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Do you want them to be together?

Definately! 0.5 50.0% [ 225 ]
Maybe 0.26 26.0% [ 117 ]
No Way! 0.24 24.0% [ 108 ]
Total Votes:[ 450 ]
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I found the pairing very random and it didn't really add anything to the story at all, except to get people to think Tonks had a thing for her cousin once removed. I really like Remus, and Tonks (pre-HBP anyway), but them together really felt so completely pointless to me. It's probably just me.

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innocentwitch7
Everyone here claims that Lupin/Tonks is random, well isn't Lupin and Sirius? They are FRIENDS. So what if Lupin is living with Sirius? They were part of the Order and Lupin needed a place to stay. Sirius, if you read the book clearly, stayed with James for a while. Does that mean Sirius/James? No. Harry stays with Ron all the time. Harry/Ron? No.


Okay...so Sirius has been in prison for twelve years leaving Remus by himself and suddenly Sirius is out of prison and now Remus needs a place to say. Pardon my French, but that's a bullshit excuse and I am saddened that no one pointed that out before.

Also, to the person who said that James and Sirius were the really close ones, so where's this Remus/Sirius stuff coming from?

Here:

I don't quite understand this argument, because people have friends and lovers, and one does not negate the other. This is particularly in the case of men who, it is said, bond through activities more than discussion, and even more true of someone like Sirius, who is very different from his alleged lover, and thus would probably need someone to go be his immature a*****e self with, activities which Remus is singularly ill-equipped for, being... well, Remus. Different people, after all, play into and encourage different behavior - perhaps Sirius relished the quiet and stability of Remus, while still loving the jubilance and wild times he had with James (that is not meant to be shippy.)

Furthermore, he can't be fixated on James 24/7 - James got married and had a kid. If all Sirius did was obsess over his Very Best Friend, he would spend most of his time lonely, miserable and bored. Therefore it is reasonable to say that, once James became unavailable, Sirius might have gone elsewhere, even if you do not believe that he could have both of them as large forces in his life simultaneously.


Also, in regards to Dora...I do want Remus to be happy if he does survive the seventh book. But, being forced into a relationship does not make me a happy camper. I just feel that Dora had no right to force her feelings onto Remus, especially just after the death of Albus Dumbledore and Bill Weasley's injured status. She had no right to take a personal issue between her and Remus and make it into a issue between her, Remus, Harry, Hermione, Ron, Molly, Fleur, Minvera, and whoever the hell else was there. Dora was acting like a selfish child who didn't get the Barbie she wanted for Christmas than a thinking, mature adult. That is why I don't like them being together.

Remus and Dora can be happy, but Dora needs to grow up first. stare

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Ex-Professor Remus Lupin
innocentwitch7
Everyone here claims that Lupin/Tonks is random, well isn't Lupin and Sirius? They are FRIENDS. So what if Lupin is living with Sirius? They were part of the Order and Lupin needed a place to stay. Sirius, if you read the book clearly, stayed with James for a while. Does that mean Sirius/James? No. Harry stays with Ron all the time. Harry/Ron? No.


Okay...so Sirius has been in prison for twelve years leaving Remus by himself and suddenly Sirius is out of prison and now Remus needs a place to say. Pardon my French, but that's a bullshit excuse and I am saddened that no one pointed that out before.


While you have a point there, I think it's possible they don't actually mean "Lupin was homeless." smile Sure, he obviously was living somewhere all his life, and it's not like he was evicted a day before Sirius inherited the Black house. However, isn't it still entirely possible that Lupin simply preferred a different place to stay, a place where he was in constant contact with the Order, not living alone, and could keep his lonely, bored old friend company on the side, not to mention possibly run errands for the household, which it seems someone would have to do, since Sirius is under house arrest for all intents and purposes? And that scenario could easily take place without him being romantically involved with Sirius. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think people are just trying to express that Lupin living in the house doesn't have any necessary implications at all.

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Also, to the person who said that James and Sirius were the really close ones, so where's this Remus/Sirius stuff coming from?


I don't know who this was aimed at, but since I think I'm guilty of having expressed that sentiment before, my reply would be:
I don't mean to say Remus and Sirius aren't close friends. And I definitely don't mean to say James and Sirius were lovers. If I ever say things like that, I probably mean that it seems to me there is much more discussion of the close and special bond between James and Sirius, just as friends, than to any exclusive bond between Sirius and Remus. And it seems off to me that she wouldn't give Sirius and Remus' relationship (that is, a relationship beyond normal friendship) at least as many direct references if she really wanted to imply intimacy between them. When she so easily establishes a specific and unique closeness between Sirius and James in the text, it should also be easy to make Remus and Sirius sound especially close or unusally connected, regardless of romantic intention or not, but she doesn't that I've noticed. To make certain relationships of Sirius' very obvious and then leave others to be covered by nothing more than potential, obscured references and wishful thinking just doesn't connect with me. But, hey, that's just me. And I certainly don't know Ms. Rowling. As it is, I don't find any direct or convincing passages in the text that imply anything more than just good friendship between the two. And I don't mean to imply that any of Sirius' affection for James makes it impossible for him to care about anyone else. I agree with that part. Although I might argue he doesn't seem to display anything anywhere near the affection he has for James for anyone else (besides Harry), which has always made the likelihood of his being in a really serious relationship seem improbable, similar to the way Rowling admitted he had no time for a girlfriend, much less a wife.


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Also, in regards to Dora...I do want Remus to be happy if he does survive the seventh book. But, being forced into a relationship does not make me a happy camper. I just feel that Dora had no right to force her feelings onto Remus, especially just after the death of Albus Dumbledore and Bill Weasley's injured status. She had no right to take a personal issue between her and Remus and make it into a issue between her, Remus, Harry, Hermione, Ron, Molly, Fleur, Minvera, and whoever the hell else was there. Dora was acting like a selfish child who didn't get the Barbie she wanted for Christmas than a thinking, mature adult. That is why I don't like them being together.


Well, I agree 100% that Tonks had no business bringing that up then. It was totally inappropriate and embarrassing. And if he gave in to her just to save fave in front of everyone, that would be way wrong. Hopefully Remus knows better. He seems like he does.

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Glad someone besides the R/S shippers and one random none Remus fan agrees with me on that. Okay...I have a response to the thing about James too... ^_^

Sirius was clearly fixated on James.

I see this perspective presented very often, and it is often accepted as obvious fact.

First of all, I would say that, if Sirius was fixated, there is equal evidence that James was as well (they were mutually close, after all, and Sirius is capable of influencing James immensely, in ways no one else could, apparently.) So one might say, fine they were equally fixated on one another, which is possible, but James also had a terrible crush on Lily, and eventually became involved with and married her, thus proving that one could be so fixated and yet maintain romantic feelings for someone else. In other words, if they were mutually fixated (and I'm not saying they were) but James could still love Lily, there is no reason to assume that the fixation would preclude Sirius from loving Remus.

Second of all, I would actually disagree that Sirius is fixated on James before Azkaban to begin with. Certainly they're close, certainly they show great friendship, but the pensieve scene reads, in my opinion, like a group of friends with two ringleaders who are best friends, rather than like a group of friends with two ring leaders who are obsessed with each other/wherein one is obsessed with the other. They were simply best mates. Very close, lifelong friends level best mates. Absolutely nothing that would imply that either of them is incapable of sustaining a relationship outside their friendship, unless everyone who's ever had a long-term best friend is also incapable of doing so.

It seems to me that the idea of Sirius obsessing on James is influenced primarily by his post-Azkaban behavior, which is not the best way, in my view, to judge. Certainly, by then he is preoccupied with James' memory, but this cannot necessarily be backwards extrapolated to mean he was preoccupied with James while James was alive. By then, Sirius has spent 12 years on regrets, obsessing over his mistake, and knowing that he essentially caused his best friend's death. I would consider the fixation (which I actually think is still rather overstated, but that's an opinion) a result of the trauma of his own actions backfiring in such a disastrous way, followed by years of thinking about it in Azkaban while Dementors suck on his memories, rather than evidence that, even as a teenager or young man, Sirius was just That Obsessed with James.

Best mates, yes, absolutely. Obsessed to the point of being incapable of sustaining a romantic relationship? In my opinion, no.



Anything else? I can do this all night? xd

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Ex-Professor Remus Lupin
Also, in regards to Dora...I do want Remus to be happy if he does survive the seventh book. But, being forced into a relationship does not make me a happy camper. I just feel that Dora had no right to force her feelings onto Remus, especially just after the death of Albus Dumbledore and Bill Weasley's injured status. She had no right to take a personal issue between her and Remus and make it into a issue between her, Remus, Harry, Hermione, Ron, Molly, Fleur, Minvera, and whoever the hell else was there. Dora was acting like a selfish child who didn't get the Barbie she wanted for Christmas than a thinking, mature adult. That is why I don't like them being together.

Remus and Dora can be happy, but Dora needs to grow up first. stare
I do agree that it was rather inappropriate for Dora to bring up their personal matters at infront of everyone, but I do believe that Mr. and Mrs. Weasley at least knew what was going on with them. And possibley Fleur, Bill, and McGonagall ( I don't know this, but I was under the impression that they were concidering they weren't shocked at all and they supported Dora.) But I don't think that she was intentionally forcing her feelings on Remus. When he gives her reasons like "I'm too old, too dangerous, too poor, etc." that makes her think "Oh, he loves me, he's just afraid for me. How manly of him, but he should really quit that because I've already thought that over and I love him anyway" not, "Well, that sucks, but it looks like he doesn't love me so I suppose I should just move on with my life... =D"

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To quote myself:

CaptainJames
And I don't mean to imply that any of Sirius' affection for James makes it impossible for him to care about anyone else. I agree with that part.


^_- Oh, I agree with you. People are capable of loving many people at one time and should be. Imagine the world if they weren't!

Sorry if it seemed I was saying I think Sirius is fixated on James. That's not the case. I do think it seems that they represented to each other something it would be hard for anyone else to replace. This doesn't, of course, mean that they can't love other people. The argument I was trying to make, but must not have suceeded at, was that the text seems to lack implication that Sirius and Remus mean something similar to each other. And in comparing Rowling's treatment of the two relationships, not in the sense that one overshadows the other, but merely as two examples because they both happen to often get treatment simultaneously, it doesn't seem that Rowling meant to imply anything about Sirius and Remus. I never meant to imply that Sirius can't love Remus because he loves James. Really.

Your, in my opinion, very true point that James and Sirius could be just close friends with no implication of "fixation" just encourages me to believe that Remus and Sirius could even more easily be just friends with no implication of romance. That's all I meant.

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Certainly they're close, certainly they show great friendship, but the pensieve scene reads, in my opinion, like a group of friends with two ringleaders who are best friends, rather than like a group of friends with two ring leaders who are obsessed with each other/wherein one is obsessed with the other.


I mostly agree with you. Indeed, I think the the Marauders as a whole read like good friends, which is why any romance between them strikes me as a bit forced.

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Anything else? I can do this all night? xd


XD Mmm, I love debating too, obviously. Heh. Thanks, as usual, for keeping it cool.

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Another random piece of information about me that really only says one thing about why I support Remus/Sirius. I saw something when Remus dropped his briefcase in Prisoner of Azkaban. I saw something during that forty line stare. I saw something more in the way that Remus went from asking Harry about why Sirius deserved to be given the Dementors kiss after twelve years of accepting that he was guilty and Peter was innocent to ready and willing to kill Peter in cold blood. I saw something that went beyond just friendship.

Also, sometimes the greatest love in our life starts by being a friend.

Of course, that's just how I see it.

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Remus doesn't belong with Tonks, he belongs with my fan fic character Lydia! evil

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CaptainJames
Nope. Foofbunny is right. Tonks and Sirius are cousins once removed. Sirius and Andromeda are first cousins. If Sirius had a kid, Tonks and that kid would be second cousins.

I think legality of incest-pairings depends on where you live.
Theyre second cousins. My cousins has a baby, her baby is my second cousin.
A cousin= the child of a sibling of one of your parents
2nd cousin= the child of your cousin

Sirius is Tnks second cousin
*knows this because she is a second cousin*Unless you Americans call it something else, otherwise Tonks and Sirius are second cousins 3nodding

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Svenskaflicka
Remus doesn't belong with Tonks, he belongs with my fan fic character Lydia! evil


It's people like you that make me what to pull a Johnny the Homicidal Maniac on the idiots of the world.

Also, in response to the cousin arguement. If my cousin has a child, it will be my second cousin. If I have a child, my child and my cousin's child will be third cousins.

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Holmol
CaptainJames
Nope. Foofbunny is right. Tonks and Sirius are cousins once removed. Sirius and Andromeda are first cousins. If Sirius had a kid, Tonks and that kid would be second cousins.

I think legality of incest-pairings depends on where you live.
Theyre second cousins. My cousins has a baby, her baby is my second cousin.
A cousin= the child of a sibling of one of your parents
2nd cousin= the child of your cousin

Sirius is Tnks second cousin
*knows this because she is a second cousin*Unless you Americans call it something else, otherwise Tonks and Sirius are second cousins 3nodding


Well, if this is a British vs American terminology war, I can't speak for Great Britain, you're right. But in genealogy, in America, your cousin's child is your first cousin once removed (once removed by the generation gap) and your kid and your cousin's kid are second cousins. And I'm a second cousin, too, of course. My second cousin, among other second cousins, is my mom's cousin's daughter. But, hey, that's just in America maybe. Anyway, I know this because we study genealogy (the study of family history).

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Ex-Professor Remus Lupin
but the simple fact is, I can't prove anything. There is nothing in canon that I can point to and say, "There, that proves they're in love." It could well be that they're were just very close friends who have been extremely lonely for twelve years and are clinging to any companionship they can get.


I agree. There's no canon for most ships out there. And I don't have any problem with people who want to ship what they want to ship despite this (although I prefer it to be IC, which is often not the case). I have my non-canon ships, too. I've never denied that Remus and Sirius are good friends. And I don't have one single thing against gay relationships, so I hope you didn't think this was a personal attack or anything. I was just explaining why I would potentially argue against canon claims of Remus/Sirius, which some people make. That's all. As to how we each personally see it, no problem with our reading it differently. You're just stating your opinions, I'm just stating mine. No need to get all defensive.

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CaptainJames
Holmol
CaptainJames
Nope. Foofbunny is right. Tonks and Sirius are cousins once removed. Sirius and Andromeda are first cousins. If Sirius had a kid, Tonks and that kid would be second cousins.

I think legality of incest-pairings depends on where you live.
Theyre second cousins. My cousins has a baby, her baby is my second cousin.
A cousin= the child of a sibling of one of your parents
2nd cousin= the child of your cousin

Sirius is Tnks second cousin
*knows this because she is a second cousin*Unless you Americans call it something else, otherwise Tonks and Sirius are second cousins 3nodding


Well, if this is a British vs American terminology war, I can't speak for Great Britain, you're right. But in genealogy, in America, your cousin's child is your first cousin once removed (once removed by the generation gap) and your kid and your cousin's kid are second cousins. And I'm a second cousin, too, of course. My second cousin, among other second cousins, is my mom's cousin's daughter. But, hey, that's just in America maybe. Anyway, I know this because we study genealogy (the study of family history).
Then we are both correct, its different in the US to over heer in the UK. But really Tonks and Sirius are second cousins as its a British book xP;;;

*is shot* But i see your pint 3nodding why does everything have to be differnet xD;; it just confuses things from country to country.

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Tonks and Remus look awesome together
I hope they won't break up in book 7
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