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Hygienic Genius

Okay I wasn't really paying too much attention to this thread at the beginning when I posted my comment, so I went back and read it and-

This thread is an absolute train wreck from start to finish.

Garbage

Jeff the Kitten
I assume that you trust society to some extent to get married.
That extent is "giving Cassi health care."

I could live happily with my husband even if we weren't married, and little in our relationship has changed since the wedding. Nowadays, though, I can actually afford my medical bills and prescriptions.
ratgirl34
Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Nobody forces sex changes on anyone, it is an option for people who believe that they were born with the wrong parts. If they don't want anti-depressants, if what they want is their d**k exchanged for a v****a (or vise versa) and a pair of tits put on (or removed)... What is the harm in that? So they can't have kids, big deal.

Even if sex changes were forced on people, in what way would that be different from forcing them to take anti-depressants instead?

I'm on anti-depressants, if my problems could be solved by a sex change I'd do that. I am not, however, a transgender so such a surgery would be pointless and damaging to my psyche. For people who are transgender the surgery would be beneficial.
Health is about more than just doing what you want. If you want to lob off your head you'd probably be found in poor/no health by the people who noticed you missing.

Anti-depressants can greatly boost your mood, and sex repressors can take away those self mutilating desires that you were once so hung up about as a transgendered person. Not only does this buy time for the people trying to preserve your body and your happiness, but it also does away with all of that damage you'd needlessly be inflicted else-wise.

It's about doing what keeps you mentally stable in the long run. If my happiness, and therefore mental stability, can be aided by an optional procedure then there is no harm in it for me as long as I am aware of any side effects that may take away options in future.

You seem to be under the impression that people are being forced to undergo the surgery or are not informed of the side effects. They go into the operating room after taking the time to thoroughly examine their options and how the surgery will impact their life.

Hate to break it to you, but anti-depressants often kill sex drive. My sex drive is presently so low that I've had relationships end on that basis alone. I get interested in sex once every few months, but my reproductive system functions quite normally. This is a massive buzz-kill for any man that I am interested in dating, and while I can't blame them I am unable to function normally at all if I stop the anti-depressants. What would you find sexy about a woman curled up on the floor sobbing with no idea what set her off? Or when her mood swings in another direction and she throws a hissy fit over the placement of a chair? Which then sets her off on the crying fit because she is scared of her own tantrums?

I hate to break it to you, but your answer to all life's mental problems is not the be-all end-all. And if there are other options for people to get the same result, why not just shut up and let them have it? If they are not endangering their lives, or anyone else's, what right do you have to tell them they can't have it?
I'm under no impressions about doctor patient confidentiality or federal laws regarding treatment disclosure to patients. My argument is that society cannot tolerate these kind of optional procedures because they do, in fact, cause physical and mental harm in the long run to people who choose to undergo them, where safer and impermanent options that allow for a better quality of life are available.

These qualities are including, but not limited to: A functioning reproductive system, full nerve endings in the sex organs to maximize the pleasure and fulfillment a person gets from masturbating and having sex, an openly variable choice when it comes to conceiving or having a child conceived in you, and finally, given proper neuro-technology; a mind that is capable of accepting on an emotional level the genitals, nerves, and child making ability that a person has, rather than trying to a very incomplete job of shifting it.

Shirtless Member

The20
ratgirl34
Nobody forces sex changes on anyone, it is an option for people who believe that they were born with the wrong parts. If they don't want anti-depressants, if what they want is their d**k exchanged for a v****a (or vise versa) and a pair of tits put on (or removed)... What is the harm in that? So they can't have kids, big deal.

Even if sex changes were forced on people, in what way would that be different from forcing them to take anti-depressants instead?

I'm on anti-depressants, if my problems could be solved by a sex change I'd do that. I am not, however, a transgender so such a surgery would be pointless and damaging to my psyche. For people who are transgender the surgery would be beneficial.
There are people with perfectly healthy bodies who pretend to be amputees because they feel one of their limbs doesn't belong to their body. Do you also think it would be a good idea to "help" them by removing those limps? And don't even think about saying this is different because it handicaps them, being infertile is a handicap, too, even if it isn't as obvious in daily life.

I must admit that I have mixed feeling on it, but likely because it is something that I've only learned about in the last year. I had issues with transgenderism as well when I first heard about it.

I agree that it would be hypocritical of me to say that those people shouldn't get their operations. But I haven't put enough thought into it to really feel comfortable answering in any way.

Hygienic Genius

Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Nobody forces sex changes on anyone, it is an option for people who believe that they were born with the wrong parts. If they don't want anti-depressants, if what they want is their d**k exchanged for a v****a (or vise versa) and a pair of tits put on (or removed)... What is the harm in that? So they can't have kids, big deal.

Even if sex changes were forced on people, in what way would that be different from forcing them to take anti-depressants instead?

I'm on anti-depressants, if my problems could be solved by a sex change I'd do that. I am not, however, a transgender so such a surgery would be pointless and damaging to my psyche. For people who are transgender the surgery would be beneficial.
Health is about more than just doing what you want. If you want to lob off your head you'd probably be found in poor/no health by the people who noticed you missing.

Anti-depressants can greatly boost your mood, and sex repressors can take away those self mutilating desires that you were once so hung up about as a transgendered person. Not only does this buy time for the people trying to preserve your body and your happiness, but it also does away with all of that damage you'd needlessly be inflicted else-wise.

It's about doing what keeps you mentally stable in the long run. If my happiness, and therefore mental stability, can be aided by an optional procedure then there is no harm in it for me as long as I am aware of any side effects that may take away options in future.

You seem to be under the impression that people are being forced to undergo the surgery or are not informed of the side effects. They go into the operating room after taking the time to thoroughly examine their options and how the surgery will impact their life.

Hate to break it to you, but anti-depressants often kill sex drive. My sex drive is presently so low that I've had relationships end on that basis alone. I get interested in sex once every few months, but my reproductive system functions quite normally. This is a massive buzz-kill for any man that I am interested in dating, and while I can't blame them I am unable to function normally at all if I stop the anti-depressants. What would you find sexy about a woman curled up on the floor sobbing with no idea what set her off? Or when her mood swings in another direction and she throws a hissy fit over the placement of a chair? Which then sets her off on the crying fit because she is scared of her own tantrums?

I hate to break it to you, but your answer to all life's mental problems is not the be-all end-all. And if there are other options for people to get the same result, why not just shut up and let them have it? If they are not endangering their lives, or anyone else's, what right do you have to tell them they can't have it?
I'm under no impressions about doctor patient confidentiality or federal laws regarding treatment disclosure to patients. My argument is that society cannot tolerate these kind of optional procedures because they do, in fact, cause physical and mental harm in the long run to people who choose to undergo them, where safer and impermanent options that allow for a better quality of life are available.

These qualities are including, but not limited to: A functioning reproductive system, full nerve endings in the sex organs to maximize the pleasure and fulfillment a person gets from masturbating and having sex, an openly variable choice when it comes to conceiving or having a child conceived in you, and finally, given proper neuro-technology; a mind that is capable of accepting on an emotional level the genitals, nerves, and child making ability that a person has, rather than trying to a very incomplete job of shifting it.


So essentially you are just saying that being transgender is a disease in a very long drawn out way.
Pessimist
Jeff the Kitten
Pessimist
Jeff the Kitten
Pessimist
What, exactly, is a 'cross sex hormone'? Women produce testosterone and men produce estrogen naturally.
Don't you 'six of one, half dozen of the other" me, missy. Levels of male hormones in female bodies and vice versa are usually negligible in the puberty process of body molding that gives women their shape and vice versa.

Suppose you started HRT on a fifteen year old girl and her bones which were already partially developed to be female in nature suddenly have to start growing to be male in nature. This kind of thing isn't doing any favors to structural stability and bone density.

It's hard enough doing surgery on bones to make people taller. Don't expect flip flopping bone structure to be a picnic.



... + other side effects of the muscles, skin, nervous and circulatory systems that don't happen in naturally progressing people most of the time.


You didn't answer my question. What is a 'cross sex hormone'? As both genders produce sex hormones, it's not logical to claim such a thing.

But then again, you've already made it abundantly clear that biology doesn't favor heavily into your personal 'logic'.
A cross sex hormone is a hormone that will over time convert your body's chemical and physical composition to better fit within averages of the opposite sex. I won't patronize you on the details.

I will refer you to my original post in which I point out that this process does have side effects on the body and mind where drugs like anti-depressants and sex repressors only do so marginally and without major physiological changes.


No, please, wow me with your biochemistry wizardry. I wanna see where this rabbit hole goes.
I'll do it later. Expect some WebMD articles and other sources on what HRT can and cannot do, side effects of hormone treatment, and some fancy medical terms for that feeling of having a ghost limb when the real one gets maimed, sexual pleasure/sexual function after sex change surgery, ect.

In the mean time, I trust I don't need to tell you about hormones in boys and girls or about what happens when you cut, rearrange, and stitch up flesh with a scalpel.
WalkingEnigma
Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Nobody forces sex changes on anyone, it is an option for people who believe that they were born with the wrong parts. If they don't want anti-depressants, if what they want is their d**k exchanged for a v****a (or vise versa) and a pair of tits put on (or removed)... What is the harm in that? So they can't have kids, big deal.

Even if sex changes were forced on people, in what way would that be different from forcing them to take anti-depressants instead?

I'm on anti-depressants, if my problems could be solved by a sex change I'd do that. I am not, however, a transgender so such a surgery would be pointless and damaging to my psyche. For people who are transgender the surgery would be beneficial.
Health is about more than just doing what you want. If you want to lob off your head you'd probably be found in poor/no health by the people who noticed you missing.

Anti-depressants can greatly boost your mood, and sex repressors can take away those self mutilating desires that you were once so hung up about as a transgendered person. Not only does this buy time for the people trying to preserve your body and your happiness, but it also does away with all of that damage you'd needlessly be inflicted else-wise.

It's about doing what keeps you mentally stable in the long run. If my happiness, and therefore mental stability, can be aided by an optional procedure then there is no harm in it for me as long as I am aware of any side effects that may take away options in future.

You seem to be under the impression that people are being forced to undergo the surgery or are not informed of the side effects. They go into the operating room after taking the time to thoroughly examine their options and how the surgery will impact their life.

Hate to break it to you, but anti-depressants often kill sex drive. My sex drive is presently so low that I've had relationships end on that basis alone. I get interested in sex once every few months, but my reproductive system functions quite normally. This is a massive buzz-kill for any man that I am interested in dating, and while I can't blame them I am unable to function normally at all if I stop the anti-depressants. What would you find sexy about a woman curled up on the floor sobbing with no idea what set her off? Or when her mood swings in another direction and she throws a hissy fit over the placement of a chair? Which then sets her off on the crying fit because she is scared of her own tantrums?

I hate to break it to you, but your answer to all life's mental problems is not the be-all end-all. And if there are other options for people to get the same result, why not just shut up and let them have it? If they are not endangering their lives, or anyone else's, what right do you have to tell them they can't have it?
I'm under no impressions about doctor patient confidentiality or federal laws regarding treatment disclosure to patients. My argument is that society cannot tolerate these kind of optional procedures because they do, in fact, cause physical and mental harm in the long run to people who choose to undergo them, where safer and impermanent options that allow for a better quality of life are available.

These qualities are including, but not limited to: A functioning reproductive system, full nerve endings in the sex organs to maximize the pleasure and fulfillment a person gets from masturbating and having sex, an openly variable choice when it comes to conceiving or having a child conceived in you, and finally, given proper neuro-technology; a mind that is capable of accepting on an emotional level the genitals, nerves, and child making ability that a person has, rather than trying to a very incomplete job of shifting it.


So essentially you are just saying that being transgender is a disease in a very long drawn out way.
In it's most basic form, not being able to emotionally accept something logical like genitals, nerve endings, and body structures as being true and real is a mental disease, yes. I dare say one more severe than the American Psychiatric Association gives it credit for.

Garbage

Jeff the Kitten
In it's most basic form, not being able to emotionally accept something logical like genitals, nerve endings, and body structures as being true and real is a mental disease, yes.
So it's cool that I hate my tits and wanna lop 'em off, as long as I don't go around saying they're "not supposed to be there," 'cause then I'd be a crazy person.

Feral Nymph

Jeff the Kitten
I'll do it later. Expect some WebMD articles and other sources on what HRT can and cannot do, side effects of hormone treatment, and some fancy medical terms for that feeling of having a ghost limb when the real one gets maimed, sexual pleasure/sexual function after sex change surgery, ect.

In the mean time, I trust I don't need to tell you about hormones in boys and girls or about what happens when you cut, rearrange, and stitch up flesh with a scalpel.


WebMD? Don't spoil me, you dog~ Everyone knows WebMD is the best source, especially in complex matters that combine human biochemistry, pharmacology and psychology!
Cassidy Peterson
Jeff the Kitten
In it's most basic form, not being able to emotionally accept something logical like genitals, nerve endings, and body structures as being true and real is a mental disease, yes.
So it's cool that I hate my tits and wanna lop 'em off, as long as I don't go around saying they're "not supposed to be there," 'cause then I'd be a crazy person.
People don't self harm for no reason. If you had breast cancer and wanted to live, that'd be a pretty good reason to get your boobs lobbed off. Doing it for no other reason than that you can't deal with them emotionally is not justified or healthy. You'd be happier with your secondary sex organs than suddenly having a ghost where they used to be and mega big bill if you ever want them back.

Garbage

Jeff the Kitten
no other reason than that you can't deal with them emotionally
Who says there's no other reason?

Jeff the Kitten
You'd be happier with your secondary sex organs than suddenly having a ghost where they used to be and mega big bill if you ever want them back.
And of course, you can objectively prove this.
Pessimist
Jeff the Kitten
I'll do it later. Expect some WebMD articles and other sources on what HRT can and cannot do, side effects of hormone treatment, and some fancy medical terms for that feeling of having a ghost limb when the real one gets maimed, sexual pleasure/sexual function after sex change surgery, ect.

In the mean time, I trust I don't need to tell you about hormones in boys and girls or about what happens when you cut, rearrange, and stitch up flesh with a scalpel.


WebMD? Don't spoil me, you dog~ Everyone knows WebMD is the best source, especially in complex matters that combine human biochemistry, pharmacology and psychology!
WebMD is an accredited website. You can find symptoms and treatments for diseases on that site as well as side effects and uses of a variety of drugs.
Cassidy Peterson
Jeff the Kitten
no other reason than that you can't deal with them emotionally
And who says there's no other reason?
The people who do it? You'd better expect to explain to your doctor and your insurance provider why you want to maim yourself. If your reason in this case isn't breast cancer or that you're transgendered, you're SOL.

Garbage

Jeff the Kitten
If your reason in this case isn't breast cancer or that you're transgendered, you're SOL.
If by "SOL" you mean "paying full price" which has been the plan all along... yeah.

Ah, and I edited my previous post, so if you could respond to the other point I brought up as well, that'd be great.

Shirtless Member

Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Jeff the Kitten
ratgirl34
Nobody forces sex changes on anyone, it is an option for people who believe that they were born with the wrong parts. If they don't want anti-depressants, if what they want is their d**k exchanged for a v****a (or vise versa) and a pair of tits put on (or removed)... What is the harm in that? So they can't have kids, big deal.

Even if sex changes were forced on people, in what way would that be different from forcing them to take anti-depressants instead?

I'm on anti-depressants, if my problems could be solved by a sex change I'd do that. I am not, however, a transgender so such a surgery would be pointless and damaging to my psyche. For people who are transgender the surgery would be beneficial.
Health is about more than just doing what you want. If you want to lob off your head you'd probably be found in poor/no health by the people who noticed you missing.

Anti-depressants can greatly boost your mood, and sex repressors can take away those self mutilating desires that you were once so hung up about as a transgendered person. Not only does this buy time for the people trying to preserve your body and your happiness, but it also does away with all of that damage you'd needlessly be inflicted else-wise.

It's about doing what keeps you mentally stable in the long run. If my happiness, and therefore mental stability, can be aided by an optional procedure then there is no harm in it for me as long as I am aware of any side effects that may take away options in future.

You seem to be under the impression that people are being forced to undergo the surgery or are not informed of the side effects. They go into the operating room after taking the time to thoroughly examine their options and how the surgery will impact their life.

Hate to break it to you, but anti-depressants often kill sex drive. My sex drive is presently so low that I've had relationships end on that basis alone. I get interested in sex once every few months, but my reproductive system functions quite normally. This is a massive buzz-kill for any man that I am interested in dating, and while I can't blame them I am unable to function normally at all if I stop the anti-depressants. What would you find sexy about a woman curled up on the floor sobbing with no idea what set her off? Or when her mood swings in another direction and she throws a hissy fit over the placement of a chair? Which then sets her off on the crying fit because she is scared of her own tantrums?

I hate to break it to you, but your answer to all life's mental problems is not the be-all end-all. And if there are other options for people to get the same result, why not just shut up and let them have it? If they are not endangering their lives, or anyone else's, what right do you have to tell them they can't have it?
I'm under no impressions about doctor patient confidentiality or federal laws regarding treatment disclosure to patients. My argument is that society cannot tolerate these kind of optional procedures because they do, in fact, cause physical and mental harm in the long run to people who choose to undergo them, where safer and impermanent options that allow for a better quality of life are available.

These qualities are including, but not limited to: A functioning reproductive system, full nerve endings in the sex organs to maximize the pleasure and fulfillment a person gets from masturbating and having sex, an openly variable choice when it comes to conceiving or having a child conceived in you, and finally, given proper neuro-technology; a mind that is capable of accepting on an emotional level the genitals, nerves, and child making ability that a person has, rather than trying to a very incomplete job of shifting it.

Yeah, you're a bit of a nut job. Not all people need to have kids to feel complete.

That you hinge all your 'logic' on that is a serious flaw that I don't wish to pursue. Have fun rubbing two brain cells together.

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