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Kangaruu
I have seen multiple threads stating that the Earth would be a more peaceful and "nice" place if religion never played a part.

This is untrue; religion is what keeps a good amount of the population in line, its why everyone obeys countless laws, rules, and regulations.
Including stupid and nonsensical rules, right? One does NOT need a religion to have morals. Morals are something that everyone develops at some point in their lives, religion or no. Religion is not necessary for humans to be moral people.

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Religious followers thrive to maintain adequate character due to some intangible power that shakes its finger at us from thousands of years ago, saying "do it and i'll ******** kill you".
Terrorism, much? God uses fear to get people to do what they want, which goes against the morals he's trying to "insist."

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Its why many people are not raping and commiting genocide every day, its a fear of a mythical badass who is posed and ready to beat your head in. I do realize that many people are'nt religious, and athiests tend to be peaceful people anyway...
Uh-huh. You know how many genocides have been religious? Let's see, the Holocaust, the Inquisitions, Rwanda, the Salem Witch Trials were religious in a sense, Darfur as well, for what I understand of it, I think Uganda is too... How many genocides have been started by atheists for religion? None that I can think of.

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And yes, many wars have been fought and many people have died due to religion; but many more would suffer without its presence.
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I'm not saying that "God" and popular religion are true (personally i dont), but i'm saying that the earth would not be a pefect world without religion.
Yeah... sure. You think that if you want.
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Kangaruu
I have seen multiple threads stating that the Earth would be a more peaceful and "nice" place if religion never played a part.

This is untrue; religion is what keeps a good amount of the population in line, its why everyone obeys countless laws, rules, and regulations.
Including stupid and nonsensical rules, right? One does NOT need a religion to have morals. Morals are something that everyone develops at some point in their lives, religion or no. Religion is not necessary for humans to be moral people.

Quote:
Religious followers thrive to maintain adequate character due to some intangible power that shakes its finger at us from thousands of years ago, saying "do it and i'll ******** kill you".
Terrorism, much? God uses fear to get people to do what they want, which goes against the morals he's trying to "insist."

Quote:
Its why many people are not raping and commiting genocide every day, its a fear of a mythical badass who is posed and ready to beat your head in. I do realize that many people are'nt religious, and athiests tend to be peaceful people anyway...
Uh-huh. You know how many genocides have been religious? Let's see, the Holocaust, the Inquisitions, Rwanda, the Salem Witch Trials were religious in a sense, Darfur as well, for what I understand of it, I think Uganda is too... How many genocides have been started by atheists for religion? None that I can think of.

The Holocaust wasn't a religious genocide- it was a wide spread eugenics program. It was genocide, but it was really more a race-based genocide. Jews were treated as a race, not a religion- and it wasn't from my understanding of it religious motivated.
I'll give you the inquisition as being close to a genocide tough not really quite fitting the definition.
The Salem Witch Hysteria had a total body count of 20 something people, that's not a genocide.
Darfur is about land use with other elements as a proxy and excuse to kill eachother

And you could take the major communist states as examples of atheist genocide-scale killings.
Uh, no. If that were true, all atheists would be horrible criminals.

religion is not synonymous with morality.
mitoguard
The Holocaust wasn't a religious genocide- it was a wide spread eugenics program. It was genocide, but it was really more a race-based genocide. Jews were treated as a race, not a religion- and it wasn't from my understanding of it religious motivated.


It was very much religious based. Hitler wrote that he believed he was doing god's work by ridding the world of jews and other types he considered wrong, and the SS all wore beltbuckles with Gott in Himmel (IIRC) on them.

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I'll give you the inquisition as being close to a genocide tough not really quite fitting the definition.


The Inquisition is more about torture than death- and torture of the sort the employed is just as bad- but the whole motivation was entirely religious, making it a good example of religion gone bad, just like the various crusades.

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The Salem Witch Hysteria had a total body count of 20 something people, that's not a genocide.


Salem had a body count under 100, but it was hardly the biggest or meanest of the witch hysterias out there. Merely the most ludicrous, as it was really about a community going utterly paranoid/ backstabbing and accusing each other. Other witch hunts throughout time have a much higher total body count.
Interestingly enough, Joan of Arc, who claimed she was doing the will of the same god that protestants and catholics both worship, was burned at the stake for being a witch. Of course, the catholics and the protestants have never had problems stabbing each other, using religion as a veil, if not their outright motivation.

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And you could take the major communist states as examples of atheist genocide-scale killings.


No. No you could not. Because those killings were done in the name of the cult of personality of the state, and not motivated by a lack of belief. You're really hard pressed to find someone killing in the name of a lack of belief or tenents. I'm sure you could find one, but he or she'd be literally an order of magnitude harder to find than the religious types willing to kill in the name of religion.
Ryushikaze
mitoguard
The Holocaust wasn't a religious genocide- it was a wide spread eugenics program. It was genocide, but it was really more a race-based genocide. Jews were treated as a race, not a religion- and it wasn't from my understanding of it religious motivated.


It was very much religious based. Hitler wrote that he believed he was doing god's work by ridding the world of jews and other types he considered wrong, and the SS all wore beltbuckles with Gott in Himmel (IIRC) on them.

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I'll give you the inquisition as being close to a genocide tough not really quite fitting the definition.


The Inquisition is more about torture than death- and torture of the sort the employed is just as bad- but the whole motivation was entirely religious, making it a good example of religion gone bad, just like the various crusades.

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The Salem Witch Hysteria had a total body count of 20 something people, that's not a genocide.


Salem had a body count under 100, but it was hardly the biggest or meanest of the witch hysterias out there. Merely the most ludicrous, as it was really about a community going utterly paranoid/ backstabbing and accusing each other. Other witch hunts throughout time have a much higher total body count.
Interestingly enough, Joan of Arc, who claimed she was doing the will of the same god that protestants and catholics both worship, was burned at the stake for being a witch. Of course, the catholics and the protestants have never had problems stabbing each other, using religion as a veil, if not their outright motivation.

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And you could take the major communist states as examples of atheist genocide-scale killings.


No. No you could not. Because those killings were done in the name of the cult of personality of the state, and not motivated by a lack of belief.
No, but there was a massive push to establish them as atheist states and (though doable in China sans genocide since the framework of a not-strictly-theistic religion was already in place, the USSR had a bit more work to do to get there. Granted it wasn't equally bad for all religions- but taking the Russian Orthodox church and its followers gives evidence of, at the very least, near-genocide and I then reason that the remaining religious groups who happened to be slightly more or less luck added on would make it genocide equivalent. I'm not talking about political dissenters, though plenty of them were killed as well.)
Religion is beneficial for those who need a God figure and a straight set of rules to function properly in society. It also encourages all forms of art.

(And then we have fanaticism and destroying art (Henry VIII) and all kinds of stuff that makes me wonder if it's worth it.)
Kangaruu
I have seen multiple threads stating that the Earth would be a more peaceful and "nice" place if religion never played a part.

This is untrue; religion is what keeps a good amount of the population in line, its why everyone obeys countless laws, rules, and regulations. Religious followers thrive to maintain adequate character due to some intangible power that shakes its finger at us from thousands of years ago, saying "do it and i'll ******** kill you".

Its why many people are not raping and commiting genocide every day, its a fear of a mythical badass who is posed and ready to beat your head in. I do realize that many people are'nt religious, and athiests tend to be peaceful people anyway...

And yes, many wars have been fought and many people have died due to religion; but many more would suffer without its presence.

I'm not saying that "God" and popular religion are true (personally i dont), but i'm saying that the earth would not be a pefect world without religion.


Are you religious? Yes or no? If you are you're biased and therefore your opinion is essentially meaningless.
Ixlovexjeni
Kangaruu
I have seen multiple threads stating that the Earth would be a more peaceful and "nice" place if religion never played a part.

This is untrue; religion is what keeps a good amount of the population in line, its why everyone obeys countless laws, rules, and regulations. Religious followers thrive to maintain adequate character due to some intangible power that shakes its finger at us from thousands of years ago, saying "do it and i'll ******** kill you".

Its why many people are not raping and commiting genocide every day, its a fear of a mythical badass who is posed and ready to beat your head in. I do realize that many people are'nt religious, and athiests tend to be peaceful people anyway...

And yes, many wars have been fought and many people have died due to religion; but many more would suffer without its presence.

I'm not saying that "God" and popular religion are true (personally i dont), but i'm saying that the earth would not be a pefect world without religion.


Are you religious? Yes or no? If you are you're biased and therefore your opinion is essentially meaningless.


Apparently your not human, because to be human is to be subjective, and to be subjective is to be biased.

Therefore your opinion is essentially meaningless.
Ixlovexjeni
Kangaruu
I have seen multiple threads stating that the Earth would be a more peaceful and "nice" place if religion never played a part.

This is untrue; religion is what keeps a good amount of the population in line, its why everyone obeys countless laws, rules, and regulations. Religious followers thrive to maintain adequate character due to some intangible power that shakes its finger at us from thousands of years ago, saying "do it and i'll ******** kill you".

Its why many people are not raping and commiting genocide every day, its a fear of a mythical badass who is posed and ready to beat your head in. I do realize that many people are'nt religious, and athiests tend to be peaceful people anyway...

And yes, many wars have been fought and many people have died due to religion; but many more would suffer without its presence.

I'm not saying that "God" and popular religion are true (personally i dont), but i'm saying that the earth would not be a pefect world without religion.


Are you religious? Yes or no? If you are you're biased and therefore your opinion is essentially meaningless.

Whereas...were she not religious you couldn't just as easily claim he was biased in the other direction?

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If there were no religion, I would still be scared of people.

All religion does is acknowledge the spiritual realm, at its root. It doesn't 'make' people anything. People can be plenty psychotic without it.

At least with religion you have a hope of going to heaven after dealing with the psychotics..
I don't break the law because some "god" is telling me not to. I know whats right and wrong. I try my best to be a good person and help people because its a good thing to do. sweatdrop
Religion is a nice little form of social control, I agree with you on that. I'm an atheist and I think religion is a not necessarily a bad thing, nor really a great thing. Morality can most certainly exist without religion. However, I believe that the need for religion to establish some form of control over the people is decreasing. More people are challenging religion and what role it plays in our daily lives. Part of that can be thanks to science, however science can not explain all. We don't need religion to keep people from going crazy because of the unknown anymore.

Religion has also cost a lot of lives too. Holy wars, salem witch trials and throughout the Crusades, and many other times. I don't think we can really tell if the world would be better off or not without religion.
Were those instances caused by religion or religious people?
TheElectricEye
I don't think we can really tell if the world would be better off or not without religion.


To some extent I agree with you.

Humans base a lot of their decisions (socially and politically speaking) on the mistakes we have made in the past. The problem is, people aren't learning from this one. They continue to make the same mistake because religion appears constructive and beneficial.

If genocides and inquisitions appeared to be a good thing, they would still be in practice.

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