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Zee Coldwater

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Post: 57508401_31 created on Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:57:20 +0000
Posted: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:57:20 +0000

Why mention it?

Because some people just happen to be LBGT and it doesn't affect them much.

The problem is that when you don't mention someone's sexuality, it's automatically assumed they're straight. And furthermore, one's sexuality can and does influence things outside of romantic relationships and politics. Pretending it doesn't is silly, especially when it's something that comes under scrutiny and criticism as often as homosexuality/bisexuality.

Liralen

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Post: 57508401_32 created on Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:02:38 +0000
Posted: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:02:38 +0000

I did say usually.

BlinkingBlah

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Post: 57508401_33 created on Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:11:40 +0000
Posted: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:11:40 +0000

Bara is different than Yaoi but it is mostly rough and tough sexy.

Empuska

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Post: 57508401_34 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:32:59 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 14:32:59 +0000

Zee Coldwater

Give some credit for the readers. I mean, you have the whole story to bring out the personalities of the characters and I bet that people rather read the characters as persons than what kind of sexualities they are representing, if the story has no romantic affairs. It's just poor writing, if you have to make an excuse "he does/likes/thinks that because he's gay".

Zee Coldwater

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Post: 57508401_35 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:35:19 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:35:19 +0000

You misunderstand me. One's sexuality is not a character trait, no, but like everything else about one's biological make-up and the circumstances of one's birth, it heavily influences the sort of person one is and one's experiences in life. And that's very important in a character.

The attitude of "if there's no ********, why even mention they're gay" is why the only time you ever really see queer people as actual characters is in romance and erotica.

Empuska

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Post: 57508401_36 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:11:46 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:11:46 +0000

Well what's the problem? Since personality and the mind who chooses, how to react in different situations, are mold by dozens and dozens of different things, does sexuality really make people act in non-sexual matters (or issues of sexual minorities) so that we can point out, is he gay or not? My point is that individual's story, experiences and taste are so scattered from each other that relying on expectations of the reader is plain bad writing. For me anything, where the writer clearly states, that his gay, French or bible billy in means of giving certain image from the character, is bad writing, because most likely it relays on stereotypes.

Zee Coldwater

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Post: 57508401_37 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:53:57 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:53:57 +0000

No, you can't tell if someone is queer by the way they act. But being an other, a minority, often a mistrusted or worse, persecuted minority does and will affect you.

Furthermore, once again, why have any sort of character? Why have female characters, if they aren't having kids? Why have African American characters, if they're not actively fighting economic hardship and de facto segregation?

You're assuming that being queer is this quaint little bedroom thing that magically stops applying when you step outside. Being otherised and misunderstood and losing your friends are all big things and they're non-sexual, just as an example.

And hell, lots of G-rated stories have romance. Why does it have to be straight? Is it automatically filthy smut just because it's two boys or two girls, instead of a boy and a girl?

Vena

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Post: 57508401_38 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:10:19 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:10:19 +0000

@ Spork, I think you are killing an idea before it has a chance to grow. The most brilliant of writers will still have misinterpretations of their work. There is always the chance that an idiot will latch on to something and wave it around, but it isn't going to change the actual quality of your story. I don't think you should stop yourself from making something because you are afraid it will be taken the wrong way.

iianbe

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Post: 57508401_39 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:12:49 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:12:49 +0000

IronSpike

Paging iianbe to Gaia thread number 57508401-dash-16, that's thread number 57508401-dash-16, TJ and Amal's assistance is required. Thank yooooou.

My referrer logs tell me you called?

Actually, the "focusing on The Gay" comments bring up something that I've been working on recently - when I first got the story rolling, I was like "just people, gay's no big deal, derp de derp" and didn't account for the effects of the extra anxieties, various injustices, and from one place to the next, not knowing if it is safe to be honest about a major facet of your identity.

I just wrapped up Chapter 20, and hope that that undercurrent will come across - Amal isn't feeling terribly comfortable at a diner in a small midwestern town, and when TJ makes some stupid, joking innuendo in his direction, he's like "okay okay haha that's great (shut up shut up shut up)", in contrast with his relaxed and open behavior in private, in the previous chapter.

If I did the "just write 'em like people" thing, I'd default to writing them like me, which... no.

...Or, y'know, I could come here and just talk about dicks.

ETA: Aaaand Zee Coldwater pretty much said everything I stumbled over here, but much more eloquently.

Also, update schedule: at least one new page every Tuesday (I'm putting up 3 pages on the 5th)

Empuska

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Post: 57508401_40 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:26:29 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:26:29 +0000

Well, sorry, the cruel fact is that gays differs from straights that they have sex with same sex. I haven't said one word about keeping straights somehow superior from gays, all I'm saying that down the line the only thing that makes sexualities differ from each other are the object, which raises sexual feelings (romantic feelings are related to sexuality too). It's your problem then, if you keep it as smut or filth, because for me, it's not smut or filth, more of natural and beautiful thing. I would rather be glad that's the only thing that differs, because there's much more differences between women and men than gays and straights.

As reader and writer, we both know that we are the one, who know our own character better than anyone else, but writing a story included these characters, we can't just tell every little detail about it. I don't consider sexuality such a fact, that have to be told, if it's unnecessary for the story (was the character straight, gay or bisexual). I mean, there dozens and dozens and dozens of graphic novels, where they don't tell their characters sexualities, because it's _irrelevant_ for the story. I have no idea, what sexuality of V from V for Vendetta is and quite frankly, I don't care was he gay or straight or whatever, because it wouldn't bring anything for the story.

And to be honest, I've never categorized V as having any sexuality. Same thing goes nearly every character, which sexuality issue doesn't bring anything for the story. So it's kind of extremely blunt to say, that people think naturally that everyone is straight. Heck, I've been shocked more times, when my friends have said they are dating someone, who isn't same sex as them.

Mighty Smurgleburf

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Post: 57508401_41 created on Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:36:46 +0000
Posted: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:36:46 +0000

The world could use more gay characters and a little less heteronormativity.

How do you feel about stories that aren't in any way focused on the romance but still have a gay couple? Why bring up anybody's sexuality, be it straight or gay? Even stories that don't have a focus on romance might still bring up romantic themes with a straight couple, but you have an objection when they're gay? That's the sort of attitude that, as Zee said, is limiting stories about homosexuality to romance and erotica.