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Like Pathfinder?

Yep	44.4%	[ 282 ]
Seems good	16.4%	[ 104 ]
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I'm Alpha testing it	5.7%	[ 36 ]
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Total Votes:			[ 635 ]

[Sprainogre]

4O4 Error

Correction: only the players aiming for a prestige class that requires a few ranks in a profession took it, and even then only the bare minimum required.

I groaned when I was playing Living Greyhawk and one of the magic items as a treasure was something that added +5 to Profession: gambler (cards of the shark). None of the players opted to take it as treasure and I honestly don't blame them. What profession as a skill needed was more utility - even in the Living Greyhawk setting which allowed for downtime - unspent time units for the year could be used for Profession/Craft rolls - Profession wasn't worth the time.

For the most part, there's no reason to buy into a profession/craft unless your're going for a prestige class, or plan on making magic items (yet another skill for wizards, sorcerer, clerics, etc to take, when they're already going to be tight on skill points). Although, I have taken a few ranks in profession/craft skills for flavor, its never all that many. Although, I so would have snagged those Cards of the Shark. But not until close to the end. They're flavor, but not useful...

[4O4 Error]

Sprainogre

4O4 Error

Correction: only the players aiming for a prestige class that requires a few ranks in a profession took it, and even then only the bare minimum required.

I groaned when I was playing Living Greyhawk and one of the magic items as a treasure was something that added +5 to Profession: gambler (cards of the shark). None of the players opted to take it as treasure and I honestly don't blame them. What profession as a skill needed was more utility - even in the Living Greyhawk setting which allowed for downtime - unspent time units for the year could be used for Profession/Craft rolls - Profession wasn't worth the time.

For the most part, there's no reason to buy into a profession/craft unless your're going for a prestige class, or plan on making magic items (yet another skill for wizards, sorcerer, clerics, etc to take, when they're already going to be tight on skill points). Although, I have taken a few ranks in profession/craft skills for flavor, its never all that many. Although, I so would have snagged those Cards of the Shark. But not until close to the end. They're flavor, but not useful...

I'm guessing that the points were flavour for one of the more skillful classes. I can't see it happening for a fighter ...

And the Cards of the Shark were treasure for a 3rd level party. Everyone was too busy trying to scrape together enough gold for a full set of Masterwork gear to worry about a potential few extra gold/time unit spent.

[Sprainogre]

Actually, I think it was a Paladin... He liked to play Dragonchess (for money), what can I say? And I still would have taken them at some point. Even if just to cell. A +5 skill adding item is worth, what, 2500gp so 1250 to sell? If nothing else, it's loot to sell that's a hell of a lot lighter then that much gold. mrgreen

[4O4 Error]

The thing is that the Living Greyhawk worked by totaling the worth of all the money/magic items/goods and then dividing that total between all the party members. Anyone why wanted those Cards of the Shark would then have to pay full market price for them from their share of the money or what they had saved up. Much more desirable to make sure you have a full kit of masterwork stuff than worry about random extras, seeing as money was strictly made to remain at expected levels. At maybe a handful of gp extra (from the bonus)/week spent gambling was not really worth the 2,500 gp initial cost.

The main point though is that Profession as it stands has nowhere near enough in-game purpose to warrant it being its own skill. To be sure you can invent uses for the skill or substitute a profession skill for something thats been covered by another skill, but that seems needless. Broadening the characters breadth of skills seems a lot more beneficial seeing as those skills needed for a profession definitely have in game uses that are greater than the narrow focus of a profession.

[Sprainogre]

Well yeah, of course profession isn't worth the skill points. I should mention the other reason I sink ranks into useless profession and craft skills: pisses of the rules lawyers in the group. It's wonderful. Didn't I mention that earlier? No? Must have forgot.

But, yeah, if profession was somehow made more in game useful for advenurers and normal folk alike, that would certainly be a step in the right direction. And I'm not just talking about making them a cost for prestige classes, which players see as a millstone that they have to bear for a few levels to get power...

[Mitsuke_Hyakka]

Some playtest items to report. Tonight was a game night and it went well.

1) I used the Alpha document to develope the encounters and the xp. I was quite pleased. Combat lasted longer and the monsters actually had a chance this time. Some examples:
a)APL=3 I had an encounter set up for 12 Tainted Raver Human Commoners 1. CR 1/4 worth 25 xp a piece. This combat lasted 3 rounds and the party was sleightly challenged.
b)APL=3 Encounter was 6 Tainted Raver Human Warriors 2 CR 1/2 worth 50 xp a pop. This combat lasted 7-10 Rounds and the PC's were challenged.(Didn't keep a close track) I suggest that you try this system. It really works.

2) I had a player attempt a Bull Rush and a Sunder. Both were successful. The weapon was only broken so I got to test that out too. It really helped. Both of those maneuvers were performed in the that Warrior combat.

So that's all I had to report at this time. I'll post up a lenghtier one over at paizo.

[DrakeEvancore]

Sounds like it went really well

[DrakeEvancore]

Found your thread Mitsuke, smile

Any thoughts on Psionic becoming core and getting an overhaul? There was a thread on the Paizo boards that caught my attention, and then I thought about other threads of requests for original new races being added and some extra 'new' core classes to be included.

And then I thought about monks and how much they lack, and then I remembered the one psionic monk I built and how well it worked.

I just think it has a lot of potential to be a good edition to the core of Pathfinder. And give something to bounce off of to improve monks.

Though I would have to say that magic and psionics would have to interact equally with each other.

[LadyEladrin]

I'd like to see psions become more mainstream in Pathfinder as well, if they've got room for another 'core' class. Too long have psions been the mysterious, unknowable classes on the sides that none of us (our groups here) would or could take because we don't know enough about how to play them. Yes we have the book(s?) but yeah, the hesitancy is there.

[Brasten]

I can see an issue in the number of additional sub-systems. A Pathfinder Psion would likely need to follow that Powers/Day table that got cooked up a while back (that was Mitsuke's, right?). That or Spellcasters would need to move to Spell/Power Point system, and wouldn't people just b***h about that. lol

Space is also an issue. There are close to 100 powers (I think) in the SRD. Adding just the Psion would mean adding most of those entires (the ones that don't duplicate spell). I really don't think people would be happy with the result (Psionic lovers, haters, or ambivalent). Something would likely have to be skipped or noticeably altered. It also adds a 5th Caster class.

Don't get me wrong I got resold on 3.5 Psionics thanks to its implementation in Eberron. Even if Paizo doesn't do a clean-up product for Psionics I'm sure it won't be long in coming from another group. Epic to is something that would be nice to revisit.

====

Dario Nardi had his survey or 8th race and class. As of Thursday he was seeing:

Goblin, Aasimar, a Half-Giant/Goliath type, and a Lycanthrope-blooded race like Eberron's shifter

Expert/artificer class, a gish, and/or a warlock. 2nd tier was noble, an alternate cleric class (spontaneous, unarmored, and/or sage-like), and a witch (a shapeshifting arcane caster).

====

I bring this up as a new Psionic class, without the baggage of pages of powers, would be an interesting idea. Additionally the Blue (psionic goblin) would make an interesting vehicle for bringing Psionics main stream. A modified Half-Giant would also make sense.

The Rogue (as was suggested on the Paizo boards) would benefit from Psionic powers in place the spell like ones. The Monk also is a good candidate for Psi-like (Ki) powers.

====
I only see two Psionic OGL monsters in the main SRD: Aboleth & Couatls.

We loose the githyanki, githzerai, and mindflayers. As replacements: the Blue or Half-Giant (depending on which isn't a Player race), intellect devourers,and the phrenic creature template.

[LadyEladrin]

Brasten

Epic too is something that would be nice to revisit.

I thought Pathfinder had already done that by going up to 25th level? Or was that 4ED by WotC? I can't remember. sweatdrop

[Arc Vembris]

4e goes up to level 30 in core

[LadyEladrin]

No word yet on what Pathfinder's doing then?

[Brasten]

If we're going just by the Alpha then it's 1st to 20th (same as 3e).

[DrakeEvancore]

Your thinking Monte's Arcana Evolved, love.

I wouldn't care if the psions went perday instead of the points.

Especially we'd probably be seeing the edition of discipline powers.