Welcome to Gaia! ::


Snuggly Buddy

29,150 Points
  • Conversationalist 100
  • Mark Twain 100
  • Conventioneer 300
TLDR: The automotive industry does not want you (or any mechanic they don't authorize) to be able to look at the computer software in your vehicle and are trying to use the DMCA to prevent it.

EFF Automakers Say You Don’t Really Own Your Car

Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiasporaPrintEmail This
April 3, 2015 | By Kit Walsh
Automakers Say You Don’t Really Own Your Car

EFF is fighting for vehicle owners’ rights to inspect the code that runs their vehicles and to repair and modify their vehicles, or have a mechanic of their choice do the work. At the moment, the anti-circumvention prohibition in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act arguably restricts vehicle inspection, repair, and modification. If EFF is successful then vehicle owners will be free to inspect and tinker, as long as they don’t run afoul of other regulations, such as those governing vehicle emissions, safety, or copyright law.

You can support EFF's exemption requests by adding your name to the petition we'll submit in the rulemaking.

Most of the automakers operating in the US filed opposition comments through trade associations, along with a couple of other vehicle manufacturers. They warn that owners with the freedom to inspect and modify code will be capable of violating a wide range of laws and harming themselves and others. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to repair your own car because you might not do it right. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to modify the code in your car because you might defraud a used car purchaser by changing the mileage. They say no one should be allowed to even look at the code without the manufacturer’s permission because letting the public learn how cars work could help malicious hackers, “third-party software developers” (the horror!), and competitors.

John Deere even argued that letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system, which would be one of the more convoluted ways to copy media (and the exemption process doesn’t authorize copyright infringement, anyway).

The parade of horribles makes it clear that it is an extraordinary stretch to apply the DMCA to the code that runs vehicles. The vast majority of manufacturers' concerns have absolutely nothing to do with copyright law. And, as the automakers repeatedly point out, vehicles are subject to regulation by other government agencies with subject matter expertise, which issue rules about what vehicles are and are not lawful to operate on public roadways.

The DMCA essentially blundered into this space and called all tinkering and code inspection into question, even acts that are otherwise lawful like repairing your car, making it work better at high altitude, inspecting the code to find security and safety issues, or even souping it up for use in races on a private course. We’re presenting the Copyright Office with the opportunity to undo this collateral damage and leave regulating auto safety to specialized agencies, who understandably have not seen fit to issue a blanket prohibition against vehicle owners’ doing their own repairs and safety research.

Here’s how you can help. The opponents of the vehicle exemptions say that no one really cares about the restrictions they place on access to vehicle code, so the Copyright Office should deny the exemptions. Now, we cited a number of projects, and thousands of people wrote to the office to support the exemptions, but we are confident there are even more projects, businesses, and individuals out there who need these exemptions and it would be a shame if the Copyright Office didn’t know it.

If you have had problems with vehicle repair or tinkering because you were locked out of your vehicle’s computers, if you would have engaged in a vehicle-related project but didn’t because of the legal risk posed by the DMCA, or if you or your mechanic had to deal with obstacles in getting access to diagnostic information, then we want to hear from you—and the Copyright Office should hear from you, too.

Demonic Bookworm

30,400 Points
  • Consumer 100
  • Dressed Up 200
  • Citizen 200
If this fails, could they try and go after the automakers for anti-trust violations because this sounds an awful lot like a trust.

13,000 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Signature Look 250
  • Money Never Sleeps 200
Why does this not have more attention? It sounds like another scam for them to charge us insane amounts of money to get our cars fixed instead of being able to do it ourselves. My grandmother is forced to go in to get her TIRES AIRED. She has those nitrus ones, so regular air won't cut it and her car MAKES her aware when they're low.

Snuggly Buddy

29,150 Points
  • Conversationalist 100
  • Mark Twain 100
  • Conventioneer 300
Alexander J Luthor
Why does this not have more attention? It sounds like another scam for them to charge us insane amounts of money to get our cars fixed instead of being able to do it ourselves. My grandmother is forced to go in to get her TIRES AIRED. She has those nitrus ones, so regular air won't cut it and her car MAKES her aware when they're low.


Your grandmother might be wasting her money.
She does have a choice. She doesn't have to use nitrogen in her tires.
Edmunds - Should You Fill Your Car's Tires With Nitrogen?

Spoopy Gekko

My dad is a mechanic. He has had to send customers to dealerships with less-than-trustworthy mechanics working there and whatnot because he's not allowed to run certain diagnostic codes/isn't allowed to own the tools to do so. These same mechanics have broken said things on his customers' cars that shouldn't have ever been inspected/touched when they're sent in for specific things that had been in perfect condition prior to the visit ( like brakes being changed only for something with their transmission to ******** up that was working fine until after they took it in ).

So yes, I heavily believe in the theory that they do this as a money pull and are threatened because they know a huge majority of their dealerships' mechanics will lose business if people are allowed to run these codes themselves. The mechanics have been caught purposely messing with other things on cars here at dealerships in order to get the person to return with the vehicle again, which means more commission pay for them.

Don't get me wrong, I get where they're coming from with the concerns about what happens if someone tries to overwrite the code but honestly, I know they're saying that to cover their asses. In my opinion, dealerships are going to lose more business keeping these codes in place on newer vehicles in the long run. My dad has had customers get so tired of running back and forth with the dealership with codes popping up on brand new cars that they just buy used cars now that don't have those systems in place.

Undead Enchantress

Automobiles are like Gaia accounts now? eek
Of course if there is a defect in the design of their cars that kills/injures people, then suddenly the car is yours, not something they could predict, and so not their responsibility. lol

Quotable Informer

20,825 Points
  • Elysium's Gatekeeper 100
  • Partygoer 500
  • Frozen Sleuth 100
We can't even get those automakers at their who dealership to repair properly or to know the quality of their s**t. My brother new off the lot car had three things go out of it within two weeks.

13,000 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Signature Look 250
  • Money Never Sleeps 200
David2074
Alexander J Luthor
Why does this not have more attention? It sounds like another scam for them to charge us insane amounts of money to get our cars fixed instead of being able to do it ourselves. My grandmother is forced to go in to get her TIRES AIRED. She has those nitrus ones, so regular air won't cut it and her car MAKES her aware when they're low.


Your grandmother might be wasting her money.
She does have a choice. She doesn't have to use nitrogen in her tires.
Edmunds - Should You Fill Your Car's Tires With Nitrogen?

I should have logged into gaia first. Just got off the phone. I'll remember this link for when I get my new car. It's embarassing that these, knowing to regularly check tires, are things every driver should know about and not so many do.

Snuggly Buddy

29,150 Points
  • Conversationalist 100
  • Mark Twain 100
  • Conventioneer 300
Alexander J Luthor
David2074
Alexander J Luthor
Why does this not have more attention? It sounds like another scam for them to charge us insane amounts of money to get our cars fixed instead of being able to do it ourselves. My grandmother is forced to go in to get her TIRES AIRED. She has those nitrus ones, so regular air won't cut it and her car MAKES her aware when they're low.


Your grandmother might be wasting her money.
She does have a choice. She doesn't have to use nitrogen in her tires.
Edmunds - Should You Fill Your Car's Tires With Nitrogen?

I should have logged into gaia first. Just got off the phone. I'll remember this link for when I get my new car. It's embarassing that these, knowing to regularly check tires, are things every driver should know about and not so many do.


Sometimes we get lazy. Or I do anyway.
I've done lots of automotive work over the years including swapping out and major overhauls of engines. Then on little stuff like tire pressure I often don't check unless a tire looks low or it has been a long time. I'm very good about checking pressures and fluid levels etc just prior to a long trip but for local driving I don't check as often as I know I should.

I didn't realize nitrogen filling of tires was becoming an overpriced common add on.
I've heard of it but usually in the context of race cars and such - situations where there was unusually high stress on the tires / vehicle.
If I purchase a car some day that has it I will most likely just go back to standard air in the tires.
Unless of course the nitrogen thing becomes so common you are not paying $6 per tire to have your tire pressure topped off. But I usually air my tires at home from my shop compressor.

For some situations I could see nitrogen being worse then air. I bet some people with nitrogen delay dealing with their tire pressure due to the overpriced nitrogen whereas if they had plain air they might check and pump them up more frequently.

kuroreo's Waifu

Peaceful Light

27,575 Points
  • Tenacious Spirit 250
  • Perfect Attendance 400
  • Ultimate Player 200
David2074
Alexander J Luthor
David2074
Alexander J Luthor
Why does this not have more attention? It sounds like another scam for them to charge us insane amounts of money to get our cars fixed instead of being able to do it ourselves. My grandmother is forced to go in to get her TIRES AIRED. She has those nitrus ones, so regular air won't cut it and her car MAKES her aware when they're low.


Your grandmother might be wasting her money.
She does have a choice. She doesn't have to use nitrogen in her tires.
Edmunds - Should You Fill Your Car's Tires With Nitrogen?

I should have logged into gaia first. Just got off the phone. I'll remember this link for when I get my new car. It's embarassing that these, knowing to regularly check tires, are things every driver should know about and not so many do.


Sometimes we get lazy. Or I do anyway.
I've done lots of automotive work over the years including swapping out and major overhauls of engines. Then on little stuff like tire pressure I often don't check unless a tire looks low or it has been a long time. I'm very good about checking pressures and fluid levels etc just prior to a long trip but for local driving I don't check as often as I know I should.

I didn't realize nitrogen filling of tires was becoming an overpriced common add on.
I've heard of it but usually in the context of race cars and such - situations where there was unusually high stress on the tires / vehicle.
If I purchase a car some day that has it I will most likely just go back to standard air in the tires.
Unless of course the nitrogen thing becomes so common you are not paying $6 per tire to have your tire pressure topped off. But I usually air my tires at home from my shop compressor.

For some situations I could see nitrogen being worse then air. I bet some people with nitrogen delay dealing with their tire pressure due to the overpriced nitrogen whereas if they had plain air they might check and pump them up more frequently.



You remind me David, that a lot of people in your day and age knew how to fix a lot of their own stuff. They learned it in order to save money and because it was a lot easier to do back then. I think that if we can, we should be able to fix our own cars, new or old. It's hard to find a trustworthy mechanic these days it seems. Used to be when people could fix their own stuff, mechanics seemed more inclined to earn the trust of the customers, lest they lose their business. At least they don't have a computer locking us out of changing our lights or our tires I guess though xd

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum