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Dapper Shade

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Uh, hers was never missing? She was just trapped in the world of darkness. She never had her heart taken.
Ahh see I would know that if I had finished birth by sleep, Still that's a bit of misleading dialogue it implied they found her heart.

Edit: but then that makes a more interesting question. The final Mix version of KH2 says that "Xehanort's other friend" is in a chamber on the opposite side of the Hollow bastion castle than the one where Ven's armor is located. Since Xehanort is Terra, that could only mean Aqua and if Aqua was trapped in the darkness than that means that chamber connects to the darkness or did Aqua loose her armor.


Birth By Sleep would answer that. It also tells you where Ven is and explains some things about Chain of Memories.
BBS is easily dah best game in the franchise.

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Uh, hers was never missing? She was just trapped in the world of darkness. She never had her heart taken.
Ahh see I would know that if I had finished birth by sleep, Still that's a bit of misleading dialogue it implied they found her heart.

Edit: but then that makes a more interesting question. The final Mix version of KH2 says that "Xehanort's other friend" is in a chamber on the opposite side of the Hollow bastion castle than the one where Ven's armor is located. Since Xehanort is Terra, that could only mean Aqua and if Aqua was trapped in the darkness than that means that chamber connects to the darkness or did Aqua loose her armor.


Birth By Sleep would answer that. It also tells you where Ven is and explains some things about Chain of Memories.
BBS is easily dah best game in the franchise.
I already just assumed that ven became a part of Sora, Seeing as Roxas looks so much like him, he shared Sora's heart so that he wouldn't fade away, and in his ending he seems to be floating into a light saying "its your heart" But even before BBS came out I just assumed it was something like that.

Also, Nah KH2 is better so far, Plot wise they add a bit more but the combat is a bit lacking and I'm not to fond of leveling up the abilities to keep the boosts and such gameplay. Its a bit too random. but I'll just hold off until I finish all three and the final episode.

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I've played everything aside from the entirety of Birth by Sleep, thus far, so I know the mythos to a significant degree.
The reason I say it's confusing is because, to new players, it can be, since, as you pointed out, new players to the series tend to focus on the main entries on consoles, thus missing a lot of context.
But even when properly following things by playing each game in sequence, I've still seen a few people get confused. Especially with the whole "Who's who" regarding the Nobodies within Org. 13.

Also, I'm aware that the lack of memories was due to being separated from their other halves, but even though the cause is different the effect is still basically the same; they've forgotten bits and pieces about who they truly are, about parts of their past, back when they were whole.
It's not that far off from being an amnesiac, in essence if not in practice.


I agree they made it just a bit too convoluted, but really though from what I understand (from what I saw of the cutscenes in Days from 1.5) only Roxas really had no Idea who he use to be, the others remembered not only what it was like to have a heart but also what their true names were. Roxas was a special case as far as amnesia went.

The part I get confused at is the plot where Xehanort was trying to give all the nobodies all the same heart as him and that was really his true plain when he ran organization 13 or like how they said "eventually a heart will return to a nobody" when before everyone was saying they would linger between the edge of nothingness forever. XD

Also Ven's Dark half looking like Sora makes no sense because it wasn't until after they were separated that Ven borrowed power from Sora's heart to make his own heart whole.


If i remember another theory, it was that since the time that sora spent as a heartless, which was practically maybe 15 minutes in that time, roxas had not fully if at all developed his memories and in which case was born with practically no memories of his past at all as a result. So this could explain why, kinda like a baby being born with lack of oxygen even at the last part of delivery and resulting in some sort of brain damage. *shrugs*

I believe xehanort gave them the darkness in his heart, not actually giving them his heart...or i may be mistaken and it actually is how you say it, but that really complicated stuff even more for me when i saw that cutscene :l anyway, i think that since Ansem was finding a way to give heartless a heart as said in one of the reports, you could possibly do the same for a Nobody whom which lacks a heart as well so why couldnt the same procedure be taken to try it out? So...maybe thats how he gave them pieces of his heart/darkness in himself...? *very slow shrug* thats just a large guess.

I think that Vanitas acquires a face only at the very end? O.o like after that event i mean. I dont recall seeing his face at all until the point where the failed X blade was forged. So during that time after ventus sees sora and acquires the second piece to his heart or whatever, vanitas takes form of it and thus looks like sora... *facepalms* i dunno if im making much sense but thats how i saw it.


The first part actually does make a bit of sense.

Eh, what ever you make of it Xehanort was in the end, unarguably, making everyone him, that's the entire point of why they all shared that yellow eye color to show they all had the same link. I believe Braig even says he himself is Xehanort.

Vanitus always had a face, he just never took his mask off until the end and he took it off before Ven and him combined and had the failed X-blade battle. Anyway The point is that He is suppose to be the darkness of Ven's heart entirely so he should probably just look like Ven, but I think they were heavily trying to push that Yin-yang kind of mentality since Roxas looked like ven and already played Sora's dark half. It doesn't make sense but before the game was being developed making Vanitus look like Sora was probably already a given. I just wish that it made more sense. XD
I sometimes feel the KH fan base can't critical think well. *sigh*

Xehanort was using Organization XIII to place portions of his heart inside of them since they had no heart to resist with. They all believed they would linger forever between light and dark because what Xehanort, the person who found them and explained to them what they are, told them. They had no reason to disbelieve him. The entire goal of his is to gather the Thirteen Darknesses for his ambitions. He is trying to basically cheat this by making thirteen versions of himself so that he will easily have the thirteen he needs, while the worlds of light struggle to find the Seven Lights.

As for Vanitas, yes, you're right, he does take his helmet off earlier. But no one ever sees him with it off until then. Who is to say he didn't have a face until the later point? Similar to how Xion has no face of her own, and takes a different appearance depending on who is looking at it. Such as Xion looking like Ven to Xigbar, Sora to Roxas, and Xemnas sees it for what it really is.



No, Xehanort isn't the only one that said this as fact first, Ansem the wise thought it as well, he though that none of them would ever have hearts and so did Yen Sid. You say that you think that the fan-base has no critical thinking skills but the pointing out of these things is demonstration of critical thinking. Yen Sid and Ansem have no reason to take Xehanort's word at face value to think nobdies shouldn't exist and will never get a heart.


I very much doubt that considering that they originated in entirely different ways, Xion was created from a multitude of memories all attached to Sora and just different people associated with him. Where as Vanitas is just literally the dark side of Ven's heart ripped out of him. It makes more sense for Xion to change faces because she was made up of different people. Ven's dark heart is still just Ven.
Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

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Uh, hers was never missing? She was just trapped in the world of darkness. She never had her heart taken.
Ahh see I would know that if I had finished birth by sleep, Still that's a bit of misleading dialogue it implied they found her heart.

Edit: but then that makes a more interesting question. The final Mix version of KH2 says that "Xehanort's other friend" is in a chamber on the opposite side of the Hollow bastion castle than the one where Ven's armor is located. Since Xehanort is Terra, that could only mean Aqua and if Aqua was trapped in the darkness than that means that chamber connects to the darkness or did Aqua loose her armor.


Birth By Sleep would answer that. It also tells you where Ven is and explains some things about Chain of Memories.
BBS is easily dah best game in the franchise.
I already just assumed that ven became a part of Sora, Seeing as Roxas looks so much like him, he shared Sora's heart so that he wouldn't fade away, and in his ending he seems to be floating into a light saying "its your heart" But even before BBS came out I just assumed it was something like that.

Also, Nah KH2 is better so far, Plot wise they add a bit more but the combat is a bit lacking and I'm not to fond of leveling up the abilities to keep the boosts and such gameplay. Its a bit too random. but I'll just hold off until I finish all three and the final episode.


I just like Ven and the others. And Vanitas and Master Xehanort are great.
Plus the combat system was nice with the deck and making new commands by fusing them and such.

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If i remember another theory, it was that since the time that sora spent as a heartless, which was practically maybe 15 minutes in that time, roxas had not fully if at all developed his memories and in which case was born with practically no memories of his past at all as a result. So this could explain why, kinda like a baby being born with lack of oxygen even at the last part of delivery and resulting in some sort of brain damage. *shrugs*

I believe xehanort gave them the darkness in his heart, not actually giving them his heart...or i may be mistaken and it actually is how you say it, but that really complicated stuff even more for me when i saw that cutscene :l anyway, i think that since Ansem was finding a way to give heartless a heart as said in one of the reports, you could possibly do the same for a Nobody whom which lacks a heart as well so why couldnt the same procedure be taken to try it out? So...maybe thats how he gave them pieces of his heart/darkness in himself...? *very slow shrug* thats just a large guess.

I think that Vanitas acquires a face only at the very end? O.o like after that event i mean. I dont recall seeing his face at all until the point where the failed X blade was forged. So during that time after ventus sees sora and acquires the second piece to his heart or whatever, vanitas takes form of it and thus looks like sora... *facepalms* i dunno if im making much sense but thats how i saw it.


The first part actually does make a bit of sense.

Eh, what ever you make of it Xehanort was in the end, unarguably, making everyone him, that's the entire point of why they all shared that yellow eye color to show they all had the same link. I believe Braig even says he himself is Xehanort.

Vanitus always had a face, he just never took his mask off until the end and he took it off before Ven and him combined and had the failed X-blade battle. Anyway The point is that He is suppose to be the darkness of Ven's heart entirely so he should probably just look like Ven, but I think they were heavily trying to push that Yin-yang kind of mentality since Roxas looked like ven and already played Sora's dark half. It doesn't make sense but before the game was being developed making Vanitus look like Sora was probably already a given. I just wish that it made more sense. XD
I sometimes feel the KH fan base can't critical think well. *sigh*

Xehanort was using Organization XIII to place portions of his heart inside of them since they had no heart to resist with. They all believed they would linger forever between light and dark because what Xehanort, the person who found them and explained to them what they are, told them. They had no reason to disbelieve him. The entire goal of his is to gather the Thirteen Darknesses for his ambitions. He is trying to basically cheat this by making thirteen versions of himself so that he will easily have the thirteen he needs, while the worlds of light struggle to find the Seven Lights.

As for Vanitas, yes, you're right, he does take his helmet off earlier. But no one ever sees him with it off until then. Who is to say he didn't have a face until the later point? Similar to how Xion has no face of her own, and takes a different appearance depending on who is looking at it. Such as Xion looking like Ven to Xigbar, Sora to Roxas, and Xemnas sees it for what it really is.



No, Xehanort isn't the only one that said this as fact first, Ansem the wise thought it as well, he though that none of them would ever have hearts and so did Yen Sid. You say that you think that the fan-base has no critical thinking skills but the pointing out of these things is demonstration of critical thinking. Yen Sid and Ansem have no reason to take Xehanort's word at face value to think nobdies shouldn't exist and will never get a heart.


I very much doubt that considering that they originated in entirely different ways, Xion was created from a multitude of memories all attached to Sora and just different people associated with him. Where as Vanitas is just literally the dark side of Ven's heart ripped out of him. It makes more sense for Xion to change faces because she was made up of different people. Ven's dark heart is still just Ven.
Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.

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Uh, hers was never missing? She was just trapped in the world of darkness. She never had her heart taken.
Ahh see I would know that if I had finished birth by sleep, Still that's a bit of misleading dialogue it implied they found her heart.

Edit: but then that makes a more interesting question. The final Mix version of KH2 says that "Xehanort's other friend" is in a chamber on the opposite side of the Hollow bastion castle than the one where Ven's armor is located. Since Xehanort is Terra, that could only mean Aqua and if Aqua was trapped in the darkness than that means that chamber connects to the darkness or did Aqua loose her armor.


Birth By Sleep would answer that. It also tells you where Ven is and explains some things about Chain of Memories.
BBS is easily dah best game in the franchise.
I already just assumed that ven became a part of Sora, Seeing as Roxas looks so much like him, he shared Sora's heart so that he wouldn't fade away, and in his ending he seems to be floating into a light saying "its your heart" But even before BBS came out I just assumed it was something like that.

Also, Nah KH2 is better so far, Plot wise they add a bit more but the combat is a bit lacking and I'm not to fond of leveling up the abilities to keep the boosts and such gameplay. Its a bit too random. but I'll just hold off until I finish all three and the final episode.


I just like Ven and the others. And Vanitas and Master Xehanort are great.
Plus the combat system was nice with the deck and making new commands by fusing them and such.
Oh the deck commands and the fusing are nice, but I just don't like the crystal element that makes you level them to max so you can keep the bonuses I'd rather the HP boost and such just be based on AP and leveling.

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If i remember another theory, it was that since the time that sora spent as a heartless, which was practically maybe 15 minutes in that time, roxas had not fully if at all developed his memories and in which case was born with practically no memories of his past at all as a result. So this could explain why, kinda like a baby being born with lack of oxygen even at the last part of delivery and resulting in some sort of brain damage. *shrugs*

I believe xehanort gave them the darkness in his heart, not actually giving them his heart...or i may be mistaken and it actually is how you say it, but that really complicated stuff even more for me when i saw that cutscene :l anyway, i think that since Ansem was finding a way to give heartless a heart as said in one of the reports, you could possibly do the same for a Nobody whom which lacks a heart as well so why couldnt the same procedure be taken to try it out? So...maybe thats how he gave them pieces of his heart/darkness in himself...? *very slow shrug* thats just a large guess.

I think that Vanitas acquires a face only at the very end? O.o like after that event i mean. I dont recall seeing his face at all until the point where the failed X blade was forged. So during that time after ventus sees sora and acquires the second piece to his heart or whatever, vanitas takes form of it and thus looks like sora... *facepalms* i dunno if im making much sense but thats how i saw it.


The first part actually does make a bit of sense.

Eh, what ever you make of it Xehanort was in the end, unarguably, making everyone him, that's the entire point of why they all shared that yellow eye color to show they all had the same link. I believe Braig even says he himself is Xehanort.

Vanitus always had a face, he just never took his mask off until the end and he took it off before Ven and him combined and had the failed X-blade battle. Anyway The point is that He is suppose to be the darkness of Ven's heart entirely so he should probably just look like Ven, but I think they were heavily trying to push that Yin-yang kind of mentality since Roxas looked like ven and already played Sora's dark half. It doesn't make sense but before the game was being developed making Vanitus look like Sora was probably already a given. I just wish that it made more sense. XD
I sometimes feel the KH fan base can't critical think well. *sigh*

Xehanort was using Organization XIII to place portions of his heart inside of them since they had no heart to resist with. They all believed they would linger forever between light and dark because what Xehanort, the person who found them and explained to them what they are, told them. They had no reason to disbelieve him. The entire goal of his is to gather the Thirteen Darknesses for his ambitions. He is trying to basically cheat this by making thirteen versions of himself so that he will easily have the thirteen he needs, while the worlds of light struggle to find the Seven Lights.

As for Vanitas, yes, you're right, he does take his helmet off earlier. But no one ever sees him with it off until then. Who is to say he didn't have a face until the later point? Similar to how Xion has no face of her own, and takes a different appearance depending on who is looking at it. Such as Xion looking like Ven to Xigbar, Sora to Roxas, and Xemnas sees it for what it really is.



No, Xehanort isn't the only one that said this as fact first, Ansem the wise thought it as well, he though that none of them would ever have hearts and so did Yen Sid. You say that you think that the fan-base has no critical thinking skills but the pointing out of these things is demonstration of critical thinking. Yen Sid and Ansem have no reason to take Xehanort's word at face value to think nobdies shouldn't exist and will never get a heart.


I very much doubt that considering that they originated in entirely different ways, Xion was created from a multitude of memories all attached to Sora and just different people associated with him. Where as Vanitas is just literally the dark side of Ven's heart ripped out of him. It makes more sense for Xion to change faces because she was made up of different people. Ven's dark heart is still just Ven.
Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.
You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?

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I sometimes feel the KH fan base can't critical think well. *sigh*

Xehanort was using Organization XIII to place portions of his heart inside of them since they had no heart to resist with. They all believed they would linger forever between light and dark because what Xehanort, the person who found them and explained to them what they are, told them. They had no reason to disbelieve him. The entire goal of his is to gather the Thirteen Darknesses for his ambitions. He is trying to basically cheat this by making thirteen versions of himself so that he will easily have the thirteen he needs, while the worlds of light struggle to find the Seven Lights.

As for Vanitas, yes, you're right, he does take his helmet off earlier. But no one ever sees him with it off until then. Who is to say he didn't have a face until the later point? Similar to how Xion has no face of her own, and takes a different appearance depending on who is looking at it. Such as Xion looking like Ven to Xigbar, Sora to Roxas, and Xemnas sees it for what it really is.



No, Xehanort isn't the only one that said this as fact first, Ansem the wise thought it as well, he though that none of them would ever have hearts and so did Yen Sid. You say that you think that the fan-base has no critical thinking skills but the pointing out of these things is demonstration of critical thinking. Yen Sid and Ansem have no reason to take Xehanort's word at face value to think nobdies shouldn't exist and will never get a heart.


I very much doubt that considering that they originated in entirely different ways, Xion was created from a multitude of memories all attached to Sora and just different people associated with him. Where as Vanitas is just literally the dark side of Ven's heart ripped out of him. It makes more sense for Xion to change faces because she was made up of different people. Ven's dark heart is still just Ven.
Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.
You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?

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I sometimes feel the KH fan base can't critical think well. *sigh*

Xehanort was using Organization XIII to place portions of his heart inside of them since they had no heart to resist with. They all believed they would linger forever between light and dark because what Xehanort, the person who found them and explained to them what they are, told them. They had no reason to disbelieve him. The entire goal of his is to gather the Thirteen Darknesses for his ambitions. He is trying to basically cheat this by making thirteen versions of himself so that he will easily have the thirteen he needs, while the worlds of light struggle to find the Seven Lights.

As for Vanitas, yes, you're right, he does take his helmet off earlier. But no one ever sees him with it off until then. Who is to say he didn't have a face until the later point? Similar to how Xion has no face of her own, and takes a different appearance depending on who is looking at it. Such as Xion looking like Ven to Xigbar, Sora to Roxas, and Xemnas sees it for what it really is.



No, Xehanort isn't the only one that said this as fact first, Ansem the wise thought it as well, he though that none of them would ever have hearts and so did Yen Sid. You say that you think that the fan-base has no critical thinking skills but the pointing out of these things is demonstration of critical thinking. Yen Sid and Ansem have no reason to take Xehanort's word at face value to think nobdies shouldn't exist and will never get a heart.


I very much doubt that considering that they originated in entirely different ways, Xion was created from a multitude of memories all attached to Sora and just different people associated with him. Where as Vanitas is just literally the dark side of Ven's heart ripped out of him. It makes more sense for Xion to change faces because she was made up of different people. Ven's dark heart is still just Ven.
Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.
You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?
Yen Sid made a guess at a portion of Xehanort's plan. How does that automatically make him able to see past lies? It doesn't. Yen Sid isn't all seeing. He is wise, but is as likely to fall for it as anyone else when they have Zero knowledge of Nobodies.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've played every game extensively. I know the plot very well.

He has no face, not no need for fresh air. Or simply for dramatic effect. There are many reasons why he may have had it off. Having a helmet off doesn't mean its because they have a face. For all we know, that helmet is very uncomfortable and he just had no need for it at the moment.

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Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.
You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?
Yen Sid made a guess at a portion of Xehanort's plan. How does that automatically make him able to see past lies? It doesn't. Yen Sid isn't all seeing. He is wise, but is as likely to fall for it as anyone else when they have Zero knowledge of Nobodies.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've played every game extensively. I know the plot very well.

He has no face, not no need for fresh air. Or simply for dramatic effect. There are many reasons why he may have had it off. Having a helmet off doesn't mean its because they have a face. For all we know, that helmet is very uncomfortable and he just had no need for it at the moment.


Well how else would he guess that multiple versions of him were coming and warn Mickey beforehand?He'd have to know that his intention was always to resurrect, and the fact that he knew he would have multiple incarnations would imply he knew the secret of the nobodies and that was his intent with kingdom hearts. Its likely that Yen Sid also did his own research entirely considering that he keeps a close eye on the balance of light and dark, I'm just saying its just a bit awkward that he never brought this up in KH 2 and is just like "Nobodies are empty vessels".

He has a face the whole time, Like I said, Vanitas is still an entirely different circumstance. I trump it up to dramatic effect, but the question still remains why does he look like Sora as well for nothing more than dramatic effect? XD

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Ansem the Wise experienced nobodies by spying on Xemnas and infiltrating the Organization. Why wouldn't Ansem believe it? What basis would he have to prove it wrong when he didn't fully understand The Darkness yet Xemnas did? So yes, what I said still stands. Every bit of knowledge on the nobodies stemmed from Xemnas.

Also, you're wrong. Xion wasn't created by memories. She was literally a puppet who was designed to siphon the memories of Sora. So she was created and then filled with Sora's memories.

And lastly, Vanitas was made from the darkness in Ven's heart. Not the heart itself. This is explained in Birth by Sleep. You're asking for explanations but then argue them with knowledge you clearly don't have or else you wouldn't have to ask.

And Yin sid? He obviously didn't get his knowledge from Xenmas or Ansem because he hadn't talked to Ansem the wise for years, the guy just kind of sits in his tower and just magically knows everything like a jedi sensing ripples in the force.

Xion was created from memories, Sora's memories are the basis of her being the Organization called her a puppet purely because she wasn't a nobody. the siphoning of Sora's power to the point that she would become him was an unexpected result. In KH Re Coded you find sora has memories that don't even belong to him, thus Xion was created from not just Sora's memories but others.

It literally shows a big gaping whole where ven's heart is, Semantics aside it is a part of his heart, there is no "if", "and's" or "buts". You can't change ven to not ven if there was no new element introduced. The creation of Vanitus was literally just the dark part of his heart being ripped out and nothing else, so how did he gain Sora's appearance? Also while not showing his face he had taken his helmet off at the beginning of the game and Xehanort was talking to him, so obviously he had to have some kind of face.
You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?
Yen Sid made a guess at a portion of Xehanort's plan. How does that automatically make him able to see past lies? It doesn't. Yen Sid isn't all seeing. He is wise, but is as likely to fall for it as anyone else when they have Zero knowledge of Nobodies.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've played every game extensively. I know the plot very well.

He has no face, not no need for fresh air. Or simply for dramatic effect. There are many reasons why he may have had it off. Having a helmet off doesn't mean its because they have a face. For all we know, that helmet is very uncomfortable and he just had no need for it at the moment.


Well how else would he guess that multiple versions of him were coming and warn Mickey beforehand?He'd have to know that his intention was always to resurrect, and the fact that he knew he would have multiple incarnations would imply he knew the secret of the nobodies and that was his intent with kingdom hearts. Its likely that Yen Sid also did his own research entirely considering that he keeps a close eye on the balance of light and dark, I'm just saying its just a bit awkward that he never brought this up in KH 2 and is just like "Nobodies are empty vessels".

He has a face the whole time, Like I said, Vanitas is still an entirely different circumstance. I trump it up to dramatic effect, but the question still remains why does he look like Sora as well for nothing more than dramatic effect? XD
Yen Sid knew of the multiple Xehanorts because at that point, he knew of two. Ansem Seeker of Darkness and Xemnas. He learned that when a nobody has its heart returned, it becomes whole again. How? Because that happened to Sora. When a Heartless is destroyed, And Nobody destroyed while the heart is freed their whole is restored. When Ansem
SoD is destroyed, just like with any other Heartless, the heart is freed. That heart being Terranort's. Then Xemnas was destroyed. Yen Sid came to the logical conclusion that the same thing that happened to Sora would happen. Xehanort would be revived. What he didn't know was that Xehanort figured out how to use time manipulation to bring versions of himself together. He only knew of the revival. The multiple forms he mentions is referencing his Heartless and Nobody. Yen Sid knew nothing of Xehanort's true plan, which he didn't make until AFTER BBS, as he flat out admits that his first plan for Kingdom Hearts with the x-blade was a failure. Yen Sid isn't as all knowing as you seem to think. If he was, and if he knew half of what you seem to think he does, he would just tell Micky what's up and have him stop it all.

Also, as we never see Vanitas' face until after the fact, we will never know. Hell, I'm willing to bet he DOES change faces, and that the Replica Project is based on him. The fact that Possessed Riku and Replica Riku wear the same armor as him may even support that, though, that's just a personal theory of mine, though it makes sense.

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You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?
Yen Sid made a guess at a portion of Xehanort's plan. How does that automatically make him able to see past lies? It doesn't. Yen Sid isn't all seeing. He is wise, but is as likely to fall for it as anyone else when they have Zero knowledge of Nobodies.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've played every game extensively. I know the plot very well.

He has no face, not no need for fresh air. Or simply for dramatic effect. There are many reasons why he may have had it off. Having a helmet off doesn't mean its because they have a face. For all we know, that helmet is very uncomfortable and he just had no need for it at the moment.


Well how else would he guess that multiple versions of him were coming and warn Mickey beforehand?He'd have to know that his intention was always to resurrect, and the fact that he knew he would have multiple incarnations would imply he knew the secret of the nobodies and that was his intent with kingdom hearts. Its likely that Yen Sid also did his own research entirely considering that he keeps a close eye on the balance of light and dark, I'm just saying its just a bit awkward that he never brought this up in KH 2 and is just like "Nobodies are empty vessels".

He has a face the whole time, Like I said, Vanitas is still an entirely different circumstance. I trump it up to dramatic effect, but the question still remains why does he look like Sora as well for nothing more than dramatic effect? XD
Yen Sid knew of the multiple Xehanorts because at that point, he knew of two. Ansem Seeker of Darkness and Xemnas. He learned that when a nobody has its heart returned, it becomes whole again. How? Because that happened to Sora. When a Heartless is destroyed, And Nobody destroyed while the heart is freed their whole is restored. When Ansem
SoD is destroyed, just like with any other Heartless, the heart is freed. That heart being Terranort's. Then Xemnas was destroyed. Yen Sid came to the logical conclusion that the same thing that happened to Sora would happen. Xehanort would be revived. What he didn't know was that Xehanort figured out how to use time manipulation to bring versions of himself together. He only knew of the revival. The multiple forms he mentions is referencing his Heartless and Nobody. Yen Sid knew nothing of Xehanort's true plan, which he didn't make until AFTER BBS, as he flat out admits that his first plan for Kingdom Hearts with the x-blade was a failure. Yen Sid isn't as all knowing as you seem to think. If he was, and if he knew half of what you seem to think he does, he would just tell Micky what's up and have him stop it all.

Also, as we never see Vanitas' face until after the fact, we will never know. Hell, I'm willing to bet he DOES change faces, and that the Replica Project is based on him. The fact that Possessed Riku and Replica Riku wear the same armor as him may even support that, though, that's just a personal theory of mine, though it makes sense.


But you see that wouldn't be a logical conclusion to come to, with the body gone and the heart just wandering around it would be far more likely that his heart would just be swallowed up by another heartless, it has no place to go back to. As well if that were the case mickey would also jump to the same conclusion as mickey himself had been there when Terra changed into terranort. Like I said I just find all of this area just a little grey in general, it just makes more sense that he would actually know about his intention with the nobodies.

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I wonder when and if the Kingdom Hearts 2.5 player's guide will ever come out.

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You do realize that the ending of Birth by Sleep is ten years before the start of the first game? Which
means eleven years before Sora meets him in KHII. Ten years is plenty of time to have spoken to ansem, be filled in, and it be years since having spoke to him. Not to mention Xemnas was created just before the ending of BBS.

Xion was created at Castle Oblivion. About the time they finished testing the Replica project. It was created then filled with memories. Just like the other Replicas. That is explained clearly in Days.

If I remember correctly, Xehanort had his back to Vanitas when he spoke to him while his helmet was off. And even if he had been facing him, you're implying one has to have a face to be spoken to? He easily could have had no face. What would Xehanort have cared?


Yen Sid also displays that he knows of Xehanorts plans though in advanced, though, he accurately predicted that he knew Xehanort would resurrect with multiples of himself. So, this implies that Yen Sid would know that Xehanort was lying to the nobodies in the first place and yet he acts like them never getting heart and that they are husks and they are destined to fade back into darkness.

And now that I look at her wiki you are clearly right about Xion being a puppet I've never played days and I guess that's just the limitations of watching the cut-scenes because I don't recall her ever having a blank face. probably would have been explained in the reports (but after watching a bunch of cut-scenes you really aren't in the mood for reading), I do recall them saying she was constructed and then filled with memories

He walked by uncaring but its pretty clear that when he reached him he stared at him as he walked by. Why would Vanitas care to ever take off his helmet if he never had one?
Yen Sid made a guess at a portion of Xehanort's plan. How does that automatically make him able to see past lies? It doesn't. Yen Sid isn't all seeing. He is wise, but is as likely to fall for it as anyone else when they have Zero knowledge of Nobodies.

Hate to say it, but I told you so. I've played every game extensively. I know the plot very well.

He has no face, not no need for fresh air. Or simply for dramatic effect. There are many reasons why he may have had it off. Having a helmet off doesn't mean its because they have a face. For all we know, that helmet is very uncomfortable and he just had no need for it at the moment.


Well how else would he guess that multiple versions of him were coming and warn Mickey beforehand?He'd have to know that his intention was always to resurrect, and the fact that he knew he would have multiple incarnations would imply he knew the secret of the nobodies and that was his intent with kingdom hearts. Its likely that Yen Sid also did his own research entirely considering that he keeps a close eye on the balance of light and dark, I'm just saying its just a bit awkward that he never brought this up in KH 2 and is just like "Nobodies are empty vessels".

He has a face the whole time, Like I said, Vanitas is still an entirely different circumstance. I trump it up to dramatic effect, but the question still remains why does he look like Sora as well for nothing more than dramatic effect? XD
Yen Sid knew of the multiple Xehanorts because at that point, he knew of two. Ansem Seeker of Darkness and Xemnas. He learned that when a nobody has its heart returned, it becomes whole again. How? Because that happened to Sora. When a Heartless is destroyed, And Nobody destroyed while the heart is freed their whole is restored. When Ansem
SoD is destroyed, just like with any other Heartless, the heart is freed. That heart being Terranort's. Then Xemnas was destroyed. Yen Sid came to the logical conclusion that the same thing that happened to Sora would happen. Xehanort would be revived. What he didn't know was that Xehanort figured out how to use time manipulation to bring versions of himself together. He only knew of the revival. The multiple forms he mentions is referencing his Heartless and Nobody. Yen Sid knew nothing of Xehanort's true plan, which he didn't make until AFTER BBS, as he flat out admits that his first plan for Kingdom Hearts with the x-blade was a failure. Yen Sid isn't as all knowing as you seem to think. If he was, and if he knew half of what you seem to think he does, he would just tell Micky what's up and have him stop it all.

Also, as we never see Vanitas' face until after the fact, we will never know. Hell, I'm willing to bet he DOES change faces, and that the Replica Project is based on him. The fact that Possessed Riku and Replica Riku wear the same armor as him may even support that, though, that's just a personal theory of mine, though it makes sense.


But you see that wouldn't be a logical conclusion to come to, with the body gone and the heart just wandering around it would be far more likely that his heart would just be swallowed up by another heartless, it has no place to go back to. As well if that were the case mickey would also jump to the same conclusion as mickey himself had been there when Terra changed into terranort. Like I said I just find all of this area just a little grey in general, it just makes more sense that he would actually know about his intention with the nobodies.
How is it not a logical conclusion to come to? They had seen it happen before with Sora. Also, why would Micky make that conclusion? For one, he didn't actually see that happen. He was helping Aqua fight Vanitas when Terra lost his body to Xehanort. And even if he had, how would that suddenly make him any more knowledgeable about nobodies or how to restore someone? It wouldn't. It's not at all a grey area when you actually play AND finish each game and pay close attention. Reading the reports to each game also helps. And it doesn't make sense that he would suddenly know about nobodies just because. He had to get the knowledge from someone else. And if everyone was going by the thinking that they will just he husks between light and dark forever, which was a blatant lie that Xemnas told, which only Xigbar knew was a lie, then logic dictates that when Ansem infiltrated the organization, he got that info from one of the memories who honestly believed it, who then passed the knowledge to Yen Sid, who then passed it to Mickey and etc. And all further research they did was under the belief that nobodies were just husks.
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