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Anxious Werewolf

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Keyona

This is probably one reason why i owuld prefer my poodle not to be white.... I would be to tempted to let some of the 'crazy' poodle groomers have to much fun with him.

Just attempt to do the cube one!
I imagine its fun for the first half hour but then three hours in your just done.
(except not really because then you have to air brush)
rofl

Dangerous Lover

Keyona
hiyaim3mily
zombie amoureux
hiyaim3mily
A lot of people think they should put a snake in a vivarium twice as big as its self and it's wrong because snakes like to feel safe, and they feel most safe in tubs.

That's why you should provide some form of shelter/hide in their tank, so they can move around freely if they like or can hide in an enclosed space if they like but are not confined to a small space.


It depends on the snake really, but royal pythons for example prefer to be in a tub, there quite timid and that's why they go into balls, unlike corn snakes they'll be in your face and skittish


we had balls for educational purposes their every day living was ina a large homemade display tank (originally built to house a Burmese on top, and then the bottom split into a place for balls and a blue tongue skink). yes they were taken out daily and handled but they had a good size habitat where they could go where they wanted.


living in a tub would be like only let your dog or cat live in a crate where he can sleep, eat and potty. not a life for any animal. Or in some of those "Hamster/gerbil" trails *shudders*

Seriously, this.

I'm going to sound retarded saying this but I can't think of a better way to phrase it- if the snake wants to ball up or hide then let it, but let that be the animal's choice. Don't confine it and force it to be balled up all the time. That's so cruel. I would never even think of forcing any of my pets- not my amphibiabs, fish, reptiles or mamals- to live most of their life in a space barely larger than themselves.

Friendly Fatcat

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Keyona
hiyaim3mily
zombie amoureux
hiyaim3mily
A lot of people think they should put a snake in a vivarium twice as big as its self and it's wrong because snakes like to feel safe, and they feel most safe in tubs.

That's why you should provide some form of shelter/hide in their tank, so they can move around freely if they like or can hide in an enclosed space if they like but are not confined to a small space.


It depends on the snake really, but royal pythons for example prefer to be in a tub, there quite timid and that's why they go into balls, unlike corn snakes they'll be in your face and skittish


we had balls for educational purposes their every day living was ina a large homemade display tank (originally built to house a Burmese on top, and then the bottom split into a place for balls and a blue tongue skink). yes they were taken out daily and handled but they had a good size habitat where they could go where they wanted.


living in a tub would be like only let your dog or cat live in a crate where he can sleep, eat and potty. not a life for any animal. Or in some of those "Hamster/gerbil" trails *shudders*


I guess it depends how the snake is brung up, that snake was obviously not kept to breed. Did you no if it was feeding fine or if it had an RI? With a tub as well you have better control of temperature so there's a less chance of the snake getting an RI or any other problems. The tubs aren't tiny if your thinking that. There's plenty of space for the snake to move around, you change the size of the tub as it gets bigger. Also with a tub you can place it some were in a hidden place, so they don't get stressed out from movement around them selfs.

Friendly Fatcat

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zombie amoureux
Keyona
hiyaim3mily
zombie amoureux
hiyaim3mily
A lot of people think they should put a snake in a vivarium twice as big as its self and it's wrong because snakes like to feel safe, and they feel most safe in tubs.

That's why you should provide some form of shelter/hide in their tank, so they can move around freely if they like or can hide in an enclosed space if they like but are not confined to a small space.


It depends on the snake really, but royal pythons for example prefer to be in a tub, there quite timid and that's why they go into balls, unlike corn snakes they'll be in your face and skittish


we had balls for educational purposes their every day living was ina a large homemade display tank (originally built to house a Burmese on top, and then the bottom split into a place for balls and a blue tongue skink). yes they were taken out daily and handled but they had a good size habitat where they could go where they wanted.


living in a tub would be like only let your dog or cat live in a crate where he can sleep, eat and potty. not a life for any animal. Or in some of those "Hamster/gerbil" trails *shudders*

Seriously, this.

I'm going to sound retarded saying this but I can't think of a better way to phrase it- if the snake wants to ball up or hide then let it, but let that be the animal's choice. Don't confine it and force it to be balled up all the time. That's so cruel. I would never even think of forcing any of my pets- not my amphibiabs, fish, reptiles or mamals- to live most of their life in a space barely larger than themselves.


It's a natural instinct for a royal python to roll up in a ball when it feels threatened, for example the movement of your hand, that can make it go into a ball. My mum has a large collection of snakes, many years of experience, she finds her snakes are most comfortable in the tubs. We don't find them in balls. We're as before when she first started getting into snakes she had them in vivs and she found them in balls underneath their hides, which shows you there not really comfortable. But again, it does depends on the snake and whether you want to breed it.

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hiyaim3mily
Keyona
hiyaim3mily
zombie amoureux
hiyaim3mily
A lot of people think they should put a snake in a vivarium twice as big as its self and it's wrong because snakes like to feel safe, and they feel most safe in tubs.

That's why you should provide some form of shelter/hide in their tank, so they can move around freely if they like or can hide in an enclosed space if they like but are not confined to a small space.


It depends on the snake really, but royal pythons for example prefer to be in a tub, there quite timid and that's why they go into balls, unlike corn snakes they'll be in your face and skittish


we had balls for educational purposes their every day living was ina a large homemade display tank (originally built to house a Burmese on top, and then the bottom split into a place for balls and a blue tongue skink). yes they were taken out daily and handled but they had a good size habitat where they could go where they wanted.


living in a tub would be like only let your dog or cat live in a crate where he can sleep, eat and potty. not a life for any animal. Or in some of those "Hamster/gerbil" trails *shudders*


I guess it depends how the snake is brung up, that snake was obviously not kept to breed. Did you no if it was feeding fine or if it had an RI? With a tub as well you have better control of temperature so there's a less chance of the snake getting an RI or any other problems. The tubs aren't tiny if your thinking that. There's plenty of space for the snake to move around, you change the size of the tub as it gets bigger. Also with a tub you can place it some were in a hidden place, so they don't get stressed out from movement around them selfs.


All of the snakes from the sand boa we had to the 6+ foot Burmese ate just fine. Both the balls had their preferred places in the housing area but they could stretch fully or curl up if they pleased. Same with the Burmese the only time I ever saw any of the three pythons actually curled up was when they were warming up (the center was kept at 80 all year around sicne we had other exotics that needed the temps up that high).

The snakes never balled or reacted negatively to people moving around them or reaching for them. We took the time to actually care for the snakes and desensitize them even the big Burmese was a sweet heart and calm around people, only time the head worker got tagged was when she had gotten out and decided to sleep on top of the fridge where we kept the food. And the snake immediately let go. Where I worked we had no outside visitors no reason to make anything for the animals pretty. But we took the time and actually put work into all the homes of the animals. The macaws lived in a dog run that they could FLY in with toys; the serval had a room to herself with a custom cat tree, the porcupine and sloth shared a room that was wall to wall branches and resting spots, the dwarf camen lived in a pool in another room, turtles all had proper set ups, the tortisus had the other half of the room that he macaws and the snakes were in, the set up for the snakes/skink made lovely hides for the two boys. All of our animals had daily interaction and stimulating environments. To just have bins and things for animals I think it is wrong. Sure I have a bin cage for my gerbils, but it isn't something that gets tossed on a rack and i don't look at until it needs fed again.

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I hate these systems

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Flutter Fox
Keyona

This is probably one reason why i owuld prefer my poodle not to be white.... I would be to tempted to let some of the 'crazy' poodle groomers have to much fun with him.

Just attempt to do the cube one!
I imagine its fun for the first half hour but then three hours in your just done.
(except not really because then you have to air brush)
rofl


Just getting a poodle ready for a conformation show takes like 3 freaken hours.... and not to mention keeping that fur nice the rest of the year when there isn't compitions, or you are trying to get their hair long enough for the conformation show.....

I never knew how much stuff was created to pamper poodle

pom covers/pee guards....
Snoods...
Full body coats....
special collars to keep the fur where the colar goes protected.....

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Flutter Fox


also i give you tigers:
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they are therapy dogs, and their own gives them new dos for when they work....

Friendly Fatcat

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Keyona
hiyaim3mily
Keyona
hiyaim3mily
zombie amoureux
hiyaim3mily
A lot of people think they should put a snake in a vivarium twice as big as its self and it's wrong because snakes like to feel safe, and they feel most safe in tubs.

That's why you should provide some form of shelter/hide in their tank, so they can move around freely if they like or can hide in an enclosed space if they like but are not confined to a small space.


It depends on the snake really, but royal pythons for example prefer to be in a tub, there quite timid and that's why they go into balls, unlike corn snakes they'll be in your face and skittish


we had balls for educational purposes their every day living was ina a large homemade display tank (originally built to house a Burmese on top, and then the bottom split into a place for balls and a blue tongue skink). yes they were taken out daily and handled but they had a good size habitat where they could go where they wanted.


living in a tub would be like only let your dog or cat live in a crate where he can sleep, eat and potty. not a life for any animal. Or in some of those "Hamster/gerbil" trails *shudders*


I guess it depends how the snake is brung up, that snake was obviously not kept to breed. Did you no if it was feeding fine or if it had an RI? With a tub as well you have better control of temperature so there's a less chance of the snake getting an RI or any other problems. The tubs aren't tiny if your thinking that. There's plenty of space for the snake to move around, you change the size of the tub as it gets bigger. Also with a tub you can place it some were in a hidden place, so they don't get stressed out from movement around them selfs.


All of the snakes from the sand boa we had to the 6+ foot Burmese ate just fine. Both the balls had their preferred places in the housing area but they could stretch fully or curl up if they pleased. Same with the Burmese the only time I ever saw any of the three pythons actually curled up was when they were warming up (the center was kept at 80 all year around sicne we had other exotics that needed the temps up that high).

The snakes never balled or reacted negatively to people moving around them or reaching for them. We took the time to actually care for the snakes and desensitize them even the big Burmese was a sweet heart and calm around people, only time the head worker got tagged was when she had gotten out and decided to sleep on top of the fridge where we kept the food. And the snake immediately let go. Where I worked we had no outside visitors no reason to make anything for the animals pretty. But we took the time and actually put work into all the homes of the animals. The macaws lived in a dog run that they could FLY in with toys; the serval had a room to herself with a custom cat tree, the porcupine and sloth shared a room that was wall to wall branches and resting spots, the dwarf camen lived in a pool in another room, turtles all had proper set ups, the tortisus had the other half of the room that he macaws and the snakes were in, the set up for the snakes/skink made lovely hides for the two boys. All of our animals had daily interaction and stimulating environments. To just have bins and things for animals I think it is wrong. Sure I have a bin cage for my gerbils, but it isn't something that gets tossed on a rack and i don't look at until it needs fed again.

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I hate these systems


I wasn't accusing you of treating any snake wrong, just to clear that up. We both have different opinions on it, but I find vivs are just for appearance, they look nice yes, but the appearance of the in closure won't matter to the snake as long as he feels safe. You might not like the racking system but it's a better way to keep temperatures right. We didnt handle the royals as much because my mum was breeding morphs and for a better chance of the snake becoming gravid they need to be less tame. I admit vivs look good, but as long as the snake is fine and feeding I don't mind what it is. I have a bumble bee royal, and he's absolutely fine in a tub, and feeding great
hiyaim3mily
I admit vivs look good, but as long as the snake is fine and feeding I don't mind what it is. I have a bumble bee royal, and he's absolutely fine in a tub, and feeding great

That's like saying it's okay to keep fish in bowls because they eat and generally seem "fine" and a large aquarium is just for appearances. Or like saying keeping rodents in a cage that's about the same size as a sheet of paper (8.5x11.5inches) is okay so long as they eat and seem healthy. Or as Keyona mentioned, like keeping a dog/cat in just a crate (like mills do)

Anxious Werewolf

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Keyona
Flutter Fox
Keyona

This is probably one reason why i owuld prefer my poodle not to be white.... I would be to tempted to let some of the 'crazy' poodle groomers have to much fun with him.

Just attempt to do the cube one!
I imagine its fun for the first half hour but then three hours in your just done.
(except not really because then you have to air brush)
rofl


Just getting a poodle ready for a conformation show takes like 3 freaken hours.... and not to mention keeping that fur nice the rest of the year when there isn't compitions, or you are trying to get their hair long enough for the conformation show.....

I never knew how much stuff was created to pamper poodle

pom covers/pee guards....
Snoods...
Full body coats....
special collars to keep the fur where the colar goes protected.....

Those are some patient poodles.
I had to google snood poodles and omg I can't stop giggling at them!
There was one lady who did horse competitions and kept her horses tail in a bag all year round.
Until the summer where she would let it loose and it would drag on the ground.
It looked great but the upkeep must have been annoying.

And those tiger poodles are great!
That I can see myself doing.

Friendly Fatcat

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hiyaim3mily
I admit vivs look good, but as long as the snake is fine and feeding I don't mind what it is. I have a bumble bee royal, and he's absolutely fine in a tub, and feeding great

That's like saying it's okay to keep fish in bowls because they eat and generally seem "fine" and a large aquarium is just for appearances. Or like saying keeping rodents in a cage that's about the same size as a sheet of paper (8.5x11.5inches) is okay so long as they eat and seem healthy. Or as Keyona mentioned, like keeping a dog/cat in just a crate (like mills do)


Snake are different to all those animals. They like to feel safe all the time, not threatened. And the tubs aren't that small, your all making it seem like im keeping them in a tiny tub and im not theres plenty of room, upwards too. My mum has been using this system for many years, so have other people. And its been fine, and its made it easier to regulate temperatures, obviously there is nothing wrong with this system. Theres been more cases of snakes that are in a viv that aren't eating or have an RI then in a tub.

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Flutter Fox
Keyona
Flutter Fox
Keyona

This is probably one reason why i owuld prefer my poodle not to be white.... I would be to tempted to let some of the 'crazy' poodle groomers have to much fun with him.

Just attempt to do the cube one!
I imagine its fun for the first half hour but then three hours in your just done.
(except not really because then you have to air brush)
rofl


Just getting a poodle ready for a conformation show takes like 3 freaken hours.... and not to mention keeping that fur nice the rest of the year when there isn't compitions, or you are trying to get their hair long enough for the conformation show.....

I never knew how much stuff was created to pamper poodle

pom covers/pee guards....
Snoods...
Full body coats....
special collars to keep the fur where the colar goes protected.....

Those are some patient poodles.
I had to google snood poodles and omg I can't stop giggling at them!
There was one lady who did horse competitions and kept her horses tail in a bag all year round.
Until the summer where she would let it loose and it would drag on the ground.
It looked great but the upkeep must have been annoying.

And those tiger poodles are great!
That I can see myself doing.


yeah, i want a poodle, but he is always going to be up kept shaggy or trimmed with maybe poms on his legs.
hiyaim3mily
~ Aki - Fairy ~
hiyaim3mily
I admit vivs look good, but as long as the snake is fine and feeding I don't mind what it is. I have a bumble bee royal, and he's absolutely fine in a tub, and feeding great

That's like saying it's okay to keep fish in bowls because they eat and generally seem "fine" and a large aquarium is just for appearances. Or like saying keeping rodents in a cage that's about the same size as a sheet of paper (8.5x11.5inches) is okay so long as they eat and seem healthy. Or as Keyona mentioned, like keeping a dog/cat in just a crate (like mills do)


Snake are different to all those animals. They like to feel safe all the time, not threatened. And the tubs aren't that small, your all making it seem like im keeping them in a tiny tub and im not theres plenty of room, upwards too. My mum has been using this system for many years, so have other people. And its been fine, and its made it easier to regulate temperatures, obviously there is nothing wrong with this system. Theres been more cases of snakes that are in a viv that aren't eating or have an RI then in a tub.

How is it any different than a fish in a bowl or a rodent or two in a small cage? They can both still move around, they have the potential to feel just as safe, or threatened, in tiny enclosures as they do in large ones
Just because somebody's been using it for years doesn't mean it's ideal. (in regards to dogs) People have been using punishment-based training methods and feeding glorified multi-grain cereal with bacon bits for years - clearly both must be all right and those of us that oppose such methods and foods should just shut up because it's fine. Same with keeping fish in bowls/rodents in tiny cages - it's been done for years, I guess it must be fine to do so, those of us that feel they need more space should just keep quiet.

Mewling Lionheart

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whatever fits your personality and lifestyle best
for me it will probably always be a cat

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I would say dogs, cats, and ferrets. smile

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