Girl Gamers discussion

[MyNameIsKir]

So I got called into a game shop into my hometown, and was met by the the owners of two different game shops. Long story short, they both promised to offer me free admission to events (and occasionally free cards) if I set up a girl gamer group for them, so that I can get girls to come to ladies nights and then hopefully FNMs. In the case of one shop, other events as well.

As you can imagine, I took the offer. I have 3 more weeks to get this group running and stable enough to run without me when I return to school. The first meeting will be next Thursday, and so far I just have a free draft, some video games, pizza, and a normal standard tournament planned.

But really, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Any suggestions, or discussion on the lack of girls in the gaming community in general?

[Youkai Moe]

Free food/setting up a food schedule is absolutely what draws a lot of people to your events.

Personally I'm a girl kind of beginning gamer, I attend Pokemon TCG prereleases and am sort of in the process of making a D&D character, but... That's about it.

I feel like a lot of girls are a bit intimidated by how unusual the community is or somesuch? Not really a "normal hobby", in other words.

[MyNameIsKir]

PKBlackTornado

I feel like a lot of girls are a bit intimidated by how unusual the community is or somesuch? Not really a "normal hobby", in other words.

Yeah, I had a huge discussion about that with the two owners. I was too scared to play standard Magic FNM, finally got the courage to last night. I'd only done drafts prior. I think it's the competition really.

[Sweet Peppermint Tea]

yum_tea If you're looking to get more girls into gaming, start small. Those of us who already are gamers know how intimidating the hobby can be at first, so start with things that are relatively simple and more well-known, like Pokemon. A Pokemon TCG tourney or DS/3DS link battle tourney might be attractive to girls who are just getting started in the gaming community. From there you can work up to more complex and (to outsiders) relatively obscure things like Skullgirls, BESM, or GURPS.

Cosplay events might be attractive to crafty geek girls, though you might want to work with the store owners to set some ground rules for both appropriate attire from the costumers and appropriate behavior from other patrons beforehand. Remember, cosplay is not consent!

And yes, food is a must! Pizza's a good start, though you might want to stick to plain cheese in order to avoid as many food allergens or other dietary restrictions as possible. Make sure to have some non-gluten and non-dairy snacks as well, for people with gluten allergies, lactose intolerance, and vegans. A quick Google search should provide you with ideas and local sources for cheap, quick solutions to the food issue. Make sure you have a variety of drinks. Sodas seem obvious, but for people who are diabetic, who don't tolerate caffeine well, or who would just rather drink something else, there's juice boxes and bottled water. If you have to provide the food and beverages yourself, then I'd suggest you spend a weekend or two clipping coupons and stockpiling non-perishable snacks for the events.

[GamerAce91]

The gaming shop that I work at tried ladies night, unfortunately it fizzled pretty fast. Try to make things as casual as you can, have multiple decks for card games, and toss in some free giveaways to entice them in. That's about all the recommendations I can offer off the top of my head.

[LiaThistle]

I feel like there's something missing from this...some underlying essence that is just a whiff away from being discovered - and not knowing it is going to hinder your efforts.
Wish I could tell you what it is, but it's just a nagging feeling right now.

[SaintTape]

I've often wondered why there seems to be such trouble getting girls into game stores and such. I guess I'm lucky to have a good local shop that employs pretty much an even number of men and women, and a lot of the events either have families coming in to play (I know there's an entire family of 6 that comes in for Pokemon League), and a good number of females in general (last MTG release event had 12 girls in about 75 players...not a stunning number, but more than I've seen at most game shops).

I think girls are more attracted, at first, to less competitive events. At FNM, I'm usually the only female in 20-30 people. At releases/prereleases, you get the stats I mentioned above. And, of course, environment is huge. The fact that we have female empoyees, and a very family-friendly store helps.

Also, I was in another game store, and it was geared heavily towards male customers. Many of the game posters featured barely-clad anime girls and such...maybe that creates an uncomfortable environment as well. I'm used to it, having been playing at game stores for a decade, but it can be abrasive to new players/customers of either gender.

As for role-playing games like D&D, you've really got to have the right group. Most, I've seen, like actual storytelling and interaction more than combat. Furthermore, if you've got a group of people with the 'kill and pillage' mentality, or even with a character who's pouring the aggression on heavy, that can drive people away. I even know of a group who's driven people (in general) away because the DM is disrespectful, abrasive (especially towards women...he would badmouth his wife constantly) and lacking patience.

[LiaThistle]

SaintTape

Also, I was in another game store, and it was geared heavily towards male customers. Many of the game posters featured barely-clad anime girls and such...maybe that creates an uncomfortable environment as well. I'm used to it, having been playing at game stores for a decade, but it can be abrasive to new players/customers of either gender.

Environment is a factor, and yes, a good many women don't embrace the competition in the games (nor the treatment from people who take that competition too far).
Some of it may also be social conditioning; there's still the conditioning that women don't game. It's much less than it used to be, but it hasn't vanished.

[SaintTape]

LiaThistle

Environment is a factor, and yes, a good many women don't embrace the competition in the games (nor the treatment from people who take that competition too far).
Some of it may also be social conditioning; there's still the conditioning that women don't game. It's much less than it used to be, but it hasn't vanished.

Yeah, I didn't mention the social stigma. Card games and competition in general are still more 'boys things' than 'girls things'. And I don't know how much 'girlier' card games like the My Little Pony and Neopets help or hurt the divide when it comes to more 'boyish' card games, like Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG (at least, that's how I've seen them characterized). You should have seen the look on my grandmother's face when I told her I wanted Pokemon cards and MTG cards instead of Barbies and Backstreet Boys CDs one Christmas!

Another friend of mine mentioned that girls seem to be more likely to come in as a friend group. It's harder to pull one in alone, and of course, the whole group, then, has to be interested or none of them are.

[LiaThistle]

SaintTape

Yeah, I didn't mention the social stigma. Card games and competition in general are still more 'boys things' than 'girls things'. And I don't know how much 'girlier' card games like the My Little Pony and Neopets help or hurt the divide when it comes to more 'boyish' card games, like Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG (at least, that's how I've seen them characterized). You should have seen the look on my grandmother's face when I told her I wanted Pokemon cards and MTG cards instead of Barbies and Backstreet Boys CDs one Christmas!

Another friend of mine mentioned that girls seem to be more likely to come in as a friend group. It's harder to pull one in alone, and of course, the whole group, then, has to be interested or none of them are.

Haven't heard of the MLP card game.

Getting groups interested seems like a potential angle.

[Wildshaper]

I find that environment is key. I went to a game shop and was hit on by the male employees! I was the only female there whenever I visited, and I was most definitely looked at. It was definitely not an atmosphere I enjoyed, being constantly judged for my looks, what I was wearing, and the fact that I actually could play MTG! That place gave the feel of a 'male only zone.' I want to be treated like a gamer, not an 'omg gurl gamer!'.

The store owners seem to be concerned by the lack of females coming to their game shop. I think that making a 'girls' night' event can help bring some girls in, but they may find that girls will come only then because 'girls' night' event means that all other nights are for males. Integration between males and females, I think, would help, and build the trust that needs to be there for a lot of girls to feel comfortable going to a place that is so typically dominated by males.

Also consider that girls (particularly of the teenage years) are unlikely to go alone. They are going to want to come with friends, or continue to go to the game shop to visit their friends. One girl is likely to invite her other friends. Plus, don't forget about parents. I was never allowed to go to the gameshop in my hometown because my parents considered it unsafe because it was set up in a place that didn't seem trustworthy (dark and hidden away). It did cater and have the feel of a place for guys.

Girls are less likely to like competition, so head towards games that desire cooperation between players. Or board games that aren't super strategy oriented. Perhaps it would be best to have the old classics in board games that people are likely to already know how to play. You want to foster a community so that, if you have to leave after only four weeks, there is a desire for girls to keep coming even after you leave.

But, OP, you said you were too scared to play FNM. How are the guys at these stores? I am blessed by the current game shop that I go to. The guys there are friendly. They don't insult me by thinking I obviously don't know how to play a game or must be worse, nor do they judge me on my physical appearance. When I play in tournaments, it's competitive, sure, but my (usually male) opponent and I will have fun doing so. Shaking hands after games, laughing when our decks decide to fail horribly, and being friendly in general really makes it fun for me. If it's just about winning at FNM, that's not likely to cater to most of the female population. If the guys aren't willing to accept a girl into their gaming groups, the girls will come to girls' night events only, instead of all the time. It'll be an us vs them mentality.

EDIT: Obviously, some of this stuff is out of your hands to change, and is more directed at the owners. But, I think the main point of it is to build an event where the girls (and their parents!) feel safe and enjoy coming. Ask them to bring friends, suggest games, or even ask them what some of their other hobbies are! I think girls will stay for the friendships more than for any games you might actually play.

[Zeddicuus]

I don't have much to add to this that wasn't already stated, but a few points were made I want to post my penny on (typically my thoughts are worth the full charge!)

Environment - As mentioned by a few this can be pretty important. If the store is set up to seem like a man cave, not many ladies are going to want to go there. Unfortunately controlling this will be out of your hands when you start introducing the opposite sex. The store would need to put up a more professional, low tolerance approach to inappropriate behaviour. If someone is getting out of hands with comments, warnings of temporary banishment would probably have to be handed out to those individuals to dissuade that kind of behaviour. I've seen it in a shop I used to go to in another city. A couple teenage girls showed up wanting to learn how to play M:tG. While the owners had a nice store setup without the typical "High Fantasy" style posters of warrior women in almost nothing, things would change on the tournament floor when they stepped out of the room to deal with clients up front.

Those girls came for the one day and never showed up again after some of the things that were said to them, and I didn't blame them for not coming back. I wouldn't stick around for that kind of drek.

So one of the things you're going to have to do before you start this is consider how you're treated in these shops. is it the kind of environment and people you're at ease in?

[MyNameIsKir]

Oh wow, that's a lot of detailed responses, thank you guys!

Sweet Peppermint Tea

I don't handle the food, but I wouldn't be so worried about dietary issues. This is the first event and if we prepare for every dietary issue we're really limited. We'll see who turns up and if they have a dietary issue, then we'll accommodate it. I did try to contact a group of the cosplayers but they didn't respond, sadly. Also, we won't have to worry about male patrons. We're lucky to have a shop where the gaming room can be closed off from the shop and accessed separately, so the owner will be the only male allowed to come in.

LiaThistle

I feel like there's something missing from this...some underlying essence that is just a whiff away from being discovered - and not knowing it is going to hinder your efforts.
Wish I could tell you what it is, but it's just a nagging feeling right now.

That's exactly why I made this thread. It may already be taking effect. There's plenty of members in the facebook group now but I don't think many girls will be attending the first event...

SaintTape

I think girls are more attracted, at first, to less competitive events....As for role-playing games like D&D, you've really got to have the right group

I really understand that. I'm trying to find a DM still, and as for the group that'll form itself. So fingers crossed! Competitive events are definitely very intimidating for girls and that's actually the central point of this society. If we can get the girls comfortable playing with each other, then maybe we can get them playing the guys.

Wildshaper

I find that environment is key... Also consider that girls (particularly of the teenage years) are unlikely to go alone.

Luckily our environment is fine. I can't say anything about who will be coming. I honestly don't know pretty much anyone in the gaming community here. I didn't game when I lived here.

Wildshaper

But, OP, you said you were too scared to play FNM. How are the guys at these stores?

Luckily for me, they're very casual. I'm treated the same way they treat everyone else, until my nametag indicating that I'm a DCI judge comes out. Then I'm suddenly incredibly interesting. I only have budget decks against their $200 decks for example, and I'm scared of making a complete fool of myself from missing triggers and such. Also the countless times I forget my own plans for the turn and skip it when I haven't even moved to combat. That's really why I'm scared. I'm scared of my own resources and my own awful memory.

[aSleepyPanda]

I would recommend games that are easier to learn to start. That way the new gamers don't feel overwhelmed. Here are a few I like:

-King of Tokyo
-Love Letter
-Get Bit
-Sorry
-Scrabble
-Apples to Apples ( I would suggest Cards Against Humanity but some people wouldn't like it)

See if there are any tabletop groups at your local community college and let them know. Make sure that the store owners are putting up flyers, posting the event on their facebook page and advertising the girls night at every event. Maybe have a raffle if the owners are willing to donate a game like Love Letter (I believe that is a fairly inexpensive game).

Other than TCG games like MTG, Pokemon, and Yugioh what are the shops more popular games?

If you happen to be near the Seattle/Greater Seattle area I would be interested to attend. smile

[Soundwave 2]

While not a girl, If you lived near North Richland Hillls/ Hurst Texas, I'd be more than willing to help. I had a loosely similar situation in high-school trying to set up a club for card gamers of both sexes. In the end, I was able to get some guys but no girls, in spite of my efforts to get girls to attend.