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plushik
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What would you have to say if you were restricted to the New Testaments in your arguments?


Matthew 5:17.

Also, I could also ask "why would an unchanging and perfect God need to change his "unchanging and perfect" law?

With these two arguments in mind, I think that the Old Testament should be as usable as the New Testament.


If God and Jesus are two different entities. With this assumption in mind, he did not do anything God did in the Old Testament.

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GunsmithKitten
AlastorFate

This is a challenge to Christianity haters who conveniently abuse references from the Old Testaments too much to support their conviction.

What would you have to say if you were restricted to the New Testaments in your arguments?

On a side note, why you may ask, the limitation to New Testaments if Jesus and God are one?
Well, if Jesus and God are not one which is a possibility, and a doctrine adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses, then you can't trash God (Christianity) as a whole based on the actions done by God in the Old Testaments.


Oh quite a bit, all I need is Coorinthians at that point to justify my hatred.


Go ahead. o:

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AlastorFate
GunsmithKitten
AlastorFate

This is a challenge to Christianity haters who conveniently abuse references from the Old Testaments too much to support their conviction.

What would you have to say if you were restricted to the New Testaments in your arguments?

On a side note, why you may ask, the limitation to New Testaments if Jesus and God are one?
Well, if Jesus and God are not one which is a possibility, and a doctrine adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses, then you can't trash God (Christianity) as a whole based on the actions done by God in the Old Testaments.


Oh quite a bit, all I need is Coorinthians at that point to justify my hatred.


Go ahead. o:


IT's not as horror movie gory and over the top violent as Joshua, but all I need is to hear the BIble's take on what it thinks of women in those verses for me to sufficiently hate it.

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Haha Coffee
Without the OT?

We would have to point towards, sexism and discrimination in Pauls works.


Mmm, Paul isn't Jesus. But I accept the point as a possible flaw in the New Testament's morality value.



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Jesus(pbuh) failure to combat slavery, and his passive(and positive) aproval of it(this one doesn't bother me at all..but it bothers some)

Valid point. But not strong enough alone to deem Jesus as bad.


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The promise of hellfire ...


That is reserved for the sinners and non believers. I am more inclined to see it as a neutral law than an evil one, because only the violators of God's laws get punished.

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AlastorFate

That is reserved for the sinners and non believers. I am more inclined to see it as a neutral law than an evil one, because only the violators of God's laws get punished.


Many would argue the fact that this law exists at all, is proof of Evil in the NT.
It's unreasonableness, disproporitonate effect, cruelty, evil and all that.

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As a self-proclaimed Christian hater, what would I say to that?

I would say if CHRISTIANS themselves stuck to the new testament I wouldn't be anywhere near as hateful towards them as I am. And invariably they wouldn't be as hateful towards me either.

The only other point I'd highlight is that moral absolutism in any form limits critical thought. and usually ignores critical context for moral decisions made... all things need to be in context.

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AlastorFate, maybe it's just me but could you please stop minimizing your words. I want to read this thread, and reading should not be a painful experience. Thanks.

Never knew why people did that.

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Haha Coffee
AlastorFate

That is reserved for the sinners and non believers. I am more inclined to see it as a neutral law than an evil one, because only the violators of God's laws get punished.


Many would argue the fact that this law exists at all, is proof of Evil in the NT.
It's unreasonableness, disproporitonate effect, cruelty, evil and all that.


In other words, any religion that has hell related doctrines can be classified as evil in terms of its teaching?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

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Darkphantom
As a self-proclaimed Christian hater, what would I say to that?

I would say if CHRISTIANS themselves stuck to the new testament I wouldn't be anywhere near as hateful towards them as I am. And invariably they wouldn't be as hateful towards me either.

The only other point I'd highlight is that moral absolutism in any form limits critical thought. and usually ignores critical context for moral decisions made... all things need to be in context.


I wouldn't judge a religion based on bad apples. You can do that. But it is like blaming a teacher when a student failed a test, in which the teacher might (or might not) be one of the factors, and most likely there are many other factors at play here.

To be fair, there are some Christians whom I respect a lot and others whom I don't, based on their behaviours and lifestyles.

Moral absolutism is a good point you have brought up. I would say it is good in terms of stability, bad in terms of inflexibility. From a nation's point of view, it is more important for stability (/inflexibility) than flexibility (/subjectivity), in which with the laws being too flexible might leads to confusion among the people.

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Stupid apologists bs, the old testament is as much a part of Christianity as the new.

"What if A was B"

Who gives a crap, it isn't so it doesn't matter.

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Ranga runner
AlastorFate
Ranga runner
AlastorFate
Ranga runner

And I am a unicorn who farts rainbows and has miraculous disco powers biggrin
Of course my statement was more general. It should have read "Christians believe in a wizard..." etc.
Point is I don't need to pull the bible to have a laugh at religion smile

Don't you believe that your dream is real when you are dreaming?

Not sure. I havn't had a dream in a while actually. and when I do I never remember it


Dreams are so real to the dreamers that they believe what they are experiencing are real, however incredible the dreams are.

My point is simple. It is possible for a person to believe in anything. It is a natural human behavioral tendency in every human, based on psychology. There is nothing laughable about it.
It is also a natural human response to seek humour in what we deem as silly. I find the bible laughable biggrin

Okie, in your first two reply posts, you directed them at the people, which is something I don't find etiquettely right. But I am neutral if you directed your humor towards a religion in general. Attacks towards people compared to attacking a subject are two absolute different stance.

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The Catfish Blues
Stupid apologists bs, the old testament is as much a part of Christianity as the new.

"What if A was B"

Who gives a crap, it isn't so it doesn't matter.


Anything is possible since a lot of teachings or events from the Bible were based on purely beliefs with no evidence to back them up.

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AlastorFate
Xiam
AlastorFate
Xiam
AlastorFate

This is a challenge to Christianity haters who conveniently abuse references from the Old Testaments too much to support their conviction.

What would you have to say if you were restricted to the New Testaments in your arguments?

On a side note, why you may ask, the limitation to New Testaments if Jesus and God are one?
Well, if Jesus and God are not one which is a possibility, and a doctrine adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses, then you can't trash God (Christianity) as a whole based on the actions done by God in the Old Testaments.

Except that the Old Testament is still a part of Christian canon, and as Jesus was Jewish, the God of the Hebrews is the God of the Christians.

And God is eternal, yes? His proclamations are meant to be absolute. Unyielding. Unchanging. That is the problem most people have with it all, because human society is not this way.


Reread the point of my first post.

Assumption is the OT God does not equate to Jesus.

Reread the point of my second post. It doesn't matter. As I said, Jesus was Jewish. His God was the Hebrew God.

To put it simply, I am challenging people to argue why Jesus is bad without citing references from the Old Testaments, based on a non-Trinitarian perspective.

Ohhh, why Jesus is bad.

Matthew 18:7-9 (ESV)
"Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire."

Best I can think of. I can only hope he was speaking figuratively.

For clarification though, I've got no beef with Jesus, and actually am not even a "hater" of Christianity. The only trouble I find with believers (and nonbelievers) is when they're so caught up in their own dogma that they don't really care to think that other opinions could be equally valid.

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Regardless of whether or not Jesus is God, God is still a proverbial douchebag.

So either Jesus is God and thus a douchebag.

OR

Jesus isn't God and is just the primary servant of said douchebag.

Who is more a fool? The Fool, or the one who follows him? The same can be said of douchebags methinks.

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"It's cool bro. You slaughtered a couple million people or so, but meh, that's in the past." - Conversation between Christians and God in my imagination. :B
Gaia Forums » MISC Forums » Forum & Sticky Archive » Morality and Religion

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