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Hello,

I'm new to DMing for Dungeons and Dragons (running 5e but don't think this is relevant) and I was curious as to what kind of characters other DM's use, in a story sense to push a story along.

Do you have a lot of characters you genuinely rolled up, that are capable stepping in to guide the story, or do you use a more potent character to strong arm groups back into line?

So far I've created several characters for a low level campaign (most of these PC's are roughly 5- cool to push the story along without forcing players. The ones that give information or quests and are not characters the party should attempt to take, though they are killable if they manage to pull it off.

I also have one that would be pure folly to take on, but she's used to roleplay far more chaotic, should the group get utterly out of hand. She is meant to eventually guide them back on track, but is handy for those 'sudden' dungeon crawl type events that groups seem to crave once in a while.

So, what kind of PC's do you other DM's use and favour to help things along?

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Zeddicuus
Hello,

I'm new to DMing for Dungeons and Dragons (running 5e but don't think this is relevant) and I was curious as to what kind of characters other DM's use, in a story sense to push a story along.

Do you have a lot of characters you genuinely rolled up, that are capable stepping in to guide the story, or do you use a more potent character to strong arm groups back into line?

So far I've created several characters for a low level campaign (most of these PC's are roughly 5- cool to push the story along without forcing players. The ones that give information or quests and are not characters the party should attempt to take, though they are killable if they manage to pull it off.

I also have one that would be pure folly to take on, but she's used to roleplay far more chaotic, should the group get utterly out of hand. She is meant to eventually guide them back on track, but is handy for those 'sudden' dungeon crawl type events that groups seem to crave once in a while.

So, what kind of PC's do you other DM's use and favour to help things along?

I never make characters that outshine the players. And in that regard, I never make characters that are more capable than the players.

I do that in one of two ways, either rolling them with the same constraints I give players, or by making them a character description used for guiding the plot, but otherwise a 'commoner.' But I tend to avoid putting situations in where the players are antagonistic to everyone.

In general, I avoid all DMPC's. Though, I do roll villains as characters.

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Unless the Group/Party goes through a bunch of loops (ie force the issue) in order to enable a DMPC, I avoid it. Primary reason: they always "know whats behind the door."

As far as NPCs go, I've had some fairly powerful ones that do a lot of background work.

I've had a knight in shining armor be the spymaster for a kingdom.
I've had bears floating in air, riding currents.
I've had intelligent spiders providing an instant army.

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I use to heavily use DM PCs, and for the most part, kept them at just the PCs level. They generally had close to the same stat spread (which was high primaries, mid secondaries, low-mid evertything else).

As far as actions, they usually weren't the ones to open doors or anything, unless I had set them up to have a reason to (for example, a dragon slayer hunting a dragon was going to go for the door that seemed to lead to the dragon).

Loot, though, was harder. Some characters just took the last of it (to be fair, she wasn't motivated by money and her power let her use any sword as an enchanted sword), and another one was only interested in new stuff "every other" time. Since they very rarely stuck with the party 100%, if I needed one to have an item, I could just give it to him/her and use the excuse they'd found it without the party.

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Regulars were basically henchmen, often controlled, or least commanded, by players. I would control any super-important NPC that joined the party, but that'd always be temporary.

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Oh. I think I was misunderstood, haha. This is not a PC I run around with the other players at all times. I actually rolled a normal character for that but refrain from search objects with him or do anything to give them away. I'm basically the "Heals b***h!" Cleric of the group so they can pick the classes they want.

This DM PC I'm talking about is one used to guide people back to the story and bring in parts of the story, which is why I made her incredibly hard to kill. I can use her for all kinds of story purposes given the background she has within the story itself to help guide things back on track, or just as a means to initiate a dungeon crawl/hack and slash session if that's what the group wants. She's definitely not running around with them butchering everything in sight, I know that would not be fun for anyone if I did that. She teleports in to intervene if the group is lost or losing interest and stirs things up.

I am just curious how other people use differing PC's to keep a story on track or at least keep the players' attention on it so they don't go off on a wild tangent.

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Oh. I think I was misunderstood, haha. This is not a PC I run around with the other players at all times. I actually rolled a normal character for that but refrain from search objects with him or do anything to give them away. I'm basically the "Heals b***h!" Cleric of the group so they can pick the classes they want.

This DM PC I'm talking about is one used to guide people back to the story and bring in parts of the story, which is why I made her incredibly hard to kill. I can use her for all kinds of story purposes given the background she has within the story itself to help guide things back on track, or just as a means to initiate a dungeon crawl/hack and slash session if that's what the group wants. She's definitely not running around with them butchering everything in sight, I know that would not be fun for anyone if I did that. She teleports in to intervene if the group is lost or losing interest and stirs things up.

I am just curious how other people use differing PC's to keep a story on track or at least keep the players' attention on it so they don't go off on a wild tangent.


Perhaps terminology is more useful.

Generally, when people hear "DMPC," they understand that to be a regular member of the party, controlled by the DM acting as a player. It's a fine line between temporary ally (eg, someone who's hired you for escort duty,) henchman (NPC companion that serves as a sort of extension of one of the PCs,) and DMPC (an NPC that finds regular use as a party member.)

Your cleric is intended to permanently ensure that a role hole (healing) is not neglected in the party; that's a DMPC, though in his case you seem to have considered most of the risks.

Your Aladdin's Genie - because how you're using her reminds me of the djinni from Disney's Aladdin - is a bit obnoxious. I'd suggest trying to follow the "wild tangents" once in a while, and see if you can't improvise something awesome from a few. You are playing D&D, after all - it's so much more flexible than a pick-a-path book.

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I see I see. I do intend to be careful with the chaotic one. It is good to know I should be more careful with her than expected. I would like to go with some tangents as those can be fun. I also want a means to guide back ontrack if things out out of hand. I shall use sparingly. Thanks for the heads up!

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I don't use DMPCs, as for NPCs they don't accompany the party for long if they are part of the party. Usually only to fill a gap left by an absence of a player, not fair to tell a group the game is a no go because the "X" is not here and the party isn't well enough rounded.

NPCs if they do go with the party are usually a level or 2 weaker and less likely to put themselves in danger. They should never steal the spotlight.

As for NPCs outside the group, it really depends on who they are. Some are weaker, some are tougher than the party, some are allies, while others are enemies. If they are tougher and an ally or employer they are enticing the party to do something they can't be bothered with or lack the resources to do because of prior obligations.

I will be honest though, I don't like roleplaying a vast number of NPCs so many are 2d dimensional with only 1 or 2 per session actually being more fleshed out. I like running dungeon crawls and most npcs encountered while doing so are monsters or other adventures who are competition.

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I've only ever played a character while GM'ing to fill a hole the party hasn't got covered.

In Battletech I play the Recon guy, because no one in the party (Of 50-65 tonne 'Mechs...) thought to specialize in sensors or computer use...

In another Sci-Fi game I GM, I play a diplomat. Because diplomacy to that party means aiming for the legs first...

The point is; GM characters should NEVER be used to force the players to do anything. They should be there only to fill a hole that needs to be filled. Occasionally they can provide clues, or hints, but they should never outclass the player characters in any way. Ideally, they should be worse off than the player character.
For example, my Battletech character has a lower stat-point than the other characters, but makes up for it in traits and aptitudes. He doesn't "Rule the field" by force, he makes it so that the rest of the party can do their damn jobs properly.

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I use DMPCs but I make sure the players make 100% of the decisions. My character is there as an additional weapon/support. Of course there will be role playing, but I try to refrain from needing to role play with myself and if I do I rarely give myself a successful outcome, where as the other players would have had a favorable outcome. For instance, if the PC's need to negotiate fr a higher bounty price and they use my character, they will not get that increase in bounty. I try to "punish", for lack of a better term, the players for relying on the DMPC as a crutch in anything outside of combat or the role that character is filling in the group if it lacks that particular role. I usually build them to fit a role that's required for the campaign and missing from the PCs.

If it's in a Warhammer RPG however, I usually use the character that no one can question. So in Rogue Trader my DMPC is the Rogue Trader and will kill any character, especially Xenos, that step out of line, since that is canon in the universe.

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I've only dm'd one game, so have not had to make one myself...

but last year the game I was playing with my friends, we lost the fighter in the group. Since the rest of us were mostly casters and a ranger the DM made a dwarf barbarian, he ran it as if it was a hieriling, some one helping us on a payroll, I think it worked out to something like 2 gold a day plus travel expenses and x% of treasure lol it was kind of funny, and I think we paid him mostly in beer. it was kinda funny.

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If I ever bring in a character to go with the group it's usually a person with it's own agenda, that only sticks around as long as it remains profitable or benfitiful. Effectively just a merc, I have had major villains that have joined up with the PCs from time to time, either because they had to take down something stronger than either side could handle or the villain had yet to reveal themselves and wished to get to know their opponents

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Well, seeing you're clearly new to GMing, I'll keep advise as friendly as possible.

Short version: Take all your DMPCs, and take them to the nearest incinerator.

Long version.

Don't railroad your players, if they don't want to do something don't force them. It's a game, people play games to have fun. If your players are not having fun you're failing as a GM.

The most valuable skill a GM can ever learn is learning to know their players, and fill their games with stuff everyone likes. Also if you're new to GMing forget about complex stories. Chances are you're not the next JRR Tolkien, and even Tolkien didn't get Middle Earth right on the first try. Wait until you get the hang of GMing, and then you can start thinking on stories.

Regarding GMPCs, these are the reason why you must not use them:

1) The adventure is about the player characters, it's their story and they're the protagonists, not your GMPCs.
2) Players hate GMPCs because they steal the PCs' thunder, players don't like having their thunder stolen.
3) A considerable portion of the gaming community compares the use of GMPCs to masturbation (i.e the GM playing with themselves). The players don't go to your table to watch you play with yourself.
4) They destroy Willing Suspension of Disbelief. If you have this stuff that a group of lvl 1 characters can do, but you have in the same place a lvl 7 Mary Sue then why are the PCs even there? Just send Mary Sue to do the job.

Word to the wise: Avoid the advise of anyone who uses the word "power" or "authority" when talking about GMing.

I hope that helps.

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Alrighty, thanks for all the responses! I've gathered a lot of advice and information from this thread, which means I also found out I used the wrong terminology in my above posts. I will clarify myself just to keep things straight in my head. I apologize for my errors, I am very new to attempting to be a DM, and would really love to get this right.

I made an error stating I made several DMPC's. Wrong terminology used. I've created several NPC's for the players to interact with that are not around for any length of time, do not join in combat (if they do it's maybe for that encounter then they move on). From what I've gathered here, fleshing out NPC's is perfectly fine so long as they don't override the story or steal the spotlight from the players. This is good as they will be in and out of the player's story so they should not cause any issues. I have enough players (roughly 5-9) so they should not be necessary to keep around for anything else than story purposes.

The "Genie" referred to from the previous posts would also be an NPC that is deeply related to the story, but will not be affecting players directly or stealing combat. She will mostly be introducing major plot events and missions. She may cause some chaos if things seem to be going slow or dull for people, but again will not be entering combat with players so they should feel like they're being tossed aside. But if people decide tonight they want story light dungeon crawl heavy, she's a way to get that tied into their overall story, which from what I gathered is fine so long she's not railroading people into things they don't want to do. This suits my purposes just fine as I've become fond of this character since she's one I've used in RP's years ago and really like the character developed. Overall her appearances have been very short and very few. I've tested her around with my nephew and sons and they've been finding it a lot of fun to have someone that is partially crazy pop in randomly and stir things up so odds are she'll end up sticking to the game I've been running for them and leave the bigger groups alone.

I do have a DMPC rolled up, whom is being used as a means to fill a role hole so the players can choose the races and classes they like. He will end up being a passive PC, not searching or any of the sort. I have no issues playing "Heals b***h" if everyone has fun with the classes they enjoy. This is a fairly rolled PC with nothing more special than anyone else and I plan to treat as such. I will not be dividing the party earned XP or treasure to him, he will simply level up as appropriate along with the group.

As for stories, I'm going to be keeping the first few here pretty simple until I get more comfortable with the role. I'm not going for something grand like Middle Earth at this point. I have a lot of ideas but keeping implementing them to a minimum until I get more comfortable as a DM for now. Once everyone is more adjusted I can step things up.

From what I gather here, what I stated above seems to be a general agreed consensus among the far more experienced DM's here.

This is good stuff, if there's anything else people would like to share about DMing I haven't thought of it would be a huge help. Almost all the players are new to D&D in general besides myself and 2 others and I really want everyone to have a lot of fun. I don't want to mess this up so any advice is good stuff. So if that means getting harsh because it sounds like I'm doing or asking something stupid it won't bother me none if it comes with sound advice. I'd rather do things right the first time.
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