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Don Dame

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Post: 93266817_436 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:11:22 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:11:22 +0000

Gash Thrashum

There's a defense force for everything. Always bet on that.

True.
Plus most people just want to stand out. When the world's against one person another will
come to their rescue. Not really because they care they just want to be different.

Chibi Halo

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Post: 93266817_437 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:13:06 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:13:06 +0000

Rawrzellers

i'm so proud of her honestly. Way to go girl you're my hero. Gaia just got all nervous cause more then a select group of people were able to get their hands on these items. It's like when rich people don't want all the poor people to be in their exclusive areas or own anything of value. Like really it's pixels and everyone is treating this like the hacking of the century. Literally nothing was lost other then virtual currency/value of items. No one lost their home or lost their entire life savings.

So wait, if someone stole seven thousand in jewelery from a jewelery store and then sold everything for way less and then burned all the money getting everyone they sold the items to in trouble with authorities you'd call them a hero? It's not just pixels. Because while the items inside those bundles had no intrinsic value the bundles themselves were being sold for at least one thousand dollars a piece. It was over seven thousand dollars in merchandise stolen from Gaia sold off bit by bit for a lot less and then the gold essentially burned off .

So I'll put it another way. If someone stole seven thousand in Coach leather goods and then sold them for way less and then burned the money getting everyone they sold the items to in trouble with authorities you'd call them a hero? You seriously need to reexamine your priorities because she's no role model and no hero. The GoFusion kickstarter has been screwed up because of her and we don't know if we're going to get the last two or three global rewards now.

Rawrzellers

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Post: 93266817_438 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:18:01 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:18:01 +0000

Chibi Halo

Rawrzellers

So wait, if someone stole seven thousand in jewelery from a jewelery store and then sold everything for way less and then burned all the money you'd call them a hero? It's not just pixels. Because while the items inside those bundles had no intrinsic value the bundles themselves were being sold for at least one thousand dollars a piece. It was over seven thousand dollars in merchandise stolen from Gaia sold off bit by bit for a lot less and then the gold essentially burned off .

So I'll put it another way. If someone stole seven thousand in Coach leather goods and then sold them for way less and then burned the money you'd call them a hero? You seriously need to reexamine your priorities because she's no role model and no hero. The GoFusion kickstarter has been screwed up because of her and we don't know if we're going to get the last two or three global rewards now.

Okay I'm just gonna break this up into 3 parts
1) Jewels have real value and when you steal that from someone you are actually stealing something they spent their money on to sell back for a profit. You can actually destroy someones business and life. This is not the case with pixels that can literally be duplicated until the end of time with little to no cost in the process of creating more. There is an infinite supply of these items and it costs nothing to duplicate them.

2) Again she didn't steal 7 grand in items. Gaia just put a value on them. They're actually not worth anything. They're not worth tangible money. They have no value other then on this site.

3) I would be so happy if someone stole 7 grand in Coach leather goods because that crap is super tacky and overly priced.

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Post: 93266817_439 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:22:37 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:22:37 +0000

Beaujolais Vino

Hirurg

Well since we're humoring conspiracy theories like that she's actually a celebrity and s**t.
What if HYYPE and Herrliche are the same person??? eek eek

very different types of crimes: one is hacking and exploiting a glitch, the next is payment fraud.

better question : why was Herrliche not banned? Was the $20,000 she stole from gaia cash repaid?

she was.

There was also speculation she used an exploit in virtual piggy which is why it went undetected so long, which would suddenly make it much more similar than just using a card and filing a dispute but its p irrelevant it was a joke.

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Post: 93266817_440 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:26:06 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:26:06 +0000

Now that things have pretty much blown over, I have an offtopic thought:

Does this thread title make anyone think of a literal case, a la Case of Pietro?

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Post: 93266817_441 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:28:29 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:28:29 +0000

I don't really understand what happened. I'm just glad my account wasn't involved.

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Post: 93266817_442 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:34:59 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:34:59 +0000

Rawrzellers

Chibi Halo

Rawrzellers

Yes she did steal seven grand from Gaia. You don't seem to get it. You seem to think that just because it's not a physical item that can be held that it's not a real item and that it's not actually seven thousand dollars in theft. It is because Gaia's out over seven thousand dollars. They never got seven grand for the supposed Cash to pay for the bundles. On top of that she knowingly exploited a glitch in the system for personal gain. Also, it looks like you missed my edit to my first post to you where I mentioned everyone who bought from the thieves got in trouble for buying stolen goods. That's what happened here with people getting their trading passes revoked. I'm sorry you don't see why this is wrong.

It looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree.

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Post: 93266817_443 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:39:51 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:39:51 +0000

Sweet Angel Mary

Chibi Halo

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mayakko

Ooooh so THAT'S what happened. Huh. Sucks for everyone involved, Gaia included. As a web developer myself, I can't imagine finding a glitch of this magnitude and not reporting it immediately to Gaia. I mean, if one person found it, then others could too.

Can't say I'm mad about the deflation though. sweatdrop

someone else reported it weeks ago, if gaia were on top of glitch reports, this might not have happened.

They said they reported it but I can't remember if they also said whether or not they PM'd someone like Codemonkey about that or not. When you find something this major it helps to PM a developer as well right away.

true but sometimes you don't know who to pm. Like last week, gaia did something to break the video offers from one of the providers, and i don't actually know who to pm about it, or what category to report it under on the ticket page. I'm hoping whenever they return the cash tree to the header that it'll fix it but i don't know when that'll be now. That's part of the reason I want to know when they'll decide about the gold in kickstarter b/c I want that icon gone and for them to fix the cash tree back.

Whenever it's a matter of anything to do with Cash and Cash payments you can always PM Zero Omega. I'm pretty sure like Sisky he handles payment issues. Even if he doesn't then he'll either forward it on to the right person or let you know who you can contact.

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Post: 93266817_444 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:40:03 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:40:03 +0000

I was wondering with all this inflation if something like this was going to happen and it did. I don't think that users case is the only one it has happened with. There are probably a ton of others of cases as well. I will not commend any user who decides to steal no matter what method they use. Even though Gaia has stated that botting has remained the same, they also said the amount of gold being botted has increased. Gaia will handle the situation. I'm glad my account wasn't effected and makes me glad I don't use the marketplace to buy items anymore even though it was very scary to think my account could be risked of being banned just from being gifted items just because another user decides to steal a lot of money from Gaia. So I hope that user realizes that it was very selfish what they did putting other Gaians accounts at risk and not to repeat the hack manipulation with any other Gaia feature.

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Post: 93266817_445 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:57:28 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:57:28 +0000

Hassli

I don't really understand what happened. I'm just glad my account wasn't involved.

User A found a glitch and got items from the site without paying for them.

User A then sold them in MP (and exchange I think?) for low prices.

User B, C, D bought those items with gold they had.

User A bought more stuff in the MP from User E, F, G.

User A sold back the items at lower prices to User H, I, J.

User A eventually added A LOT of gold in the GOFusion kickstarter.

User B to J ended up caught into User A mess and it had repercussion on their account -- temporary locked or just trade disabled from what I read. It also made the prices of a lot of items deflate on the MP (which is why some consider that act as heroic -- even if at the end of the day it's just creating a huge mess which needs to be undone when it comes to vends & trades...). And it also messed up with the real number the kickstarter would have been without the gold User A given -- and we currently doesn't know what they will do with it; they most likely remove the gold from it, but then we just have no idea how much would be removed and the kickstarter is ending soon, so it's impossible to tell up to which global tier we are supposed to be at, nor if people would have tried to donate more to reach those tiers.

Note: I oversimplified things here, but it can probably be way more messed up than that -- gold & items can move fast from one hand to another afterall.

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Post: 93266817_446 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:58:55 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:58:55 +0000

lilloulou

Hassli

I don't really understand what happened. I'm just glad my account wasn't involved.

Sounds like a ********. Thanks for the explanation.

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Post: 93266817_447 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:04:48 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:04:48 +0000

Chibi Halo

I guess I could just start linking back to posts earlier in my thread, but...

Theft is "the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it." The problem here isn't that Gaia was deprived of property; it's still in their system, and they suffered no physical loss of product. No money was taken, no data, nothing. It's not theft. It's not even information theft.

If there's a good real world analogy for what was done, it's counterfeiting. Items were introduced into the economy representing a material value they didn't actually hold. But analogies are like a goose pond: They look pretty on the surface, but if you wade into one, you'll find it's full of s**t. (Including this one.)

What she did was hacking. No more, no less. Hacking can be a severe crime... or it can be a great method for preventing future crimes. This fell somewhere in between, I think. It's going to stop people from doing the same in the future, but it created a mess that is now getting cleaned up.

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Post: 93266817_448 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:16:34 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:16:34 +0000

Pie

Kestrad

Can we talk for a moment about how

GAIA'S CODING AND OVERSIGHT IS SO ******** SLOPPY THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN

Seriously. This x100000.

I could care less about the short-term impact of this. Yes, it sucks people got their trading passes disabled, but it will be sorted out the way it always is. Here's hoping Gaia's Customer Service jumps into action instead of moving at its usual lethargic pace.

I'm more interested in the long term impacts.

Let's look at this another way: What if HYYPE hadn't gone whole-hog and generated $7000 worth of pixels? What if HYYPE decided to be more subtle, kept the exploit to herself, and generated... let's say... $20 worth of items, every few days? Or even if she did generate the 7 bundles, but decided to squat on them for a while, then leak their items into the MP slowly and at a regular price. Would Gaia have noticed?

Better question: How do we know this hasn't already happened? HYYPE might have decided to go big or go home, but Cash Shop Gifting has been around for years -- how do we know there wasn't a black hat hacker (or several!) who already knew about this and kept their actions concealed? It took hours for Gaia to notice and respond to $7000 worth of MCs making it into the system illegitimately. I'm questioning just how robust their data monitoring system is.

And, of course, this is far from the first hole someone's found in Gaia's code. And I'm sure it won't be the last.

For as long as I can recall, it has seemed like Gaia is okay with letting some pretty significant bugs through and working things out in production. Using the userbase as their beta testers for every site feature. After all, if it's just a funny glitch here, a temporary inconvenience there... no problem, right? If this incident doesn't spell out what's wrong with that approach, I don't know what will.

I can only hope there's going to be a big staff meeting about this, and that Gaia will decide to beef up its testing process, set up some better security measures on the backend... generally improve their practices both as a business and as a development team. Even if the management only cares about money! Remember, even if it was only for a few hours, a user was able to cheat their way into $7000 worth of free items.

I know I'm not the only one who would be more excited about Gaia fixing bugs in their existing code than pushing out the latest feature that will be forgotten in a year or two.

+1 to everything you said here, and pretty much all your subsequent posts. heart

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Post: 93266817_449 created on Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:18:57 +0000
Posted: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:18:57 +0000

Pie

Chibi Halo

It just kind of irks me how people think she's some kind of hero for not reporting and subsequently exploiting a glitch for personal gain that got several people possibly in trouble with Gaia.