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Invisible Prophet

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Turnilk
Be Lateralus

trying to find the MOST ACCURATE version will be pretty much impossible. You are dealing with a book written by man and every time it is written and re-written the interpretation of the writer is going to muddy the text. The best thing is to not worry so much about semantics. Find a simple easy version and let yourself deiced what the words mean to you. Use your faith not the faith of others to guide you down the right path.

sweatdrop I didn't mean to imply that I am Christian by leaving out the fact that I am not particularly religious toward any one religion. I find them all rather fascinating though and wish to learn more. The biggest religion where I live is Christianity, so that's the one I chose to start with. I'd like to read the other major religions' holy books/scriptures, but I'd also run into the issue of getting the most accurate English translation possible for them.




I actually assumed as much. I feel the exact same way. I've already started studying Buddhism, Wiccan and Paganism after coming from Catholicism. I was just saying that even if you know latin and can find an original copy the material itself will always be open to interpretation. I personally just saying it would probably just be easier to just find one and go with it and not worry so much about which one it is.
Turnilk
Hexatonic Scale
Turnilk
Hexatonic Scale
Blue Letter Bible has various versions of the text, but what's unique about them is you can click the "C" beside each passage (go to "classic" view if there isn't one) it will show you the Hebrew or Greek for the verse, depending on whether it's from the Old or New Testament.

You can read the The Great Isaiah Scroll here with Google Translation of the Hebrew text on mouse click.

Online translators can be awful at times. And seeing it in the original Hebrew or greek is nice and all, but I can't actually read Hebrew or greek. Seeing how some words can have more than one meaning or a word has to be translated into a phrase to get the same meaning in English, I would have to go over the entirety of the bible word by word via a translator and hope that it translates everything correctly. That would take years.


Dude, like click the link. It doesn't just say the hebrew, it says what every word means >_> Like, seriously...

I did click the link. After hitting "c" as you suggested, I got this:
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ κρίσις ὅτι τὸ φῶς ἐλήλυθεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον καὶ ἠγάπησαν οἱ ἄνθρωποι μᾶλλον τὸ σκότος ἢ τὸ φῶς ἦν γὰρ πονηρὰ αὐτῶν τὰ ἔργα
(john 3:19 if anyone wants to know the passage)

Which I cannot read. The words below it are individual words translated one by one, however I've got no idea if it is English translated into ancient greek or the original translated to English. To confirm that the website is accurate, I'd have to go through word by word, and translate them one at a time and we run into the same problems I mentioned before. stare

It tells you right on the page: the Greek is from the Textus Receptus - and the copyright-info link on the Bible versions will tell you that it is a copy of the Stephanus revision of the TR, circa 1550.

The thing is, "as literal as possible" is still something you'll need to investigate on your own, due to the differences between languages. As one example, bethulah (virgin) and almah (maiden) were both rendered parthenos (which carries both meanings) in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Tanach.

This one happens to be significant, due to how Matthew's birth-of-Jesus narrative taps Isaiah 7.

Shameless Heckler

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look up the Codex Vaticanus (A Greek old & new testament from 325ad) .

The Vatican is also in possession of the original manuscripts for most of the letters of the new testament.

These are of course kept under lock & key in climate controlled safes owing to their delicate and irreplaceable nature , but exact copies are available for public viewing. (the originals can be viewed on request by historians.)

O.G. Codger

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I can tell you that King James is full of bullshit that he had written in.
Hexatonic Scale
Well that's why the other usages are helpful.

Take, for example, Gensis 1.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


And so I read and think, perhaps, but what word did they use for "created"? How ... active was that, for example. I click and I see "created" is "bara', then I click on H1254, which is the link to the definition of "bara'" and it says:

bara'
to create, shape, form


Among other things (you can read it all if you'd like).

So you say, okay, but which does it mean? Well, the author meant that word, and so, in general, you could read the definitions and decide, just like you could in English. (ie: "I baked the bread" and you could read what "baked" meant and decide you would rather say, "I cooked the bread" -- it's kind of a bad example, but I hope you can see the idea behind it. Words mean things, and part of translation is deciding, sometimes for yourself, which is the appropriate word given the context.

But maybe you just don't feel comfortable because you don't know how it's used elsewhere. Well, if you scroll down it lists each word that word is translated as, with the count. So for the case of "bara'" the overwhelming number of cases it is translated as "created", but there are a few translated as other words, such as "choose", "make", or "cut down".

And if that's not enough, if you continue scrolling it shows every single verse the word is used in, so you can see and read how each of those translations are used.

It's not a process to really go through to simply read the text, and, again, I'd suggest the link rmcdra suggested (which I did correct the link in my reply to his -- that's the page) but you can just search for "Young's Literal Translation" in Google and it will find it.

I would personally suggest using the two together, perhaps? Read the YLT version for long passages, and then, if you have bigger questions about what a particular verse means, particularly when it comes to wording, then look up that one in the BLB.

Hmm.. You make good points. I will take your suggestion of using both YLT and the site you provided..

Something I must point out though, I'd prefer for something to be correct rather than for me to just guess and hope I get it right. Meaning for someone can be fine, but its not really what I am looking for.
rmcdra
On the topic of the Dead Sea Scrolls, they aren't missing books of the Bible. They are significant because they contain some of the earliest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, deuterocanonical texts, along with some extrabiblical documents. The illustrate that there was much diversity in Jewish religious thought during Second Temple Jerusalem. The common theory is that they represent the Essenes but there are other theories about who these texts represents. From what I've looked into so far, Hex's link is going to be the best resource to get a translation of the scrolls currently. Because of the international effort involved with the Dead Sea Scrolls, it's real messy about what country actually owns the Scrolls.

When I mentioned the missing books from the bible I was not referring to the dead sea scrolls. In researching the history of the bible (which is not the best ever done), I found people saying that things were changed or left out from the book during its compilation. To me, that means that the bible is incomplete, which is why I held off reading it. It would be reading a book with pages, and chapters missing. I've actually done that, and it is frustrating to say the least.

rmcdra
My only comment about using a literal translation is that yes you'll get the content but a literal translation, as with any translation, does often miss the idioms and puns that don't translate. Like the name of Adam, comes from 'adamah the Hebrew word for "ground". Or that words like "bios" and "zoe" both translate as the word "life but have different connotations and usages. Or that "logos" doesn't mean just "word" but many different words like "reason", "mind", and "logic" in English and "logos" means all those different words simultaneously. Just throwing that out there to think about. I'm not trying to deter you, just giving you some heads up on what to expect.

With your's and Hex's comments/replies/suggestions, I think it would be best to use the YLT and the site she suggested together. Though, it might get a bit on the annoying side at times.
Be Lateralus

I actually assumed as much. I feel the exact same way. I've already started studying Buddhism, Wiccan and Paganism after coming from Catholicism. I was just saying that even if you know latin and can find an original copy the material itself will always be open to interpretation. I personally just saying it would probably just be easier to just find one and go with it and not worry so much about which one it is.

Yeah, I know its open to interpretation. That can be an issue when there are thousands of interpretations though burning_eyes Not only that, but each version has something different about it, otherwise it wouldn't be a different version. And holy carp, are there a ton in English alone.

Invisible Prophet

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Turnilk
Be Lateralus

I actually assumed as much. I feel the exact same way. I've already started studying Buddhism, Wiccan and Paganism after coming from Catholicism. I was just saying that even if you know latin and can find an original copy the material itself will always be open to interpretation. I personally just saying it would probably just be easier to just find one and go with it and not worry so much about which one it is.

Yeah, I know its open to interpretation. That can be an issue when there are thousands of interpretations though burning_eyes Not only that, but each version has something different about it, otherwise it wouldn't be a different version. And holy carp, are there a ton in English alone.




I guess the main thing i was trying to say is if you spend so much time trying to find the RIGHT ONE you might loose either interest or become frustrated with it. You might also get to the point of become so fixated on the translation and not allowing yourself to be open to it's meanings and not taking it at face value. But to each their own right. Just thought i would give my advice about the whole thing.
Sandokiri
It tells you right on the page: the Greek is from the Textus Receptus - and the copyright-info link on the Bible versions will tell you that it is a copy of the Stephanus revision of the TR, circa 1550.

The thing is, "as literal as possible" is still something you'll need to investigate on your own, due to the differences between languages. As one example, bethulah (virgin) and almah (maiden) were both rendered parthenos (which carries both meanings) in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Tanach.

This one happens to be significant, due to how Matthew's birth-of-Jesus narrative taps Isaiah 7.

I apparently did not see that. Thank you for the correction.

I'll have to look at it more, but I do hope it states both meanings in instances of your example. Something like that would be rather important to not miss, especially when the reader (me) can't know for sure.
washu_2004
look up the Codex Vaticanus (A Greek old & new testament from 325ad) .

The Vatican is also in possession of the original manuscripts for most of the letters of the new testament.

These are of course kept under lock & key in climate controlled safes owing to their delicate and irreplaceable nature , but exact copies are available for public viewing. (the originals can be viewed on request by historians.)

This is new information to me. Though, I would hope with such old texts that someone translated them by now.

I think it is good to keep the originals safe somewhere to preserve them. Better than having them rot away. Sharing them rather than hiding them is also a plus.
Be Lateralus

I guess the main thing i was trying to say is if you spend so much time trying to find the RIGHT ONE you might loose either interest or become frustrated with it. You might also get to the point of become so fixated on the translation and not allowing yourself to be open to it's meanings and not taking it at face value. But to each their own right. Just thought i would give my advice about the whole thing.


I see.. Thank you for your input then smile
Jumping Jehosaphat
I can tell you that King James is full of bullshit that he had written in.

Do you think you could give me an example? I had heard of things being changed or put in when the bible was compiled, but not of anything added when it was translated into English.

Loved Seeker

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Turnilk

When I mentioned the missing books from the bible I was not referring to the dead sea scrolls. In researching the history of the bible (which is not the best ever done), I found people saying that things were changed or left out from the book during its compilation. To me, that means that the bible is incomplete, which is why I held off reading it. It would be reading a book with pages, and chapters missing. I've actually done that, and it is frustrating to say the least.
If you mean voices of early Christians not represented then I am inclined to agree with you.

rmcdra

With your's and Hex's comments/replies/suggestions, I think it would be best to use the YLT and the site she suggested together. Though, it might get a bit on the annoying side at times.

This might be helpful as well since it includes Strong numbers

Seeker

Turnilk

Hmm.. You make good points. I will take your suggestion of using both YLT and the site you provided..

Something I must point out though, I'd prefer for something to be correct rather than for me to just guess and hope I get it right. Meaning for someone can be fine, but its not really what I am looking for.


There are certain things in the universe that are "true". Mathematics, basically by definition, certain constants of the universe, as far as we know, and other similar type things.

Despite what many in this forum will argue, most other things in Creation are not "true" or "false", "right" or "wrong", but are just a collection of stories, with one side having more support than another.

History isn't a record of what actually happened, for example, it's often a fable told by the ones who gained or had power. Unravelling what "actually" happened can be difficult to impossible, particularly when you go back thousands of years and are using a book of mythology as the source.

Anyway, a lot of words to say, I'm not sure there is a "correct" way to read these things, as if there were, we wouldn't have so many Biblical Scholars after so many thousands of years, to say nothing of all the various views, some rather recent, of the Torah/Tanakh within Judaism.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by "strong numbers". I know numbers is a book in the bible, is strong the author a different translation? Or do you mean it in reference to the numbers they use in the bible for chapters and passages? Or maybe something else?

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