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Friendly Trader

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Catalyste
Alexi_Jameson


I actually get what you're saying, but what I'm telling you is that you're missing the point of not only contesting the ban, but which information is there to help you understand. It's not up to you to do, even if you go somewhere on behalf of another user, it's not your ban to contest. You also seem to keep overlooking the fact that you're not entitled to extra information on another user. As part of the disclosure agreement, unless you're the party involved, the details aren't yours to request.

I'll say this, you keep focusing on those "you were banned for refreshing" instead of the detailed answer, then you're not helping your friend.

This is how you move forward in helping your friend get his account back. It's the details, not some simplified answer.


Did I submit a ticket? PM a mod about this? No. It was placed on the public forums and I found the thread and started talking in it. I fail to see why it is not my place to debate you when you found it to be your place to debate us/him.

And it was the admin themselves that focused on the refresh rate by email (which was given to him months after he submitted his tickets/the posts and threads you supposedly read). What, you think they are at fault too for focusing on the refreshes when it I dunno, is actually the reason he was banned?

Friendly Trader

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Catalyste
1. As an Admin, he is not a dev. Therefore he would need to seek their help in getting that information as well as consulting others on the correct approach. That will take time to do.


Wrong on two three counts.

Devs don't deal with the bans.
The ban reason is listed on the account, there is no need to ask the devs.
Zero is literally the admin in charge of exactly these types of bans.

Zero Omega
Oh no, I'm well aware of the addicting nature of the site. When I was younger I spent hours on the site role playing and posting, this was back in 2003 so I know how much time one can spend on the site as I've probably spent well over eight hours a day for ten years on the site. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by me being "relatively new" to this, I've been a user since 2003, moderator since 2006, Omni Moderator since 2006, and admin since 2010 and currently lead the account investigation team for issues such as this. So it's my job to ensure that we're making the right decisions when it comes to bots, how to identify them, and ensure that we are able to distinguish patterns and botting behavior. I understand that people spend hours upon hours on the site, I do myself daily, however, we also need to account for when activity turns for normal behavior patterns into patterns that cannot be replicated by humans. Make sense?

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Catalyste

I brought this up in the other thread as well, and it's very important that you understand this.

As part of their privacy, they cannot disclose another user's information to other users. So even if everyone else is asking for more proof, they cannot do so unless the user involved gives permission to do so.

So in a nutshell, one user cannot request information on another user.


This I do not understand. You realize I provided screenshots of all the responses I got in the ticket system. Which was private and I asked them to tell me what I did wrong and the evidence they have. They told me I "refreshed more than humanly possible" and provided no evidence to prove this.

So it was me privately asking for the details on my ban and they still wouldn't give me anything but vague one line responses.

Questionable Genius

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The staff response OP received is completely unprofessional; it's a lose-lose situation where as a user you are going to be guilty whether you "confess" or not. In a completely unbiased and fair evaluation, the user should be presumed innocent until physical evidence is presented which proves otherwise. Right now it seems OP is banned purely on speculation. I hope that the staff will re-evaluate his case carefully.

On another note, I do not see how botting for gold is still such a prevalent problem on gaia. It's something that gaia can probably fix by limiting the amount of gold a user receives in a time frame from browsing the site, thus discouraging botters. If gaia's concern is how all the refreshes from vendors are taking a toll on the server, they should implement a real time update system in the marketplace that shows new items as they are listed. They already have a similar framework set up for forums.

Friendly Trader

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Scarface`
Catalyste

I brought this up in the other thread as well, and it's very important that you understand this.

As part of their privacy, they cannot disclose another user's information to other users. So even if everyone else is asking for more proof, they cannot do so unless the user involved gives permission to do so.

So in a nutshell, one user cannot request information on another user.


This I do not understand. You realize I provided screenshots of all the responses I got in the ticket system. Which was private and I asked them to tell me what I did wrong and the evidence they have. They told me I "refreshed more than humanly possible" and provided no evidence to prove this.

So it was me privately asking for the details on my ban and they still wouldn't give me anything but vague one line responses.


That and I'm pretty damn sure you are giving full permission for people to see your private information by posting it all up here. Not to mention that for the part of the "normal site activity" and what that entails, you've asked that to them before and they have yet to respond about what that is. Hard to give permission if you weren't even provided that information in private.

Plus, I had a debate with the mods in one of my re threads and they said that it was okay to post private information if the user is lying about the reason behind their banning. This has been going on for awhile now, starting sometime during my hiatus.

If you were posting false information, they would be posting all over the place in there decrying your actions, but they haven't. Which lends legitimacy to what you've posted as being what they actually told you.

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Catalyste

Redo the activities on that day.

Capture them on video that show's his username.

And submit the link to one of the admins or their email.

If he can demonstrate that he can press F5 while pursuing normal site activity without scripts, then case closed. He'll get his account back. So help him set that stuff up. Give him advice on how to set it up. But don't just sit there discussing mathematics. It hasn't been helping you guys thus far.


You don't understand. Asked all the same questions everyone else did threw the ticket system.

And I made several live videos of what I did and submitted them with the ticket. They did not acknlowledge them or any evidence I provided. They mentioned nothing about any of my evidence. Just ignored it and gave me the same vague answer I got from an admin months ago. And then when I continued to add evidence they told me to confess or remain banned.

Friendly Trader

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Naeyru

The staff response OP received is completely unprofessional; it's a lose-lose situation where as a user you are going to be guilty whether you "confess" or not. In a completely unbiased and fair evaluation, the user should be presumed innocent until physical evidence is presented which proves otherwise. Right now it seems OP is banned purely on speculation. I hope that the staff will re-evaluate his case carefully.

On another note, I still do not see how botting for gold is still such a prevalent problem on gaia. It's something that gaia can probably fix by limiting the amount of gold a user receives in a time frame from browsing the site, thus discouraging botters. If gaia's concern is how all the refreshes from vendors are taking a toll on the server, they should implement a real time update system in the marketplace that shows new items as they are listed. They already have a similar framework set up for forums.


I definitely support real time updates for the MP. I posted this solution in another thread as well. The whole reason people refresh like crazy is because it might give them information before everyone else. If they got a real time update that pushed info just as it was being loaded in, then people would have no incentive to refresh. It would certainly be easier and more efficient to send some updated text strings vs an entire page of information and it could be done on the timer used to update the database.

Friendly Trader

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Scarface`
Catalyste

Redo the activities on that day.

Capture them on video that show's his username.

And submit the link to one of the admins or their email.

If he can demonstrate that he can press F5 while pursuing normal site activity without scripts, then case closed. He'll get his account back. So help him set that stuff up. Give him advice on how to set it up. But don't just sit there discussing mathematics. It hasn't been helping you guys thus far.


You don't understand. Asked all the same questions everyone else did threw the ticket system.

And I made several live videos of what I did and submitted them with the ticket. They did not acknlowledge them or any evidence I provided. They mentioned nothing about any of my evidence. Just ignored it and gave me the same vague answer I got from an admin months ago. And then when I continued to add evidence they told me to confess or remain banned.


You seriously made videos too? Wow, that's dedication. And with all that evidence they still assert that you must admit to using artificial aids that you didn't actually use. How disrespectful.

Offer still stands to go to Gaia HQ to demonstrate in person, if they think the videos could be edited or something.

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Alexi_Jameson
Scarface`
Catalyste

I brought this up in the other thread as well, and it's very important that you understand this.

As part of their privacy, they cannot disclose another user's information to other users. So even if everyone else is asking for more proof, they cannot do so unless the user involved gives permission to do so.

So in a nutshell, one user cannot request information on another user.


This I do not understand. You realize I provided screenshots of all the responses I got in the ticket system. Which was private and I asked them to tell me what I did wrong and the evidence they have. They told me I "refreshed more than humanly possible" and provided no evidence to prove this.

So it was me privately asking for the details on my ban and they still wouldn't give me anything but vague one line responses.


That and I'm pretty damn sure you are giving full permission for people to see your private information by posting it all up here. Not to mention that for the part of the "normal site activity" and what that entails, you've asked that to them before and they have yet to respond about what that is. Hard to give permission if you weren't even provided that information in private.

Plus, I had a debate with the mods in one of my re threads and they said that it was okay to post private information if the user is lying about the reason behind their banning. This has been going on for awhile now, starting sometime during my hiatus.

If you were posting false information, they would be posting all over the place in there decrying your actions, but they haven't. Which lends legitimacy to what you've posted as being what they actually told you.

I know right? It took 2 pages before mods came into my first thread and started arguing. But this thread has only had two mod/debs come in and basically told me to ok. Them. No one from the staff has come in and said or argued anything this time! Even in all the threads you made mods came in and argued. But this time none are to be found!

Friendly Trader

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Scarface`
I know right? It took 2 pages before mods came into my first thread and started arguing. But this thread has only had two mod/debs come in and basically told me to ok. Them. No one from the staff has come in and said or argued anything this time! Even in all the threads you made mods came in and argued. But this time none are to be found!


Xya and Prue were kind of bystanders who happened to be mods, really. But I did get some intelligent debate out of Prue at least, which was appreciated, and I managed to get some information about how things work at Gaia through Xya.

The last time Sisky asked me to PM her something, it kind of got lost/forgotten about. Did she have you PM her?

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Alexi_Jameson
Scarface`
Catalyste

Redo the activities on that day.

Capture them on video that show's his username.

And submit the link to one of the admins or their email.

If he can demonstrate that he can press F5 while pursuing normal site activity without scripts, then case closed. He'll get his account back. So help him set that stuff up. Give him advice on how to set it up. But don't just sit there discussing mathematics. It hasn't been helping you guys thus far.


You don't understand. Asked all the same questions everyone else did threw the ticket system.

And I made several live videos of what I did and submitted them with the ticket. They did not acknlowledge them or any evidence I provided. They mentioned nothing about any of my evidence. Just ignored it and gave me the same vague answer I got from an admin months ago. And then when I continued to add evidence they told me to confess or remain banned.


You seriously made videos too? Wow, that's dedication. And with all that evidence they still assert that you must admit to using artificial aids that you didn't actually use. How disrespectful.

Offer still stands to go to Gaia HQ to demonstrate in person, if they think the videos could be edited or something.

Of course I did! Like I said I've been around here for almost 10 years. I've seen countless people, friends even, banned and then left waiting till they eventually give up and leave the site.

Well I've put too much into fighting this to just give up and roll over for Gaia.

The video shows how quickly I refresh with F5 and also how I multitask with two windows open. All videos they basically ignored.

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Alexi_Jameson
Scarface`
I know right? It took 2 pages before mods came into my first thread and started arguing. But this thread has only had two mod/debs come in and basically told me to ok. Them. No one from the staff has come in and said or argued anything this time! Even in all the threads you made mods came in and argued. But this time none are to be found!


Xya and Prue were kind of bystanders who happened to be mods, really. But I did get some intelligent debate out of Prue at least, which was appreciated, and I managed to get some information about how things work at Gaia through Xya.

The last time Sisky asked me to PM her something, it kind of got lost/forgotten about. Did she have you PM her?

Yes I did yesterday. Almost immediately after she asked me too. And I just checked today and it still remains unread.

Which I can understand because she gets a ton of pms a day. But I'm not just going to sit in silence and wait another 8 weeks for another response. Not when they have disrespected me every step of the way. (Excluding Sisky)

Friendly Trader

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Scarface`
Yes I did yesterday. Almost immediately after she asked me too. And I just checked today and it still remains unread.

Which I can understand because she gets a ton of pms a day. But I'm not just going to sit in silence and wait another 8 weeks for another response. Not when they have disrespected me every step of the way. (Excluding Sisky)



PM's to admin and some mods can act oddly. Sometimes they will sit in the outbox even though they've been read. At least you have their attention and a known person to contact rather than just the customer rep. Hopefully this turns out better than the other avenues you've already attempted.

Anyway, no point bumping the topic with this conversation so I'm going to head to bed. Good night.

Tipsy Grabber

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Scarface`


Could I have a link to your previous thread?

What happened to you sounds like complete bs, how can they just ban you because you 'refreshed beyond what was humanly possible' without any hard evidence to back it up? Especially after you even submitted videos.

Gaia.... emotion_facepalm

Ambrosyne's Waifu

Sparkly Lunatic

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Are you kidding me? That's supposed to be a serious reply? People who are banned constantly post in site feedback, and they always end up actually being rightly banned, but I believe this case. If he did wrong, and then they presented this "grand opportunity" where he had to confess, he would have easily gave in. But no, he's still striving to prove his innocence more than wanting to get his account back.

Gaia, what the hell have you become?

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