Welcome to Gaia! ::

Gaia Forums » GAIA Community » Extended Discussion
<3 </3
Reply
< 1 2 3 ... 11 12 13 >

5,950 Points
  • Mark Twain 100
  • Megathread 100
  • Invisibility 100
Offline
Styx waters
i agree, but next time, please make that shorter.

Offline
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
AngelSlayer The Elder
lumnata
Vixianna


No. Our country is broke and can't afford our bloated military budget, but you know, let's cut the programs keeping America alive, instead of the contracts to big business.
For real.

And since when can illegal immigrants get Social Security? Pretty sure they can't.... even though they contribute billions TO social security for programs they can't receive.

And "really" disabled people, LOL. Someone has no clue the process it takes to get on disability.


How do they contribute billions, since they can't get a SS Card legally??
They contribute nearly $7 billion a year. They get fake numbers to get a job. I THINK they can also file taxes without a SS number but I could be wrong on that. The IRS doesn't care so much as long as they get their money.



So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.

"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf

"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src

Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf

See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town


Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?

Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.

6,450 Points
  • Prayer Circle 200
  • First step to fame 200
  • Invisibility 100
Offline
For the most part I agree with you, but you do realize we're on a global food shortage and the US is one of the few agricultural countries supporting much of the rest of the world? The Southern US between drought,fire and heat has had a HUGE impact on production. Farmers aren't going to have to worry about not having product bought if we cut EBT spending. They'll just sell to other countries if Americans themselves aren't buying.

Honestly though with all social programs I don't really agree with either Republicans or Democrats. Social spending just puts bandaids on the real problem, they don't actually take care of the underlying wound. What's really needed is a re-evaluation of values not just by the political system, but by the people as well. The overwhelming majority is so concerned with personal profit that we're blind to the compromise and community necessary to put our heads together and find a more effective solution.

(That, and I think it's hideous that people think the federal government should be doing everything to take care of the poor. Why can't the people help each other as well?)

Beloved Genius

7,450 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Forum Dabbler 200
  • Full closet 200
Offline
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
AngelSlayer The Elder

How do they contribute billions, since they can't get a SS Card legally??
They contribute nearly $7 billion a year. They get fake numbers to get a job. I THINK they can also file taxes without a SS number but I could be wrong on that. The IRS doesn't care so much as long as they get their money.


So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.
"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf
"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src
Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf
See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town

Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?
Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.


I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with your original thrust that "illegals" don't pay taxes?

Offline
Vixianna
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
AngelSlayer The Elder

How do they contribute billions, since they can't get a SS Card legally??
They contribute nearly $7 billion a year. They get fake numbers to get a job. I THINK they can also file taxes without a SS number but I could be wrong on that. The IRS doesn't care so much as long as they get their money.


So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.
"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf
"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src
Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf
See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town

Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?
Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.


I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with your original thrust that "illegals" don't pay taxes?


Not what I said. I said they don't LEGALLY pay taxes. The above example is merely a case, one of many, in which they ******** someone else up because they steal the social to get a job.

Beloved Genius

7,450 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Forum Dabbler 200
  • Full closet 200
Offline
Old Blue Collar Joe
Vixianna
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe


So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.
"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf
"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src
Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf
See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town

Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?
Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.


I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with your original thrust that "illegals" don't pay taxes?


Not what I said. I said they don't LEGALLY pay taxes. The above example is merely a case, one of many, in which they ******** someone else up because they steal the social to get a job.


Which does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that immigrants illegal or no help the US economy as a whole. US citizens get their SSN stolen and get shafted by other citizens, that's not something illegals just do. More over, they aren't taking jobs Americans really want, and are contributing to the nation. I don't think they should come here illegally if at all possible to get here legally within a reasonable amount of time.(Unfortunately unlikely at this juncture), but that doesn't mean they are a menace or that they are hurting the American economy and legal American citizens as a whole.

Offline
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
AngelSlayer The Elder


How do they contribute billions, since they can't get a SS Card legally??
They contribute nearly $7 billion a year. They get fake numbers to get a job. I THINK they can also file taxes without a SS number but I could be wrong on that. The IRS doesn't care so much as long as they get their money.



So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.

"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf

"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src

Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf

See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town


Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?

Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.
OHNOES! One example of one thing I said means they're all BADBADPPLZ. Guess it's easier to find one bad thing than to, like, actually address my points, though, huh? Hell, I coulda told you there are bad immigrants, just like there are bad Americans. But yeah, this whole economy thing is ALL THEIR FAULT TEHYRE TAKING OUR JOBBZZ! rolleyes

Offline
Mikhail Archangel
Styx waters
i agree, but next time, please make that shorter.

what the hell....

Offline
Vixianna
Old Blue Collar Joe
Vixianna
Old Blue Collar Joe
lumnata
Old Blue Collar Joe


So...they lie to get into the country, and then lie again to get a job that a legal resident/citizen could use, thereby increasing the number of people on unemployment/the public tit, but they are 'good for the economy' and moral and upstanding people...with the exception of violating a few laws. Gotcha.
They don't just work here in a vacuum. While they might take some jobs a few Americans would (reluctantly) get, they also create jobs by using goods and services: they buy food, stay in hotels, rent apartments and use utilities, buy appliances, cars, go out to eat, etc.
"while new workers add to the supply of labor, they also consume goods and services, creating more jobs. An economy with more people does not mean lower wages and higher unemployment, it is simply a bigger economy. Just because New York is bigger than Los Angeles does not in and of itself mean workers in New York are worse off than workers in Los Angeles." -pdf
"The most accurate way to gauge the net impact of immigration on such an economy is to analyze the effects dynamically over time. Data show that, on net, immigrants expand the U.S. economy’s productive capacity, stimulate investment, and promote specialization that in the long run boosts productivity. Consistent with previous research, there is no evidence that these effects take place at the expense of jobs for workers born in the United States." -src
Immigrants are 30% more likely to start their own businesses. pdf
See also: 2 big lies about immigration disproved in one town

Why are you choosing to run in circle and ignore reality? There are people that get audited by the IRS because some shitbag stole their SSN, but hey!! Who cares?
Keep on defending and making excuses. Doesn't change reality.


I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with your original thrust that "illegals" don't pay taxes?


Not what I said. I said they don't LEGALLY pay taxes. The above example is merely a case, one of many, in which they ******** someone else up because they steal the social to get a job.


Which does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that immigrants illegal or no help the US economy as a whole. US citizens get their SSN stolen and get shafted by other citizens, that's not something illegals just do. More over, they aren't taking jobs Americans really want, and are contributing to the nation. I don't think they should come here illegally if at all possible to get here legally within a reasonable amount of time.(Unfortunately unlikely at this juncture), but that doesn't mean they are a menace or that they are hurting the American economy and legal American citizens as a whole.


How the hell does it 'help' the economy by putting another person on the public tit, be it welfare or unemployment, (and let's clarify one big a** point, I haven't said jack s**t about legal immigrants. They're not the ones breaking the law, and are more than welcome).
Don't start with the 'jobs no one really want'. There's a lot of jobs people 'don't want' to do. That's why they're called jobs, not hobbies.
Yeah, every time one runs someone over drunk, or rapes someone, or takes a job and uses someone elses SSI, forcing that person to undergo a possible audit? They speak for all the illegals.

Dangerous Noob

6,900 Points
  • Forum Regular 100
  • Forum Junior 100
  • Cats vs Dogs 100
Offline
Lateralus es Helica
For the most part I agree with you, but you do realize we're on a global food shortage and the US is one of the few agricultural countries supporting much of the rest of the world? The Southern US between drought,fire and heat has had a HUGE impact on production. Farmers aren't going to have to worry about not having product bought if we cut EBT spending. They'll just sell to other countries if Americans themselves aren't buying.

Honestly though with all social programs I don't really agree with either Republicans or Democrats. Social spending just puts bandaids on the real problem, they don't actually take care of the underlying wound. What's really needed is a re-evaluation of values not just by the political system, but by the people as well. The overwhelming majority is so concerned with personal profit that we're blind to the compromise and community necessary to put our heads together and find a more effective solution.

(That, and I think it's hideous that people think the federal government should be doing everything to take care of the poor. Why can't the people help each other as well?)
I have health problems that make it so I can't work. Or if I ever could it would have to be from home with a practicably stress-less job and I'd have to go very slow... my disability is such that I don't think I will ever be able to live independently. I get money from the government due to this that helps take some of the load off my parents who I live with. so to answer the question, social spending is nessasary

It tortures me inside knowing all my abilities and not being able to utilize them like a normal person.
It doesn't help that I am ambitious...

Dangerous Noob

6,900 Points
  • Forum Regular 100
  • Forum Junior 100
  • Cats vs Dogs 100
Offline
Oh and has to how they should fund things? How about taxing the super rich people. Did you know that the richest 3% of Americans pay NO TAXES AT ALL

Making big corporations pay their fare share of taxes would also help

6,450 Points
  • Prayer Circle 200
  • First step to fame 200
  • Invisibility 100
Offline
AlphonseXtansyXElric
Lateralus es Helica
For the most part I agree with you, but you do realize we're on a global food shortage and the US is one of the few agricultural countries supporting much of the rest of the world? The Southern US between drought,fire and heat has had a HUGE impact on production. Farmers aren't going to have to worry about not having product bought if we cut EBT spending. They'll just sell to other countries if Americans themselves aren't buying.

Honestly though with all social programs I don't really agree with either Republicans or Democrats. Social spending just puts bandaids on the real problem, they don't actually take care of the underlying wound. What's really needed is a re-evaluation of values not just by the political system, but by the people as well. The overwhelming majority is so concerned with personal profit that we're blind to the compromise and community necessary to put our heads together and find a more effective solution.

(That, and I think it's hideous that people think the federal government should be doing everything to take care of the poor. Why can't the people help each other as well?)
I have health problems that make it so I can't work. Or if I ever could it would have to be from home with a practicably stress-less job and I'd have to go very slow... my disability is such that I don't think I will ever be able to live independently. I get money from the government due to this that helps take some of the load off my parents who I live with. so to answer the question, social spending is nessasary

It tortures me inside knowing all my abilities and not being able to utilize them like a normal person.
It doesn't help that I am ambitious...


I think you misunderstand, but I'll clarify and find out I suppose. I'm not saying social spending should be cut entirely, but a good portion of the programs out there under debate aren't solving any real issues. As a metaphor, say I'm a doctor and I have a patient that constantly suffers from acute leg cramps. I can keep giving him medication to dull the pain, thus solving the surface problem. OR I could actually find the cause of the cramps and treat that instead.

A lot of government spending (mind you not all, disability is but one of many social programs out there and not the entire story) does just that in my opinion. It solves surface problems to make them seem all fine and dandy but doesn't get to the root of the issue to really solve problems. A lot of times as well many members of government adamently refuse to look at the results of such spending, HUD for example.

It's a combination of that and of people's unwillingness to even show basic compassion to one another, to instead pawn off the responsibility on government so it's out of sight out of mind nothing lost out of my pocket that makes me disagree with social spending as it is. But whether or not we have moral responsibilities towards one another is another conversation entirely.

Lunatic

Offline
Lateralus es Helica
AlphonseXtansyXElric
Lateralus es Helica
For the most part I agree with you, but you do realize we're on a global food shortage and the US is one of the few agricultural countries supporting much of the rest of the world? The Southern US between drought,fire and heat has had a HUGE impact on production. Farmers aren't going to have to worry about not having product bought if we cut EBT spending. They'll just sell to other countries if Americans themselves aren't buying.

Honestly though with all social programs I don't really agree with either Republicans or Democrats. Social spending just puts bandaids on the real problem, they don't actually take care of the underlying wound. What's really needed is a re-evaluation of values not just by the political system, but by the people as well. The overwhelming majority is so concerned with personal profit that we're blind to the compromise and community necessary to put our heads together and find a more effective solution.

(That, and I think it's hideous that people think the federal government should be doing everything to take care of the poor. Why can't the people help each other as well?)
I have health problems that make it so I can't work. Or if I ever could it would have to be from home with a practicably stress-less job and I'd have to go very slow... my disability is such that I don't think I will ever be able to live independently. I get money from the government due to this that helps take some of the load off my parents who I live with. so to answer the question, social spending is nessasary

It tortures me inside knowing all my abilities and not being able to utilize them like a normal person.
It doesn't help that I am ambitious...


I think you misunderstand, but I'll clarify and find out I suppose. I'm not saying social spending should be cut entirely, but a good portion of the programs out there under debate aren't solving any real issues. As a metaphor, say I'm a doctor and I have a patient that constantly suffers from acute leg cramps. I can keep giving him medication to dull the pain, thus solving the surface problem. OR I could actually find the cause of the cramps and treat that instead.

A lot of government spending (mind you not all, disability is but one of many social programs out there and not the entire story) does just that in my opinion. It solves surface problems to make them seem all fine and dandy but doesn't get to the root of the issue to really solve problems. A lot of times as well many members of government adamently refuse to look at the results of such spending, HUD for example.

It's a combination of that and of people's unwillingness to even show basic compassion to one another, to instead pawn off the responsibility on government so it's out of sight out of mind nothing lost out of my pocket that makes me disagree with social spending as it is. But whether or not we have moral responsibilities towards one another is another conversation entirely.

"With my right hand I stroke your cheek..."

To be frank, please name some if they're so common that the majority should be cut out, and why.

"...With my left I stop your breathing."

Offline
Some of those poor people are taking from the poor that can't get this programs. I really think that Welfare should not be used to buy tobacco, Junk food, toys, entertainment, prepared foods outside the food store. They need to spend the money on such things as rent, healthy foods, education, scripts, and so forth. I do not believe that some Welfare offices allow people to use their EBT cash cards to get out money. It's only a cause for abuse.

Offline
soul_less_human
Lateralus es Helica
AlphonseXtansyXElric
Lateralus es Helica
For the most part I agree with you, but you do realize we're on a global food shortage and the US is one of the few agricultural countries supporting much of the rest of the world? The Southern US between drought,fire and heat has had a HUGE impact on production. Farmers aren't going to have to worry about not having product bought if we cut EBT spending. They'll just sell to other countries if Americans themselves aren't buying.

Honestly though with all social programs I don't really agree with either Republicans or Democrats. Social spending just puts bandaids on the real problem, they don't actually take care of the underlying wound. What's really needed is a re-evaluation of values not just by the political system, but by the people as well. The overwhelming majority is so concerned with personal profit that we're blind to the compromise and community necessary to put our heads together and find a more effective solution.

(That, and I think it's hideous that people think the federal government should be doing everything to take care of the poor. Why can't the people help each other as well?)
I have health problems that make it so I can't work. Or if I ever could it would have to be from home with a practicably stress-less job and I'd have to go very slow... my disability is such that I don't think I will ever be able to live independently. I get money from the government due to this that helps take some of the load off my parents who I live with. so to answer the question, social spending is nessasary

It tortures me inside knowing all my abilities and not being able to utilize them like a normal person.
It doesn't help that I am ambitious...


I think you misunderstand, but I'll clarify and find out I suppose. I'm not saying social spending should be cut entirely, but a good portion of the programs out there under debate aren't solving any real issues. As a metaphor, say I'm a doctor and I have a patient that constantly suffers from acute leg cramps. I can keep giving him medication to dull the pain, thus solving the surface problem. OR I could actually find the cause of the cramps and treat that instead.

A lot of government spending (mind you not all, disability is but one of many social programs out there and not the entire story) does just that in my opinion. It solves surface problems to make them seem all fine and dandy but doesn't get to the root of the issue to really solve problems. A lot of times as well many members of government adamently refuse to look at the results of such spending, HUD for example.

It's a combination of that and of people's unwillingness to even show basic compassion to one another, to instead pawn off the responsibility on government so it's out of sight out of mind nothing lost out of my pocket that makes me disagree with social spending as it is. But whether or not we have moral responsibilities towards one another is another conversation entirely.

"With my right hand I stroke your cheek..."

To be frank, please name some if they're so common that the majority should be cut out, and why.

"...With my left I stop your breathing."


Prescription Tylenol. There are so many people abusing this drug it's not funny. Why have think the warning for liver damage and ect have gone out? I work in Pharmacy and I can tell you that people will pay full price for prescription pain killers. These really need to be regulated. You can make other drugs and overdoes.
Gaia Forums » GAIA Community » Extended Discussion

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
More
Get GCash
Offers
More
Get Items
More Items
More
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
  • Guilds
    fan clubs for the stuff you love
  • Chat
    chat in real time with other Gaian's
  • Art Arenas
    browse & rate gaian art galleries
  • Clans
    play zOMG with others
More
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
More
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
More
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum
More