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Time-traveling Senshi

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People are WANTING it to drop? Just GO AWAY? Poof? Vinito? ******** animals. Honestly, I agree. Gaia is a business. Gaia should be complained about so that future customers/investors make the ultimate decision to fund or join the site. Because believe it or not. People USE the BBB to make decisions on purchasing/going into a business. It does not matter if it's private or funded by businesses, the fact is that those BUSINESSES don't want to be heard about in a bad light on a site they are PAYING for to house that information about other businesses.


I don't think you fully understand the BBB. They only care for the money given to them by the businesses who are accredited with them. The more money they get from them the better the rating the business will get. Accredited businesses with thirty legit complaints for serious stuff in a year's time will have a false rating just because they pay their dues. People won't even research further into a company because they see a BBB rating of A- and believe they shouldn't have to look at places like Yelp or other review sites. Heck, they won't even look at the company's BBB page because that letter grade is more than sufficent for them.

The BBB doesn't even care if the complaint was taken care of just that the business acknowledges it exists. They send the business the complaint, the business then has to contact them back that they saw the complaint, if they don't hear from them they contact them one more time to see they got the complaint, and then the BBB gives the business ten days to do something about it and at the end of those ten days that's it the file is closed and never looked at again. The BBB never checks to see if the issue still exists or not after ten days of their last contact with the company. If the company is accredited they keep their current ratings. If they're not their ratings drop. Do everything by the book and refuse to join the BBB and be like Wolfgang Puck and get Fs for every location you own.

The BBB is used like a reputation defense service where the reviews and complaints a business doesn't want to deal with get falsely reviewed away with by people whose job it is to do nothing but write false positive reviews around the net on sites like Yelp. Businesses pay for better ratings. It's a sham and nothing will come of it because they can't threaten to have the company shut down like the FTC and FCC can. I'm not saying don't complain but rather don't complain to the BBB because it won't do much good.

Time-traveling Senshi

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Does America/California not have anything more "official" you can lodge a complaint with?
Here we have the Trading Standards Authority and they would definitely investigate something like 133Tgate. Sadly, I don't think they would have any power over a US company online even under the Distance Selling Act.


There are other outlets but we've been so brainwashed into believing the BBB is the end all and be all of business complaints and that they alone can make a business change their ways, it's sad really. People don't know there are branches within the FTC where they can complain more about how the actual sales for things like Cash are being handed and advertised over "oh my god I can't afford the mostly user run marketplace because I don't have enough free to obtain in site currency because its value has changed dramatically". When it comes to a service here in the US it's the goods and services purchased with real money that are eligible for complaint. If a billing issue isn't properly handled that's cause for complaint with the FTC. If a company isn't spelling out the terms of a sale or having more sales than days where there isn't a sale or saying they'll give you a certain amount for a specific price and you get less than that then you can complain to the FTC. If Gaia locked people out without warning because they don't use Autocash, FTC. Complaining about something you purchased with Cash won't get your complaint looked at because that's using in game/site money. Complaining you aren't refunded the money you spent to get the Cash to make that purchase, that will get looked at. Free features we don't spend a single American Dollar on aren't up for complaint. Things we do spend American Dollars on, Gaia Cash, are.

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Fanny Flaps
Does America/California not have anything more "official" you can lodge a complaint with?
Here we have the Trading Standards Authority and they would definitely investigate something like 133Tgate. Sadly, I don't think they would have any power over a US company online even under the Distance Selling Act.


There are other outlets but we've been so brainwashed into believing the BBB is the end all and be all of business complaints and that they alone can make a business change their ways, it's sad really. People don't know there are branches within the FTC where they can complain more about how the actual sales for things like Cash are being handed and advertised over "oh my god I can't afford the mostly user run marketplace because I don't have enough free to obtain in site currency because its value has changed dramatically". When it comes to a service here in the US it's the goods and services purchased with real money that are eligible for complaint. If a billing issue isn't properly handled that's cause for complaint with the FTC. If a company isn't spelling out the terms of a sale or having more sales than days where there isnt a sale or saying they'll give you a certain amount for a specific price and you get less than that then you can co,plain to the FTC. If Gaia locked people out without warning because they don't use Autocash, FTC. Complaining about something you purchased with Cash won't get your complaint looked at because that's using in game/site money. Complaining you aren't refunded the money you spent to get the Cash to make that purchase, that will get looked at. Free features we don't spend a single American Dollar on aren't up for complaint. Things we do spend American Dollars on, Gaia Cash, are.


I agree with everything you have written.
The only thing I consider legally dodgy about 133Tgate is the advertisement of a product (Project blahblahblah) with a grand prize (the ticket) they intended to take out of circulation. The prospect of winning that ticket drove a lot of the sales and was responsible for a lot of revenue yet it was never going to be allowed to be redeemed? That intuitively seems illegal, I am not familiar with U.S law but surely there must be some kind of mandate against this sort of thing?

Time-traveling Senshi

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Fanny Flaps
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Fanny Flaps
Does America/California not have anything more "official" you can lodge a complaint with?
Here we have the Trading Standards Authority and they would definitely investigate something like 133Tgate. Sadly, I don't think they would have any power over a US company online even under the Distance Selling Act.


There are other outlets but we've been so brainwashed into believing the BBB is the end all and be all of business complaints and that they alone can make a business change their ways, it's sad really. People don't know there are branches within the FTC where they can complain more about how the actual sales for things like Cash are being handed and advertised over "oh my god I can't afford the mostly user run marketplace because I don't have enough free to obtain in site currency because its value has changed dramatically". When it comes to a service here in the US it's the goods and services purchased with real money that are eligible for complaint. If a billing issue isn't properly handled that's cause for complaint with the FTC. If a company isn't spelling out the terms of a sale or having more sales than days where there isnt a sale or saying they'll give you a certain amount for a specific price and you get less than that then you can co,plain to the FTC. If Gaia locked people out without warning because they don't use Autocash, FTC. Complaining about something you purchased with Cash won't get your complaint looked at because that's using in game/site money. Complaining you aren't refunded the money you spent to get the Cash to make that purchase, that will get looked at. Free features we don't spend a single American Dollar on aren't up for complaint. Things we do spend American Dollars on, Gaia Cash, are.


I agree with everything you have written.
The only thing I consider legally dodgy about 133Tgate is the advertisement of a product (Project blahblahblah) with a grand prize (the ticket) they intended to take out of circulation. The prospect of winning that ticket drove a lot of the sales and was responsible for a lot of revenue yet it was never going to be allowed to be redeemed? That intuitively seems illegal, I am not familiar with U.S law but surely there must be some kind of mandate against this sort of thing?


          Here's the thing, and I'm not the lawyer in my family and I don't live in California so my understanding of things is very layman and basic, according to California gaming laws a grab bag like the Projects, the monthly boxes, recolor generators, re-release generators, charm generators, and the modified gold generators fall under the lottery heading. What can be possibly won from those grab bags needs to be clearly advertised (they use tangible collectable sports trading cards as the law example but I'm sure it can apply to anything like a vinyl figure blind box, those Lego mini figure packs or what Gaia does) so people know what to expect out of that that package or box. Percentages for "winning" a particular card, figure, or item out of the bag, package, or box do not need to be displayed like they do in Japan.

          The project tickets also fall under the realm of a contest in California. They're a pure chance opportunity and in accordance to the laws in California Gaia must disclose all rules and regulations for the contest being held. The contest must have a clear end date, which is the length of the sale of the grab bag the project ticket comes from. They can not make claim that someone has won the contest when no one actually has. If the chances do change, IE those times when there's double or triple the chance at getting the ticket, that must be clearly advertised. And while we're at it the gold generators can be argued to fall under the realm of a sweepstakes in California, which have their own set of laws for running.

          So in respects to this particular ticket the initial contest conditions were met according to California law. Those conditions were to pull a certain ticket out of the grab bag that can then be redeemed at any time for a specific prize. There are no dates for when those prizes must be claimed so the ticket can exchange hands as many times as possible. At any point, a person with a ticket can choose to never claim it and the item, art, sale, or event will never be made. Anyone can essentially take the ticket out of circulation and never have the winning prize claimed. Just because it was done by, as some people somehow determined to be, a secondary staff account is the major issue people have with that. There's a project ticket out there that now sits on a banned account and people are upset about that because the person bragged about that account getting banned. So since there's no conditions for the item to be made within, say, a year of the end date for the initial sale of the Project grab bag when the ticket is redeemed doesn't matter.

          But as I stated in the beginning, I don't live in California nor am I a lawyer like my brother-in-law so my understanding of gaming laws in California is very basic at best.

Snarky Vampire

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Getting in touch with the BBB to let them know about all this might be worth a shot, but I'm going to guess it wouldn't really accomplish anything. As I understand it, the BBB doesn't have the authority to tell businesses what they can and can't do; all it can really do is award a letter grade that could be completely ignored by the company, although a low grade probably would raise some red flags with consumers.

Even if we ignored this and assumed for a minute that they do have authority over businesses that goes beyond writing a letter in red ink, 133TGate involved an exchange of virtual, non-existent money and goods. I have a hard time believing something like that would really be deemed actionable and worth enforcing business reforms over.

Fuzzy Bear

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idk why people still exchange or vend with this knowledge tbh. 133 trillion gold for a 4-8t ticket. It isnt even a game anymore, they gave a single person multiple gold sinks worth of gold for no reason, said theyd reverse it and didnt. The whole thing is dumb. Someone needs to punch whoever is responsible in the throat really ******** hard.

Handsome Shounen

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Please just let this drop. It's a fricken' fake currency... Why are people still whining "discussing" this. It was a still a crummy thing to do and it certainly doesn't do much for their intelligence.

As for inflation - AGAIN, people buy gold generators. Not the admins but us users. People buy them and use them. If Gaia stopped putting them out that would be really great - but in the end it is still the user's choice to buy/sell/open them. I understand people are upset but honestly this is dragging on. If you want to complain to BBB, go for it. If you really want to spend time on it and are that upset then you should do it - but I really really wish we'd stop getting threads/comments posted in other peoples threads about this. Please, there are enough threads about this. Keep the discussion about this in them.... Or go to SF maybe?

It's actually the company actively scamming it's users. It's fake currency, but it's bought with real money.

My suggestion to the OP, BBB can't do much, but you can file a complaint to the FTC if you feel like your purchases have been effected by staff manipulation on the MP.


Options- Write a letter to the following explaining the situation

Bureau of Consumer Protection
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20580

File a complaint through the FTC website. Make sure to not only explain the situation as much as possible, but also include how your own purchases have been effected.

FTC complaint form

Please keep in mind that the FTC cannot resolve individual complaints, but it can file lawsuit against businesses for unethical practices (assuming they see fit to take up a case). Normally, I'd suggest that users contact the FTC office in LA, but Gaia has moved it's corporate office to Delaware, so you might be better off contacting the Eastern Office, though it doesn't specifically say Delaware, you should at least be able to get information for who to contact.

Lashtal's Wife

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I reported them a few months ago because they were advertising stuff 50% off when they item just came out thus was NEVER the amount they slab a pretend discount on.
and quite a few other things with ad issues.
I got a message (irl mail) from the BBB saying Gaia had no reply.
I don't think Gaia cares about their BBB status anymore, and that's the only reason companies resolve issues trough BBB. Because most companies do care about it, but Gaia gets money either way so why worry? rolleyes

Dapper Noob

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Reporting them to the BBB would be ineffectual, to be honest. How many people do you think bother to check how trustworthy an avatar site on the internet is before creating account?

Divine Muse

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The BBB is a joke.

All a business has to do is respond to the complaint, they could type in anything like "PPTTTHHHHHHARRRGGGLLEEBABBBARRRGGGLLL"
and the BBB would auto mark that as the business trying to resolve the issue.

Source - I read complaints on their for fun.

Diamond Senshi

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Please just let this drop. It's a fricken' fake currency... Why are people still whining "discussing" this. It was a still a crummy thing to do and it certainly doesn't do much for their intelligence.

As for inflation - AGAIN, people buy gold generators. Not the admins but us users. People buy them and use them. If Gaia stopped putting them out that would be really great - but in the end it is still the user's choice to buy/sell/open them. I understand people are upset but honestly this is dragging on. If you want to complain to BBB, go for it. If you really want to spend time on it and are that upset then you should do it - but I really really wish we'd stop getting threads/comments posted in other peoples threads about this. Please, there are enough threads about this. Keep the discussion about this in them.... Or go to SF maybe?

It's actually the company actively scamming it's users. It's fake currency, but it's bought with real money.

My suggestion to the OP, BBB can't do much, but you can file a complaint to the FTC if you feel like your purchases have been effected by staff manipulation on the MP.


Options- Write a letter to the following explaining the situation

Bureau of Consumer Protection
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20580

File a complaint through the FTC website. Make sure to not only explain the situation as much as possible, but also include how your own purchases have been effected.

FTC complaint form

Please keep in mind that the FTC cannot resolve individual complaints, but it can file lawsuit against businesses for unethical practices (assuming they see fit to take up a case). Normally, I'd suggest that users contact the FTC office in LA, but Gaia has moved it's corporate office to Delaware, so you might be better off contacting the Eastern Office, though it doesn't specifically say Delaware, you should at least be able to get information for who to contact.

Ty. But nty. I enjoy this site, I've spent money on it - I spend lots of time on it but this is more time and attention than I am willing to give it and I'm not clear whether or not Gaia has actually violated anything other than user trust. Which you would think would be important to them but maybe not... stare

Handsome Shounen

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Ty. But nty. I enjoy this site, I've spent money on it - I spend lots of time on it but this is more time and attention than I am willing to give it and I'm not clear whether or not Gaia has actually violated anything other than user trust. Which you would think would be important to them but maybe not... stare


They've violated the law. The items they've misrepresented the value of by altering the ABP are items currently sold in the CS. If you enjoy the site and enjoy spending money on it, you should want them to be held accountable for their actions.

Diamond Senshi

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ES1K

Ty. But nty. I enjoy this site, I've spent money on it - I spend lots of time on it but this is more time and attention than I am willing to give it and I'm not clear whether or not Gaia has actually violated anything other than user trust. Which you would think would be important to them but maybe not... stare


They've violated the law. The items they've misrepresented the value of by altering the ABP are items currently sold in the CS. If you enjoy the site and enjoy spending money on it, you should want them to be held accountable for their actions.


K - I will keep that in mind. Ty for the info.

Vicious Risk-Taker

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I wonder how many of these 'users' wanting it to 'blow over' are actually staff accounts?

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again. The problem here is not simply the gold aspect, although the manipulation of the marketplace was simply disgusting behaviour. The problem is that the staff will not respond, or provide any forum of reasonable responsibility. The problem is that the staff have been shilling on their mules - posing as members of the community and attempting to manipulate not simply the marketplace, but opinion in general. They have made a lot of questionable comments.

I do not know about BBB, and from what people are saying, BBB solves nothing and is privatised. I would suggest that pressure on their social media accounts seems like the best option. However, one voice will not change anything. If something like that was to happen, it would need to be planned as a 'protest'.

Lonely Evader

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If you gave away all your s**t and quit
How is that gaias fault
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