmmm, this has given me a bit to contemplate.

While I encourage back-room deals with antagonists, and character friction, I do so because I tend to run and play "darker" games, where characters have a bit more depth and have their own motivations and agendas. On occasion, these motivations will cause the characters to work at odds with one another.

However, if your party is not working towards at least a single common goal, there is no reason for them to have joined together in the first place, and the moment one begins to be a severe detriment to the group, there's the potential for that character to be removed from the group.

For example, when Billy Badass kills Carl Thunderfist for an insignificant reason, the rest of the party may decide that Billy is no longer safe to be around, and none of them wish to get a knife in the guts for an odd quip or offhand comment taken the wrong way. Billy wakes up the next morning to find that he's alone in camp, and everyone seems to have abandoned him in the middle of the night.

While I actively promote "double agents", it isn't to simply murder off the rest of the party, as not only is that too blatant, it's also wasteful. Why would an antagonist bother to set up a deal and only get the services of a single character, when he can simply have that character subvert the entire party into doing things to further the antagonist's agenda, thus gaining a much better return on his investment.
Double agents in the party can be fun and interesting even for the non-double agent players and I am deffinetly in favor of this. I just don't like the characters rockwarrior seems to like to play because they are nothing but a detriment to the game and the story. Hell I'd see an argument for a double agent to be lawful and not chatic because sure they lie but they have loyalties to someone else whom they follow.
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

LiaThistle

You're an egotistical sadist.

The sadist part, that's wrong.

And I prefer the term. Egotistical Jackass

You can call me whatever you want I'll brush it off. But when other players start bullying my character just because he is small. First watch is not safe for them. Fire to the camp is usually the easiest way to off them. Since apparently all of them are always awake when i wish to slit their throat. And if they catch me and I say "Just checking up on you guys." They immediately roll a sense motive check to see if I'm bluffing.

Luckily my DM sides with me from time to time. and them neglecting sleep punishes them later on.
In theory, a double agent could be Lawful Good, if the rest of the party is predominantly Neutral or Evil.

Although I enjoy the classic DnD alignment system, when developing one for Chaos 6010, we went with a broader spectrum. There's Light, Darkness, and Shadow/Void/Neutral. Light and Darkness don't correspond to Good and Evil, as there are zealots of the Light that do horrible things, and followers of Darkness that do charitable work.

Villains rarely see themselves as such, and many horrible things are done with the intent for good.
LiaThistle's avatar

Amateur Glitch

Rockwarrior v2.0
LiaThistle

You're an egotistical sadist.

The sadist part, that's wrong.

And I prefer the term. Egotistical Jackass

You can call me whatever you want I'll brush it off. But when other players start bullying my character just because he is small. First watch is not safe for them. Fire to the camp is usually the easiest way to off them. Since apparently all of them are always awake when i wish to slit their throat. And if they catch me and I say "Just checking up on you guys." They immediately roll a sense motive check to see if I'm bluffing.

Luckily my DM sides with me from time to time. and them neglecting sleep punishes them later on.

You know the group, you know their in game habits and behaviors, that's what you've posted.

You chose to keep playing in their games.

Which can only mean you stay with them so that you can justify to yourself the cruelties you carry out in game. You feel that they've wronged you, and you're well within rights to carry out "justice" as you see fit. Which so happens to be doing whatever it takes to keep your character in power, and the players of the other characters angry. To you, that's "fun."

You're a sadist.
Chyrson Katama's avatar

Dapper Prophet

LiaThistle
Rockwarrior v2.0
LiaThistle

You're an egotistical sadist.

The sadist part, that's wrong.

And I prefer the term. Egotistical Jackass

You can call me whatever you want I'll brush it off. But when other players start bullying my character just because he is small. First watch is not safe for them. Fire to the camp is usually the easiest way to off them. Since apparently all of them are always awake when i wish to slit their throat. And if they catch me and I say "Just checking up on you guys." They immediately roll a sense motive check to see if I'm bluffing.

Luckily my DM sides with me from time to time. and them neglecting sleep punishes them later on.

You know the group, you know their in game habits and behaviors, that's what you've posted.

You chose to keep playing in their games.

Which can only mean you stay with them so that you can justify to yourself the cruelties you carry out in game. You feel that they've wronged you, and you're well within rights to carry out "justice" as you see fit. Which so happens to be doing whatever it takes to keep your character in power, and the players of the other characters angry. To you, that's "fun."

You're a sadist.
You have tried to kill their characters prior a sence motive seems to be exactly what I would do in that situation as well. If you were a player in my game I would either ask you to curb your behavior or kick you. If I were a player I would first talk to you about how your behaviour is making the game un-fun which is what a game is supposed to be, fun for all involved not just a guy who likes to be an a*****e, and where that not to work I'd probablly just leave since you seem to strive on the stress your actions cause. I feel sorry for your group and the people who have to deal with you on a regular basis.
LiaThistle's avatar

Amateur Glitch

simetradon
In theory, a double agent could be Lawful Good, if the rest of the party is predominantly Neutral or Evil.

Although I enjoy the classic DnD alignment system, when developing one for Chaos 6010, we went with a broader spectrum. There's Light, Darkness, and Shadow/Void/Neutral. Light and Darkness don't correspond to Good and Evil, as there are zealots of the Light that do horrible things, and followers of Darkness that do charitable work.

Villains rarely see themselves as such, and many horrible things are done with the intent for good.

In my systems where I feel alignment must be used, I developed a 6 point system (this was back before Pathfinder came into existence, if that gives you any idea of how long I've had it lying around).

Altruistic - self-sacrifice for the benefit of others.
Slash - basically good.
Selfish - looks out for him or herself, but isn't out to harm others.
Bust - basically evil.
Sadistic - causes pain for self-gratification.
Apathetic - just doesn't care.

I also included that the average person was somewhere between Slash/Selfish, and that combined, Altruistic, Sadistic, and Apathetic combined made up less than 3% of all creatures.

Edit:
Chyrson Katama

I think you quoted the wrong person, there. wink
Chyrson Katama's avatar

Dapper Prophet

LiaThistle
simetradon
In theory, a double agent could be Lawful Good, if the rest of the party is predominantly Neutral or Evil.

Although I enjoy the classic DnD alignment system, when developing one for Chaos 6010, we went with a broader spectrum. There's Light, Darkness, and Shadow/Void/Neutral. Light and Darkness don't correspond to Good and Evil, as there are zealots of the Light that do horrible things, and followers of Darkness that do charitable work.

Villains rarely see themselves as such, and many horrible things are done with the intent for good.

In my systems where I feel alignment must be used, I developed a 6 point system (this was back before Pathfinder came into existence, if that gives you any idea of how long I've had it lying around).

Altruistic - self-sacrifice for the benefit of others.
Slash - basically good.
Selfish - looks out for him or herself, but isn't out to harm others.
Bust - basically evil.
Sadistic - causes pain for self-gratification.
Apathetic - just doesn't care.

I also included that the average person was somewhere between Slash/Selfish, and that combined, Altruistic, Sadistic, and Apathetic combined made up less than 3% of all creatures.

Edit:
Chyrson Katama

I think you quoted the wrong person, there. wink
He was part of the quote and at the time of hitting the "quote" button I had intended to build upon what you had said lol
Rockwarrior v2.0
LiaThistle

You're an egotistical sadist.

The sadist part, that's wrong.

And I prefer the term. Egotistical Jackass

You can call me whatever you want I'll brush it off. But when other players start bullying my character just because he is small. First watch is not safe for them. Fire to the camp is usually the easiest way to off them. Since apparently all of them are always awake when i wish to slit their throat. And if they catch me and I say "Just checking up on you guys." They immediately roll a sense motive check to see if I'm bluffing.

Luckily my DM sides with me from time to time. and them neglecting sleep punishes them later on.



So, the first step you take is full escalation...

I'm surprised you have people willing to play with you anymore.
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

simetradon
Rockwarrior v2.0
LiaThistle

You're an egotistical sadist.

The sadist part, that's wrong.

And I prefer the term. Egotistical Jackass

You can call me whatever you want I'll brush it off. But when other players start bullying my character just because he is small. First watch is not safe for them. Fire to the camp is usually the easiest way to off them. Since apparently all of them are always awake when i wish to slit their throat. And if they catch me and I say "Just checking up on you guys." They immediately roll a sense motive check to see if I'm bluffing.

Luckily my DM sides with me from time to time. and them neglecting sleep punishes them later on.



So, the first step you take is full escalation...

I'm surprised you have people willing to play with you anymore.

1) they are my long time friends.
2) Full escalation. If you are talking about prefer to being called egotistical jackass. That is just me in real life. If you are referring to my characters trying to kill them first watch. I meant once the bullying begins. I play small characters, small even my racial standards. I actually have to talk to my DM to see if I can consider my Character a size category smaller. Usually the bullying gets to them. (Hung up on a moose head, stuffed down someones pants. Thrown down a wash closet.) It goes quickly form plotting revenge to carrying it out.

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