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hyena_of_leisure's avatar

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Hey, I'm somewhat new to D&D, but I had an idea for a multi class character for 3.5 that I really want to try out, but I'm not sure how to go about building to start with. For the basics, he's a Xeph psionic warrior named Rashiek, that is going to multi-class into gunslinger. The main idea for his combat style would be a "buffed" version of the normal gunslinger, with a few added psionic tricks to help keep him alive and annoy foes. Ideally, I'd like to have his equipment end up being light to medium armor of some sort, and a duel wielding, 1 whip, 1 gun(hopefully a semi-automatic or rifle, something strong that will be okay damage long range, but a massacre weapon at point blank) I want to use his psionic warrior powers to buff the whip and armor up, so he can stagger opponents and have better defensive abilities, while his gunslinger skills go into agility and gunning skills, leaving him as a character that can pounce in and out of the battlefield and really mess up an enemy before fleeing to safety and taking a few well placed shots as well.

Again I state; this is the ideal, I'm a noob so I don't know too much about the game, but I know enough that if this is impossible my soul won't be crushed in despair. All I want is a little help from more skilled players, and a whole lot of realism and constructive critiquing on how I can improve. Also, if someone might have a game available for him, I'd love to try him out once the initial character sheet is done. (Also, as a side note, I'm aware whips are generally a "useless" weapon, but I'm hoping that through psionics I can make it either have a 'push back' affect, or some form of ability to stagger/trip opponents. This is for debuffing, the gun is the 'fatal' weapon)
il-Lashtavar's avatar

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Don't use a whip. Whips aren't very good.

Instead, take the psychic whip power from Secrets of Sarlona. It stuns people that you hit with it on a failed will save. You can still try to trip or disarm people with it, but honestly that's not very useful to a character that doesn't prioritize strength, and you're doing it wrong if you spend power points on boosting your strength just to trip people. The whip's length is the range of a "close range" power, so it'll be longer than a normal whip at level one and only get longer. Also, using the power rather than a physical whip saves you a proficiency feat. You don't even need to pick up weapon finesse because the whip requires that you make ranged attacks (so you can technically use Rapid Shot in conjunction with it).

I'd also recommend that you pick up compression as a power, and Xeph Celerity as a feat. You might also consider trying to acquire a Deep Crystal weapon but it'd get spendy on your power points. I might also think about trying to get a psychic weapon, but those are most useful for Psion gishes. Also, take Woodland Archer (Races of the Wild) as soon as you can qualify.

These suggestions are all based on the "Hail of Bullets" archetype of characters rather than the "One Shot, One Kill through massive damage" archetype.
I was not aware of a Gunslinger class in 3.5

Also: Whips are not useless. Just use a Whip-Dagger.
hyena_of_leisure's avatar

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il-Lashtavar


'ego whip' you mean? I can't really find anything other than that. Compression and Xeph Celerity definitely sound useful though, as does the power the whip might have opposed to a regular whip. I thought since whips are weaker weapons and can't deal fatal blows(from what I'm told at least) I'd use it as a sabotage weaken an opponent and then use the gunslinger weapon to finish them in a one shot, or at least deal a much larger amount of damage.

Tralk


I heard about it from a friend, and when I googled it this page turned up on the D&D wiki

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Gunslinger
For the record, since you are new, D&D Wiki is 99% Homebrew, 1% actual useful materials.

So, if you intended to use a homebrew class as opposed to a real one, by all means.
hyena_of_leisure's avatar

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Tralk
For the record, since you are new, D&D Wiki is 99% Homebrew, 1% actual useful materials.

So, if you intended to use a homebrew class as opposed to a real one, by all means.

Oh.. I feel like an idiot now.. okay, thank you.. in that case I guess I'll just scrap this then. Is there a full list available of all 'real' classes for 3.5 and 4E?
il-Lashtavar's avatar

Shirtless Codger

Like I said, psychic whip is from page 131 of Secrets of Sarlona.
ThePhantomSquee's avatar

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hyena_of_leisure
Tralk
For the record, since you are new, D&D Wiki is 99% Homebrew, 1% actual useful materials.

So, if you intended to use a homebrew class as opposed to a real one, by all means.

Oh.. I feel like an idiot now.. okay, thank you.. in that case I guess I'll just scrap this then. Is there a full list available of all 'real' classes for 3.5 and 4E?


This site has a list of all the core classes and psionic classes for 3.5. Don't bother looking for 4e classes--it's not compatible with 3.5 at all. And yeah, as a general rule, most of what you find on dandwiki is homebrew of suspect quality, at best. I've found a couple of cool things on there that seem reasonable, but they're few and far between.

You may be able to talk to your DM about letting you use Pathfinder's gunslinger class instead. Run it by him if you're still interested in the idea.

As a word of advice, though, I would scrap the dual-wielding idea in this case. Being able to dual-wield effectively requires a heavy feat investment, and unless you're playing a fighter, ranger, or rogue, you just can't afford it. That said, you may be able to use the whip-dagger (as Tralk mentioned, it's a non-useless version of the whip, from the Arms and Equipment Guide) as a backup weapon.

il-Lashtavar, is Secrets of Sarlona a setting-specific book? I've never heard of it, personally--if it's a more obscure supplement, that could explain why he's having trouble finding it.
il-Lashtavar's avatar

Shirtless Codger

Shoot. I forgot that not everyone uses Eberron. Yeah, it's an Eberron, source.

it seemed to fit so well. </3
Blace_5555's avatar

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As everyone above has said don't use the whip, its useless and if you are dual-wielding you should dual wield guns since the gunslinger class isn't meant for melee and yes you should consult the DM if you wish to use the Pathfinder gunslinger, unless you are already using those rules then you are fine anyway your idea sounds cool just don't use the whip.
Bearorist's avatar

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Wait, since when is a reach weapon with 15 foot reach, that can hit in melee, and can be used to trip, disarm (with a +2), and grapple bad? Hell, it even let's dex heavy characters invest use weapon finesse with it. You guys are being kinda harsh on the whip. Is it perhaps because pushing out big numbers seems better in a vacuum?

As far as core 3.5 goes, whips are one of the best weapons, since dealing damage is the least important thing a weapon does anyways. Sure, splat books abound with better weapons, but really, there is always a better X in Book Y.
epiclevelwarrior's avatar

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The whip doesn't threaten the area it can attack into so it's no good for an AoO build, which is what tripping is good for.

Also, it deals nonlethal, is useless against armored opponents, and provokes an AoO for attacking.

The Whip Dagger fixes the nonlethal and armor issues but not the rest (I think, I don't actually have access to its stats.)

Mostly, if you're taking the EWP feat, Spiked Chain (or Kusari Gama) is just better.
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epiclevelwarrior
The whip doesn't threaten the area it can attack into so it's no good for an AoO build, which is what tripping is good for.

Also, it deals nonlethal, is useless against armored opponents, and provokes an AoO for attacking.

The Whip Dagger fixes the nonlethal and armor issues but not the rest (I think, I don't actually have access to its stats.)

Mostly, if you're taking the EWP feat, Spiked Chain (or Kusari Gama) is just better.

Whips hit from further than a spiked chain, and are one handed, allowing for the use of an off hand weapon with it, which can threaten squares.

The damage with a whip is pointless, since whips are about versatility, not damage output. Hell, if you're holding a weapon and not a spell component pouch, you're obviously not concerned with dealing damage.
epiclevelwarrior's avatar

Bashful Browser

The reason reach is good is that it lets you AoO more. You can't AoO with a whip so its reach is fairly irrelevant.

This isn't about damage (like I said, the damage issue can be solved by using a whip dagger) it's about not threatening and provoking AoOs when you attack.

Also, if you're trying to optimize reach, you will find a way to become large. The extra reach on a whip doesn't scale with size so a regular reach weapon is just better once you're large or larger.

You use whips if you want to be Indiana Jones or a Dominatrix. Not because of their stats.
Liquidor's avatar

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Had a player playing a Lasher in my 3.5 campaign. He was using his whip with a 15ft threat area. Never bothered to check the CS until now. PC was killed within a few session though.

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