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Before we begin, I am not trying to be an evangelical and saying that the West needs a Christian revolution. I myself am not religious, but I noticed that modern Western culture appears to be largely antithetical to Christian values.

For example, the Bible preaches that sex is supposed to be practised at least within a committed relationship, and also not to look at others with lustful intent, but in the West nowadays everything is pornified and it is considered a virtue if a man sleeps with every single woman in sight, not to mention "The Internet is for porn". Virgins and those who do not watch porn are met with derision. Additionally, the Bible does not permit divorce except in certain circumstances, but in the West nowadays it's far from uncommon for marriages to end simply because they're "not into it anymore".

Moving away from sex, I also see that a whole lot of people are hell bent on revenge and will often look down on people who don't support revenge, when the Bible states that vengeance is for God. There is also a large amount of gluttony in at least some of the countries, in which people just eat and eat for pleasure, and just throw away unused portions because it is either not tasty enough. Also, there is a huge amount of materialism and consumerism. And the list goes on and on.

Now, I am not in any way claiming that the Western world nowadays is a bad place, nor am I saying that all people in the West are like this. It is still perhaps the best place on the planet to live, and I was born, grew up and live here. I am only saying that I think that I think despite its history with Christianity and the vast majority of its citizens claiming to be Christian, I think that in practise it is perhaps one of the most un-Christian places in the world. Sometimes when I see other countries and religions that are not Christian historically and nowadays I feel that many there live more "Christian" lifestyles than those we have over here. Yes, I'm aware that there are un-Christian activities elsewhere like female infantcide, rape, live cremation, dowry killing and such, but you get what I'm trying to say.

Does anyone get this feeling these days?

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Romans 7:15
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

In my opinion, it's dangerous to live like kings because we are not fit and cannot handle its temptations, and we often turn things that are good, like a delicious meal, into something we live for. Much of eastern civilization doesn't have porn at their fingertips, or a McDonald's on every corner, and from the stereotypes I've heard in my 22 years of living, it's not commonplace to practice adultery, as it's seen shameful to the parties that partake in the act, to their families and to God.

This is all just speculation and from one Gaian's perspective and beliefs, just food for thought.
The problem is that Christianity as a practice is supposed to be almost ascetic, with even self-ruinous levels of charity encouraged, and most secular attachments (even to family) eschewed in favour of the Great Work and looking "beyond the horizon" to the Home on the other side. In other words, all those juicy "do this and you do well" type things that Jesus talked about in the synoptics.

As an institution, as seen in early Acts, it's supposed to be a pure communism overseen by a council-style theocracy.

It's not so much "the West," as a specific feature of "the West" (namely marginally restricted if not wholly laissez-faire capitalism) that is incompatible with both of these.

----

As for the other not-safe-for-Mennonites aspects of American society? In a way, Christianity as a doctrine is partly to blame; and the institution is built on the doctrine rather than the practice, resulting in a Christianity that hinges on the sin-confess-forgive cycle and living by the death and resurrection of Christ, rather than by the teachings of Jesus.

So it's not that the West is unchristian, but rather that Christianity is that far removed from its 30s CE roots.
randomuser2349
Does anyone get this feeling these days?

Look, you can probably make a case that ever since we started building telecommunications networks across the entire planet, there's been a lot more pornography floating around. It's also pretty hard to claim that divorce rates aren't way higher than they were even just fifty years ago.

But, c'mon. Do you really think an unhealthy obsession with sex and violence is endemic to the modern west? Back in ye olde days, Popes used to have naked boys jump out of cakes at parties, England spent a hundred years invading and oppressing France, and "The Pear of Anguish" was a thing. That people used. On other people.
Maltese_Falcon91
Back in ye olde days, Popes used to have naked boys jump out of cakes at parties...


wat

Popes don't have cake at parties.
- talk2hand

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randomuser2349


For example, the Bible preaches that sex is supposed to be practised at least within a committed relationship, and also not to look at others with lustful intent.


God, puritans are so dull.



Quote:
but in the West nowadays everything is pornified and it is considered a virtue if a man sleeps with every single woman in sight, not to mention "The Internet is for porn".


I will say that porn has some nasty effects upon how we regard and treat others, particularly how men treat women.
However, porn can sometimes be good and a positive outlet, sometimes.

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The Bible does not permit divorce except in certain circumstances, but in the West nowadays it's far from uncommon for marriages to end simply because they're "not into it anymore".


What about abusive relationships?



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Moving away from sex, I also see that a whole lot of people are hell bent on revenge and will often look down on people who don't support revenge, when the Bible states that vengeance is for God.


Double standards.

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There is also a large amount of gluttony in at least some of the countries, in which people just eat and eat for pleasure, and just throw away unused portions because it is either not tasty enough.


Sure, we are wasteful, but I like eating for pleasure. Eating brings me pleasure..that is the whole point of making good food. Pleasure.


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Also, there is a huge amount of materialism and consumerism. And the list goes on and on.


Shocker. Blame capitalism.


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It is still perhaps the best place on the planet to live, and I was born, grew up and live here. I am only saying that I think that I think despite its history with Christianity and the vast majority of its citizens claiming to be Christian, I think that in practise it is perhaps one of the most un-Christian places in the world.


Well, because Christians are hypocrites.



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Sometimes when I see other countries and religions that are not Christian historically and nowadays I feel that many there live more "Christian" lifestyles than those we have over here.


Well, because Christians aren't Christ-like at all. They're the furthest away from Christ that they could be. I mean, the guy might have been a construct, but modern Christians aren't followers of Christ...
Just saying.



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Yes, I'm aware that there are un-Christian activities elsewhere like female infantcide, rape, live cremation, dowry killing and such, but you get what I'm trying to say.


Oh, yes. And in Christian nations we still condone the death penalty, drone-killings and lifelong incarceration for 'traitors' of the state.
xInfernalxDukex

God, puritans are so dull.



Did you not read the first paragraph of my post?
randomuser2349
Now, I am not in any way claiming that the Western world nowadays is a bad place, nor am I saying that all people in the West are like this. It is still perhaps the best place on the planet to live, and I was born, grew up and live here. I am only saying that I think that I think despite its history with Christianity and the vast majority of its citizens claiming to be Christian, I think that in practise it is perhaps one of the most un-Christian places in the world. Sometimes when I see other countries and religions that are not Christian historically and nowadays I feel that many there live more "Christian" lifestyles than those we have over here. Yes, I'm aware that there are un-Christian activities elsewhere like female infantcide, rape, live cremation, dowry killing and such, but you get what I'm trying to say.

Does anyone get this feeling these days?

I think you're making a mistake in equating morality and Christianity. The Church has claimed this role as moral arbitrator, but that does not mean that morality is in anyway stemming from it or in correlation to it. Like, for example, in societies where there is little to no religious adherence, they don't claim that they're falling away from religion when they see high rates of [promiscuity, vengefulness, etc.], since there is none, but only that people are failing to adhere to their moral duties. Their absence of religion doesn't mean that there's an absence of morality.

randomuser2349
For example, the Bible preaches that sex is supposed to be practised at least within a committed relationship, and also not to look at others with lustful intent, but in the West nowadays everything is pornified and it is considered a virtue if a man sleeps with every single woman in sight, not to mention "The Internet is for porn". Virgins and those who do not watch porn are met with derision. Additionally, the Bible does not permit divorce except in certain circumstances, but in the West nowadays it's far from uncommon for marriages to end simply because they're "not into it anymore".

The Bible gets it wrong. Saving yourself for marriage and the practice of abstinence leads to poorer quality relationships. Which is why you see high divorce rates within most conservative Christian communities. There are a few individual exceptions here and there, asexuality and the like, but physical attraction largely cannot be separated from intimate relationships in humans as it plays a large role in the moderation and maintenance of relationships.

That's not to advocate sleeping around, but it's not a smart idea to settle down with someone "for life" without knowing in depth of how you as a individual person functions.

Divorce too. People change over time. They don't live lives set in stone. Emotional drifting will occur and it takes a lot of dedication to keep it together. Much more than many individuals are able to handle themselves. It's sad and can involve deep emotions, but it's for the best in a number of cases.

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I'd put it this way: "The West" is not "The South" in terms of religion (with the Exception of Kansas, Texas, and Arizona). You're not gonna get the ******** style town with churches on each corner.

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randomuser2349
xInfernalxDukex

God, puritans are so dull.



Did you not read the first paragraph of my post?


God, puritans are so dull.

Dapper Reveler

Sandokiri
It's not so much "the West," as a specific feature of "the West" (namely marginally restricted if not wholly laissez-faire capitalism) that is incompatible with both of these.
Naw. We don't have laissez-faire capitalism at all, and if we had, Christian financial teachings would not be hurt by it.
Avgvsto
Sandokiri
It's not so much "the West," as a specific feature of "the West" (namely marginally restricted if not wholly laissez-faire capitalism) that is incompatible with both of these.
Naw. We don't have laissez-faire capitalism at all, and if we had, Christian financial teachings would not be hurt by it.


Sell everything you have, give it to the poor, and follow me? That strikes me as a bit opposed to the goal of a capitalist system (buy and sell to accumulate) to me; but maybe that's just me. 3nodding
That is because everybody is turning away from their values to try and fit in and being forced to keep their own beliefs to themselves because if they say anything that offends anyone they don't blame their opinion but their religion. For example if a certain Christian were to say "I think that everybody should have to say a prayer at every public event' the response would be "Christians are trying to shove their beliefs down our throats" instead of "This guy is not respecting our beliefs" They will attack the religion instead of the person therefore more people are abandoning it.

Liberal Friend

The U.S. consists mostly of Christians, so the failure of living up to Christian standards is on them. For me, it got to a point where when I was a Christian, I didn't want to be called one anymore, unless people could see it through my actions. No, I don't mean attending church, reading the Bible, or praying. Sadly, being a light for the world goes unnoticed. You'll be seen as a good person before being seen as a Christian.
Maltese_Falcon91
randomuser2349
Does anyone get this feeling these days?

Look, you can probably make a case that ever since we started building telecommunications networks across the entire planet, there's been a lot more pornography floating around.


Actually, it started even earlier than that! At the advent of the printing press, the two most common things to be printed were the bible and pornography.

(This fun fact brought to you courtesy of my high school AP European History textbook, which had a chapter about sex and pornography in literally every single chapter.)

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