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Revered Guardian

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Paris bombing

Quote:
French President Francois Hollande proposed constitutional amendments and a three-month extension of state of emergency measures Monday that will severely limit the civil liberties of French citizens.

After a series of coordinated terrorist attacks left 129 dead in Paris Friday, Hollande immediately declared a state of emergency, based on a rarely used 1955 law that allows the state to conduct warrantless searches of private property, impose curfews, restrict public gatherings and movements of people, confiscate weapons at will and take over the press.

By law the state of emergency cannot last more than 12 days, but Hollande asked for a three-month extension Monday. He also proposed a series of constitutional amendments to increase the state’s surveillance powers and give it power to strip convicted terrorists and bi-nationals who commit hostile acts toward France of citizenship.

Hollande said the amendments are necessary so the state doesn’t have to “resort to the state of emergency” to deal with terror threats. “We must change our constitution to act against terrorism,” he said Monday.

The proposed amendments will also give the state “more sophisticated methods” to crack down on weapons trafficking, a quicker way to deport foreigners considered a threat, and the ability to bar bi-nationals considered a terror risk from entering the country.

French conducted 168 raids Sunday night, turning up cash, bulletproof vests, various types of guns and a rocket launcher, reported The Wall Street Journal. Police put 104 people on house arrest and detained 23 others.

Hollande has promised a “merciless” fight against ISIS in response to the attack. French fighter jets dropped 20 bombs on the group’s defacto Syrian capital of Raqqa Sunday night, destroying a command center and training camp.

Source


What do you think of Hollande's actions? Do you think this is warranted or a knee jerk reaction?

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Under the circumstances, and considering they actually found a fair bit of weapons, I don't see it as a problem...IF they stick to the 12-day rule. You can accomplish a lot in 12 days. 3 MONTHS seems excessive. But honestly I'd be thinking of what OUR government would do in three months. I'm not familiar with the French gov or police so I don't know if their methods are better or worse than ours in terms of civil liberties.

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I hope they have sense and don't do this idiocy.

Everytime one of these happens there's always the reaction of "Quick let's grab more civil liberties".

A better approach is to conduct an extensive investigation, find out how you failed, and then once you found out how you failed implement policy from there.

Not rushing like a complete moron into a larger surveillance state.

Kawaii Shoujo

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Twelve days should be able to suffice, but I am entirely against the warrantless searches, restrictions of gatherings and movements of the people, and taking over the press... we don't need another North Korea.

Revered Guardian

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Wraith of Azrael
I hope they have sense and don't do this idiocy.

Everytime one of these happens there's always the reaction of "Quick let's grab more civil liberties".

A better approach is to conduct an extensive investigation, find out how you failed, and then once you found out how you failed implement policy from there.

Not rushing like a complete moron into a larger surveillance state.
I guess we'll see in twelve days or if the French Parliament (?) decides to extend this to three months, which I hope they don't.

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A knee-jerk reaction, of course.

Also, it's been too long since France has had a succesful revolution..if you know what I mean. I say, rekindle the spirit of 1789, 1830, 1848, and 1968. Vive la sixieme Republique.

Revered Guardian

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Liberty Smith
Whew, I'm happy I don't live where this happens. Glad I live in the U.S., the land of the free!
I'm sensing some sarcasm xD

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I am not sure how I feel about the rest of the items, but I am complete agreement with loss of citizenship if you are actively trying to destabilize and destroy said country that you are a citizen of. I feel that one is quite reasonable.

For the rest, I am not sure what the best way to combat these bitchy little shits is, so I don't feel I am in a position to critique other's ideas - even they are feudal.

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I don't feel the 3 month thing is warranted unless there is some sort of check and balance.
Like if it was here in the US (because I don't know French government very well) the president could approve the short term one (12 day) but an extension would have to be approved by congress - or something like that.

Some of the terms sounded rather vague, like -
“more sophisticated methods” to crack down on weapons trafficking"
I might be for that or against it depending on what was actually involved.

I do agree with -
strip convicted terrorists and bi-nationals who commit hostile acts toward France of citizenship.
Frankly I feel like anyone who commits hostile acts against the USA should lose their US citizenship.
One caveat though would be making sure "hostile acts against the US" was not too loosely defined and being used as a severe banhammer for other types of crimes.
But in general, I don't think any government should have to tolerate citizens performing hostile acts against it. If they are truly hostile and not just a peaceful protest or something like that.

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Darth Acheron


What do you think of Hollande's actions? Do you think this is warranted or a knee jerk reaction?


I think generally this is what happens when you get more diversity packed into a single country. There's always a drift towards a totalitarian state, which is necessary to keep the diversity under control.

It is kind of revealing that these people are willing to create huge police surveillance states in the name of Diversity. Reminds me of that quote from that American general:

General Casey


General George Casey, the Army’s top officer, is concerned that diversity will become a casualty of the Fort Hood tragedy.

The religious beliefs of suspect Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a Muslim Army psychiatrist, have led to speculation about motive in the shooting rampage that killed 13 people.

“I’m concerned that this increased speculation could cause a backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers. And I’ve asked our Army leaders to be on the lookout for that,” Casey told CNN’s “State of the Union.”

Asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” whether Muslim soldiers are conflicted in fighting wars in Muslim countries like Afghanistan and Iraq, Casey said: “I think that’s something that we have to look at on an individual basis. But I think we as an Army have to be broad enough to bring in people from all walks of life.”

The bottom line is the military benefits from diversity, he said.

“Our diversity, not only in our Army, but in our country, is a strength. And as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that’s worse,” Casey said.


http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/11/08/general-casey-diversity-shouldnt-be-casualty-of-fort-hood/

Pretty shocking, when you think about it. The 'Army's top officer' valued diversity more than human life. I suspect the elites all around the world have a similar kind of fanatical devotion to 'diversity'.

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I wouldn't really mind it because hey; ALOT of innocent lives were taken.
Its in thought to not lose any more innocent lives.
Life is precious. gonk

Revered Guardian

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Umabelle
I wouldn't really mind it because hey; ALOT of innocent lives were taken.
Its in thought to not lose any more innocent lives.
Life is precious. gonk
You would give up civil liberties in the name of 'safety'? That's foolish.The words of Ben Franklin come to mind:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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Darth Acheron
Umabelle
I wouldn't really mind it because hey; ALOT of innocent lives were taken.
Its in thought to not lose any more innocent lives.
Life is precious. gonk
You would give up civil liberties in the name of 'safety'? That's foolish.The words of Ben Franklin come to mind:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Say,
would you rather save lives or let lives die?
They're taking a cautionary measure because there is an active manhunt over there, one confirmed person and a possible 9th is underway.
Picture yourself in their situation right now.
It is not foolish to be empathetic to an extent.
People do not think; "Oh, they're momentarily protecting us from further harm? I cry our liberty is at stake!" No, it is not.
stare

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Umabelle
Darth Acheron
Umabelle
I wouldn't really mind it because hey; ALOT of innocent lives were taken.
Its in thought to not lose any more innocent lives.
Life is precious. gonk
You would give up civil liberties in the name of 'safety'? That's foolish.The words of Ben Franklin come to mind:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Say,
would you rather save lives or let lives die?
They're taking a cautionary measure because there is an active manhunt over there, one confirmed person and a possible 9th is underway.
Picture yourself in their situation right now.
It is not foolish to be empathetic to an extent.
People do not think; "Oh, they're momentarily protecting us from further harm? I cry our liberty is at stake!" No, it is not.
stare


So you're saying you'd rather reduce your own existsnce (and the existance of your fellow citizens) to that of children?

You're private property will be searched if the State thinks you "suspicious".

You cannot go to places the State deems "unsafe" or "suspicious".

You cannot associate with anyone the State deems "suspicious".

You cannot say anything the State deems "suspicious".

You cannot own anything the State deems "suspicious".

You have to be home by a certain time or the State will punish you.

Failure to follow any orders of the State will end in your punishment.

Might as well find yourself a nice prison cell if you wish to live that way.
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