MtG Card type question

[Batgirl-BarbaraGordon]

So my main question is concerned with card types
For example
The new card: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
She causes all non-creature spells to cost 1 more colourless mana

So what does that affect?
(I know it doesn't affect creatures....like mogg fanatic)
But what about planeswalkers?

So to sum up, are planes walkers effected by Thalia?

[Itherial]

Batgirl-BarbaraGordon

So my main question is concerned with card types
For example
The new card: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
She causes all non-creature spells to cost 1 more colourless mana

So what does that affect?
(I know it doesn't affect creatures....like mogg fanatic)
But what about planeswalkers?

So to sum up, are planes walkers effected by Thalia?

effects all cards but creatures other then land that is

[LiaThistle]

In a word, "yes."

[Mashed Potato Jones]

It pretty much effects any card that isn't of the super type Creature. It's always good to know what your super types are. So if the spell doesn't say creature in the type box, then Thalia does affect it.

[SporkMaster5000]

Runegi

It pretty much effects any card that isn't of the super type Creature. It's always good to know what your super types are. So if the spell doesn't say creature in the type box, then Thalia does affect it.

creature isn't a super type. it's just a type. super types are basic, legendary, snow, and world (and ongoing, if you count outside of basic cards).

Thalia affects all spells that are not creatures. this means all planeswalkers, instants, sorceries, most enchantments and a large chunk of artifacts.

an artifact creature, however, is not (neither is Lucent Liminid, the only enchantment creature).

[Mashed Potato Jones]

SporkMaster5000

Runegi

It pretty much effects any card that isn't of the super type Creature. It's always good to know what your super types are. So if the spell doesn't say creature in the type box, then Thalia does affect it.

creature isn't a super type. it's just a type. super types are basic, legendary, snow, and world (and ongoing, if you count outside of basic cards).

Thalia affects all spells that are not creatures. this means all planeswalkers, instants, sorceries, most enchantments and a large chunk of artifacts.

an artifact creature, however, is not (neither is Lucent Liminid, the only enchantment creature).

Ah yes, my apologies, didn't mean to error there. Though I now have a weird question...does Tribal count as a card type, or a supertype...because Tarmogoyf counts it as a type it seems.

[epiclevelwarrior]

Tribal should have been a supertype and it functions as a supertype but Mark Rosewater wanted to make a joke by putting Tribal on Tarmogoyf so he made it a card type and made up some BS about how the rules required it.

So Tribal is a card type but it's a card type that cannot exist alone and otherwise functions exactly like a supertype.

Basically, Mark Rosewater's desire to make jokes on magic cards is an irritating pain in the a**.

[Batgirl-BarbaraGordon]

Also with venser the sojourner
Can his ability of exiling target permanent include himself?
And if I exile him, does he return with 5 loyalty because of his ability....or does he return with 3?

[Timid Coronet]

Batgirl-BarbaraGordon

Also with venser the sojourner
Can his ability of exiling target permanent include himself?
And if I exile him, does he return with 5 loyalty because of his ability....or does he return with 3?

he will return with 3 loyalty. the loyalty printed is the loyalty he starts with when he enteres the battlefield. so if he would enter play from ANYWHERE, he starts off with 3 loyalty.

[SporkMaster5000]

epiclevelwarrior

Tribal should have been a supertype and it functions as a supertype but Mark Rosewater wanted to make a joke by putting Tribal on Tarmogoyf so he made it a card type and made up some BS about how the rules required it.

So Tribal is a card type but it's a card type that cannot exist alone and otherwise functions exactly like a supertype.

Basically, Mark Rosewater's desire to make jokes on magic cards is an irritating pain in the a**.

Tarmogoyf and rosewater's sense of humor had nothing to do with tribal. Tarmogoyf was printed alongside the first tribal card, Bound in silence. Planeswalker was the only joke/preview on goyf

In fact, i'm pretty sure tribal was a supertype some time in design/development and the rules manager shot it down due to how subtypes are defined in the rules. Maro has used the rules as an excuse for not doing something, but he doesn't care about them enough to say "we have to do it this way because of the rules" if he points to them at all it's usually in the form of "the mean old rules manager said no"

If you want to blame mark for anything, blame gottlieb.

[epiclevelwarrior]

Rosewater later said some things which indicated he was not aware that there was an actual tribal card in FS.

Even if he was, the whole thing still feels like his sense of unecessary cute.

The "rules manager said no" thing is pretty fishy. How is Tribal inconsistent with supertypes? I don't recall it ever being explained, just invoked.

[SporkMaster5000]

epiclevelwarrior

Rosewater later said some things which indicated he was not aware that there was an actual tribal card in FS.

Even if he was, the whole thing still feels like his sense of unecessary cute.

The "rules manager said no" thing is pretty fishy. How is Tribal inconsistent with supertypes? I don't recall it ever being explained, just invoked.

Supertypes don't have sub types. Sub types, by definition, are linked to types. The point of tribal is that it grants a card access to more subtypes (namely creature types) so it had to be a type by necessity. For it to be a super type they would have jad to reword the definition of subtype to be tied to type, except in this one exception, where you also can have subtypes from one specific type, which overall is a lot sloppier and would require a lot more verbage than just adding a new type, since the ability to share subtypes between multiple types has existed since arcane. Gottlieb was obviously not willing to rewrite type definitions to the extent necessary, so the easier but slightly more nonsensical solution was taken (he seemed to have a thing for those, if you remember substance)

[Batgirl-BarbaraGordon]

Also another card

Braid of Fire

It has cumulative upkeep
(If i'm correct) This means it gets an age counter each upkeep
So

I play it,
Next upkeep it get's an age counter, however the one mana it produces can be used to pay that
However next upkeep, it get's a 2nd age counter....so logically you need 2 red mana to pay the cost
However it has only generated 1 red mana.....so doesn't that mean that it destroys itself unless you tap an untapped land?

[nukeman8000]

Batgirl-BarbaraGordon

Also another card

Braid of Fire

It has cumulative upkeep
(If i'm correct) This means it gets an age counter each upkeep
So

I play it,
Next upkeep it get's an age counter, however the one mana it produces can be used to pay that
However next upkeep, it get's a 2nd age counter....so logically you need 2 red mana to pay the cost
However it has only generated 1 red mana.....so doesn't that mean that it destroys itself unless you tap an untapped land?

Cumulative upkeep says that you must pay the upkeep cost or sacrifice the card. The Cumulative up keep on braid of fire is not that you have to pay mana, rather it is the fact that it generates mana. This means that every upkeep you will get an increasing amount of mana added to your pool, and that is ALL. There is no other effect of braid of fire than generating mana.
Note that this mana goes away before your main phase, so it can only be used things during your upkeep step.

[Batgirl-BarbaraGordon]

nukeman8000

Batgirl-BarbaraGordon

Also another card

Braid of Fire

It has cumulative upkeep
(If i'm correct) This means it gets an age counter each upkeep
So

I play it,
Next upkeep it get's an age counter, however the one mana it produces can be used to pay that
However next upkeep, it get's a 2nd age counter....so logically you need 2 red mana to pay the cost
However it has only generated 1 red mana.....so doesn't that mean that it destroys itself unless you tap an untapped land?

Cumulative upkeep says that you must pay the upkeep cost or sacrifice the card. The Cumulative up keep on braid of fire is not that you have to pay mana, rather it is the fact that it generates mana. This means that every upkeep you will get an increasing amount of mana added to your pool, and that is ALL. There is no other effect of braid of fire than generating mana.
Note that this mana goes away before your main phase, so it can only be used things during your upkeep step.

So whats the whole age counter then sacrifice it thing then?