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Do you think that the anime and manga style is a legitimate art style and movement?

I would consider it a style, but not movement 0.37931034482759 37.9% [ 55 ]
I think it's both a style and movement! 0.32413793103448 32.4% [ 47 ]
I don't think the anime style is either! 0.055172413793103 5.5% [ 8 ]
Anime is a waste of space!! Kabooow! 0.027586206896552 2.8% [ 4 ]
Realism people! Realism! 0.055172413793103 5.5% [ 8 ]
ILOVEANIMEYAYKAWAIIIIIII! 0.15862068965517 15.9% [ 23 ]
Total Votes:[ 145 ]
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Kat Goddess
imperssionist period


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Anime is an illustrative artform, generally commercial. This is at the very least where it got its start. Meaning it's a sort of stylized, narrative form of art. Anime will never be considered an art movement in a history book (IMO) is too commercially mainstream. Now the influence of the style integrated into personal artworks with personal content is a different matter.

Anime is a stylized distortion. The problem is generally that people who don't study life don't learn to master drawing and then distorting. Then the result is art that is distorted but not by a logical mathematical divider. Therefore, the drawing is not convincing to the eye. This is the general problem I see with most poorly copied anime. If the image has enough strong decorative quality (repetition, harmony, well thought-out line, emphasis, composition, etc.) then the proportion may become less important. Its how someone can be so good at a more decorative style and be so poor at drawing convincingly.

If you choose to do art without doing life studies, that's your business. I honestly don't care how an artist learns to create, I only look at the end result. The truth is I think for most viewers, that's all they care about as well.

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Unchi-tan
Artistic Tsuna
I disagree greatly that you think anime isn't a high art. There are absolutely amazing artists out there that produce the highest quality of art. Just because alot of artists aren't the best at it doesn't mean it should be classified as low art. Also, if you want to avoid long, pointless discussions, I suggest you go somewhere other than the Art discussion forum.

You don't know who I am, do you?

And you also don't understand the definition of "high art" at all, or why anime will never be a high art. The "high" doesn't stand for quality.

You don't even know what an art movement is. Expressionism is an art movement, art nouveau is an art movement. Anime itself is just a kind of cartoon and does not by itself represent a movement.

Teachers don't consider anime to be an art form because it's not an art form. It's a drawing style. How can you not know or understand the difference?

Please do yourself a favor and read up on art history before you attempt a discussion about art with me or anyone else in this forum who's not autistic or 14 years old. Right now you're just embarrassing yourself.

And by all means post some of your artwork here for us to see. If you've been drawing for "a few years" and learning from anime is just as good as learning from life, you should be good enough to share your work with us.


Oh wow, 14 and autistic? How amazing. You're right, I have no idea who you are, and quite frankly I don't care. You seem just a little bit stuck up for my tastes anyway.

art movement

noun
a group of artists who agree on general principles

Hmmm, is that not what we're seeing here in anime styled art? Are there not a group of artists agreeing on general principles? From what I've seen from the general community, I'm pretty sure there are.

Well, I don't think I actually said that anime styled art was an art form. Yes, it comes in many different forms but I didn't say it was an art form in itself. I said it was a style, in the exact same way that Cubism or Art Nouveau is a style.

As for me posting up my own art, yes, I think I am good enough to show my own art, but that wasn't the reason I was putting it up. I was posting it to show the progression, which I'm sure would be very similar to learning from real life. Learning to draw isn't just something that you learn over night. It takes years to master. Yes I admit that I still have a long way to go, but that is simply from the fact that one is always improving upon what they do in terms of art, which covers pretty much everything. You don't just pick up an instrument and know how to play. It takes a long time to learn, and even if you get to a point that you're happy with, there are always ways to improve.

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Major Malfunction
Artistic Tsuna
I'd be more than happy to show off my art to the community. It's more that people wouldn't take the time and look back to see how much I've actually improved. Also, I still have a very, very long way to go. I've only been drawing for a few years.


If you don't think your own work is good enough to even show people, then why do you feel qualified to give other people advice on how to learn to draw?
I do in fact think my art is good enough to show and I'm not giving advice on how to learn to draw. I'm trying to justify the reason why so many people do choose to learn to draw through anime.

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Artistic Tsuna
I do in fact think my art is good enough to show


We're waiting, then.

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Major Malfunction
Artistic Tsuna
I do in fact think my art is good enough to show


We're waiting, then.


It's in the opening post. sweatdrop Maybe he edited it or something, but his art has been there for at least the past 12 hours.

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Unchi-tan

And it is the worst way to learn how to draw. You'd be tons better if you'd drop it and learn the basics first. I'm not going into the the absurd "learning from manga is just like learning from life" argument because I simply can't respond to that in a way that will not offend you.


It's not the WORST way to learn how to draw. One could roll up a sheet of paper, crumble up some graphite, eat them, and hope you literally crap out good art. o.o

... I mean, okay, it's not the optimum way to draw, but don't use the word worst, I could think of 30 worse ways to learn how to draw, and probably a couple of them some people have actually tried.

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Though I respect your opinion, I would have to disagree.

I started out in anime, and totally regret it. I'm having a hard time depicting reality without simplifying things. And yes, practicing realism is frustrating, but it's sooo rewarding in the end. You develop a better sense of what's around you, rather than relying on someone else's view of the world around them--which can limit you in so many ways.

Is anime art? Of course. What annoys a lot of people, though, is that kids (and adults too, I guess) RELY on anime to teach them how the body is built, how everything around them should be, and that is, in my opinion, the wrong way to do it. Again, you're basing your artistic view on someone else's, and when that happens, people tend to stagnate, thinking that they've reached their "style" and achieved the artistic dream of individuality when really, they're just a twig off someone else's branch.

I guess my case in point would be a quote from some car commercial: "Be influenced by many, be defined by none." Settling into anime makes you do the opposite.

Oh, I'm probably not very clear on this post, but it's a smidgen of my own two cents. wink

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Artistic Tsuna

art movement

noun
a group of artists who agree on general principles

Hmmm, is that not what we're seeing here in anime styled art? Are there not a group of artists agreeing on general principles?

Wut. You paste me a definition and still don't think that you're wrong?
Quote:
a group of artists who agree on general principles


Anime is not an art movement. You could use this to define cartooning and illustration as art movements, but not anime. There is no specific intent, collective principle or goal in anime art that differs it from either one of those two, therefore it is a branch of an existing art movement, namely cartooning, if you want to label it as one (I don't).

Looking things up in a dictionary and posting a short definition doesn't make you look smart. Especially not when you're talking to an art instructor and clearly don't understand what you just posted.

Also, your artwork has proven that you're wrong about learning to draw from anime. Your progress is not even remotely close to what an art student taking life drawing classes would present in less than one year.

Example:

August 2006:
User Image

February 2007:
User Image

This is just her cartoon work. You should see the portraits she's painting now. She's illustrating books already, and she's only been in my class for a couple of years. She draws from life religiously, and it is showing through even in her highly stylized cartoon characters. I don't have any of her newer stuff to post here, but I don't think I need to.

Stop copying manga, kiddo, and learn it right.

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Art imitates reality. Anime is a branch off of reality. However, anime is already a superdeformed branch of reality. When someone begins to draw anime, there aren't many ways for them to develop their own style. Variance in anime-art is very, very little. Everything is the same, every character is the same. Look at the avatars on Gaia. Simply color swaps, pattern swaps, minor clothing differences. It is all drawn from the same doll. And that to me is the main issue with anime. The artist is unable to develop their own identity, usually unable to break free from its bad anatomy, and it makes other types of art incredibly difficult because once one has progressed so deeply into something that is fundamentally incorrect, they're unable or unwilling to learn the basics and re-learn what they believe they already know.

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I think it's sort of sad that people seem to discount the influence and impact of anime on our current culture.

The same way a lot of people discount the influence of Disney.

While I disagree that anime is a good place to learn anatomy, I sort of agree with the tone of your post and your over-arcing point.

Anime has influenced a generation to pick up and start drawing [again]. Disney hasn't done that since they stopped making 2D animation on a regular basis. Comic books haven't done that since they dropped in popularity over a decade ago.


It's best to ignore all of the hate. People will always hate things that are so incredibly popular and in your face.

It doesn't help that otaku are annoying people. (The Japanese don't like otaku either!)

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designed freedom
I think it's sort of sad that people seem to discount the influence and impact of anime on our current culture.

The same way a lot of people discount the influence of Disney.

While I disagree that anime is a good place to learn anatomy, I sort of agree with the tone of your post and your over-arcing point.

Anime has influenced a generation to pick up and start drawing [again]. Disney hasn't done that since they stopped making 2D animation on a regular basis. Comic books haven't done that since they dropped in popularity over a decade ago.


It's best to ignore all of the hate. People will always hate things that are so incredibly popular and in your face.

It doesn't help that otaku are annoying people. (The Japanese don't like otaku either!)


Anime -is- what got a lot of people to draw in the first place. But it does contribute to a glutton of s**t art. But if even 5 percent of the anime drawing population drones evolve into making art, graphic design, something substantial, then it -is- good.

However, in terms of being a legitimate art form, or even being any 'good', or a decent place to learn anything about it, no, not really. That's why so many of the pieces on here, at least 90 percent are just illustrations of a person standing there, or doing a pose. There is no thought of where something goes in a canvas, no concept of visual impact, -none- of the principles of design are used at all.

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KittyDuckSatire
designed freedom
I think it's sort of sad that people seem to discount the influence and impact of anime on our current culture.

The same way a lot of people discount the influence of Disney.

While I disagree that anime is a good place to learn anatomy, I sort of agree with the tone of your post and your over-arcing point.

Anime has influenced a generation to pick up and start drawing [again]. Disney hasn't done that since they stopped making 2D animation on a regular basis. Comic books haven't done that since they dropped in popularity over a decade ago.


It's best to ignore all of the hate. People will always hate things that are so incredibly popular and in your face.

It doesn't help that otaku are annoying people. (The Japanese don't like otaku either!)


Anime -is- what got a lot of people to draw in the first place. But it does contribute to a glutton of s**t art. But if even 5 percent of the anime drawing population drones evolve into making art, graphic design, something substantial, then it -is- good.

However, in terms of being a legitimate art form, or even being any 'good', or a decent place to learn anything about it, no, not really. That's why so many of the pieces on here, at least 90 percent are just illustrations of a person standing there, or doing a pose. There is no thought of where something goes in a canvas, no concept of visual impact, -none- of the principles of design are used at all.
I never said that anime was a good place to learn anything. I said I disagreed with the OPs point there. wink

You also have to remember that most of the people posting on Gaia or on just about any casual art site have little or no ambition for being artists, have little ambition for creating art beyond making nice pictures of their favorites characters (OC or fan art) or their avatars.

To expect more than that is a bit silly.

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designed freedom
KittyDuckSatire
designed freedom
I think it's sort of sad that people seem to discount the influence and impact of anime on our current culture.

The same way a lot of people discount the influence of Disney.

While I disagree that anime is a good place to learn anatomy, I sort of agree with the tone of your post and your over-arcing point.

Anime has influenced a generation to pick up and start drawing [again]. Disney hasn't done that since they stopped making 2D animation on a regular basis. Comic books haven't done that since they dropped in popularity over a decade ago.


It's best to ignore all of the hate. People will always hate things that are so incredibly popular and in your face.

It doesn't help that otaku are annoying people. (The Japanese don't like otaku either!)


Anime -is- what got a lot of people to draw in the first place. But it does contribute to a glutton of s**t art. But if even 5 percent of the anime drawing population drones evolve into making art, graphic design, something substantial, then it -is- good.

However, in terms of being a legitimate art form, or even being any 'good', or a decent place to learn anything about it, no, not really. That's why so many of the pieces on here, at least 90 percent are just illustrations of a person standing there, or doing a pose. There is no thought of where something goes in a canvas, no concept of visual impact, -none- of the principles of design are used at all.
I never said that anime was a good place to learn anything. I said I disagreed with the OPs point there. wink

You also have to remember that most of the people posting on Gaia or on just about any casual art site have little or no ambition for being artists, have little ambition for creating art beyond making nice pictures of their favorites characters (OC or fan art) or their avatars.

To expect more than that is a bit silly.


Well, I personally started with anime. I started with ******** DBZ xD And I moved onto other art from there. So, I certainly do expect more from people. And I realize its silly.

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If Japonism gets to be considered a movement then so does anime/manga.


Japanism was popular for a while close to the same time as.. I think when Orientalism was getting big,, or maybe it was when everyone was collecting tribal artifacts... eh, anyways, point is this has happened before with the Japanese wood print and watercolour look, it's just history repeating itself.


edit:

In before "Learn to check your facts".

I admit. I'm too lazy for that at this moment.


edit two: Because I feel like addressing this thread piece by piece.

The OP claims that anime is a great place to start and you'll learn about anatomy as you go and even if you screw up it'll still look right because of the style.... well... no... it'll still be wrong. In ANY style it'll still be wrong as you're learning. Style doesn't make it look right if it's wrong.

The same claims could be made for any style. Hell, I could make a case for why learning abstract art and cubism is a great launching point to get into drawing and painting the human figure in a realistic manner going on about how cubism sometimes attempts to flatten out a 3D object to represent all sides of it at once is exellent for learning to understand what you're drawing as a 3D dimensional object with volume that can be built up from a foundation of shapes. I could argue how abstract painting is an exellent practice for learning colour theory and composition and an abstract painting of a person will teach you lots about the body because you'll be forced to observe it and make decisions about where to put the arms and how to deconstruct them and yadda yadda yadda.

It's HIDING behind "oh, that's just the/my/a style" as an EXCUSE for not learning anatomy that is the problem. It's common in anime, possibly the most common because it's what everyone is drawing these days that creates the problems and hinders the artist preventing them from improving when from what they have done it's clear to see that they just have So. Much. Potential. but they get stuck on a style (not everyone, but an unfortunately large amount) and refuse to learn and grow from it.

I'm a strong believer that everyone can draw if they just try. I've seen tons of people who insist that all they can draw is stick figures, but if they have to draw a house or something for a project... you can see that they have an understanding of space and lines and all kinds of stuff, but they don't use it when they sit down and think "Ok, I'm going to do art now.". Versus them sitting down and thinking "Ok, I'm going to do this diagram for science class now". They can do the diagram, maybe not even having to copy it and... it's a really good representation of say... a heart. But if you ask them to draw a heart in Art Class, they do one of these: heart

And then they go on insisting that they can't and never will be able to draw. They get stuck on this idea of when doing art it has to be like this: heart

That's kinda what anime drags a lot of people into. Again, it's not everyone, I know some amazing artists who draw anime, but then they can also go and draw some pretty impressive life drawing, then apply that to their manga drawings, even their chibis.
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