((I would first like to state that this has been one of the more interesting debates I've had in a while.
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HKBlack
Zoe Alleyne
Fair enough, but many of the teachers remember them as troublemakers as well. Of course, they had a tendency of putting them in a good light but I think it's because James was something of a hero. Maybe I'm just biased because I know how it feels to be picked on by the "cool" kids. The teachers used to get mad at ME because I was "tattle-taling" on them. So of course I'd naturally dislike the Marauders for picking on Snape. And I think Snape is the only person who would tell it like it is. Everyone else was being nice because James was dead.
Of course, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your opinion completely--but I would like to make a note that Severus Snape was a very cynical b*****d and probably returned the Marauders antics in kind.
I certainly don't doubt that. Why else would Snape create the Sectumsempra spell if not to exact some revenge on the Marauders? But that's just it, isn't it? Some kids get pushed into doing drastic things. I hate to cite this as an example (simply because it's a loose example at best), but in the case of the Columbine kids, they got pushed into doing something terrible because of bullying. Of course, there were a number of other influences, but let's not get into that. My point is that Snape, being bullied for whatever period of time, probably wanted revenge so badly, he was willing to join up with the Death Eaters to prove... something. :S
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Also, they referred to the Marauders as "trouble-makers" as Fred and George are referred to--Practical Jokers, as seen in the Marauders Map.
For this point, I agree. However, perhaps, just
maybe the teachers were telling Harry about the Marauders in a good light because it was Harry, and the last thing you want to do is tell a kid "Your dead father was an A-hole." But then again, this is my assumption. Not fact.
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Finally on this part, Snape did not "tell it like it is" as it were--rather Harry was being curious.
Yes, for that particular scene, I agree, Harry found out about the Marauders all on his own. However, Snape's been telling Harry about them for years before that moment. Granted, his opinion of them was skewed by his own experiences, but he often accused Harry of being as "arrogant as his father" and something about strutting (I can't remember if Snape only said that in the movies or not and I usual don't count the movies as canon).
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Again, I'm probably being biased here, but I think it'd be unfair of them to take their frustrations with exams out on Snape just because he was there.
Now, I'm not saying they were taking out their frustrations on Snape. I'm saying they were bored out of their minds after a very boring (and pretty much easy) exam after a week of exams, and lo-and-behold, the boy they can't stand sitting in plain sight with his defences down. Highschool boy mindset here--What are you going to do? Just let him be after a week of brain killing exams? Of course not, there has to be some excitement in your life! Let's have a bit of fun, eh?
Still, I don't see why they took it out on Snape. He seemed to be their favourite victim.
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Well I can tell you honestly that I was never arrogant. I was meek and introverted throughout high school. I kept to myself because anytime I became outspoken, someone would come along and shoot me down, make me feel small and stupid. And it was people like James and his friends. The jocks, the pretty people, the tag-alongs (like Pettigrew). The only person among the Marauders I'd probably get along with is Remus, but it's not like he ever did much to stop James and Sirius.
Saying that you've never been arrogant is a bit arrogant. Everybody--no matter how meek or introverted they are or were, has their arrogant moments. It's human nature.
Hmm... I'm not sure how to reply to that.
sweatdrop I can't really argue about human nature and psychology, since I'm not nearly qualified. :3
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I'm assuming you are female. Now, having said this, I implore you to think of the males in your highschool. Even if they were one of the "freaks, geeks" or whatever else--for the most part they were a bit high on the arrogant levels because that is the mind set of the age. Now, I am not saying all men act like this, that'd be stupid of me. Extremely stupid. But on the whole that is how teenage boys act, because most teenagers follow Society, and Society says that's how teenage boys are supposed to act.
That is true! I don't disagree! It's just one of those things I don't like about society. There are certain things in life I don't like: bad drivers, greedy rich gluttons, and bullies. It's mainly because I understand why they do the things they do, but I don't understand at the same time and it drives me nuts!
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Also, you failed to mention the "one point or another" part of that phrase, which further strengthens my point. I did not say all the time, I did not say "nearly always" I said "at one point or another" because we all have those moments were we are proud of what we have accomplished/achieved and become a bit arrogant when flaunting it--wheter we realize it or not.
I apologize. I must've missed that line and you're right, it does strengthen your arguement somewhat. I admit that when I do something I'm proud of, I want to show it off. I'm not sure if that counts as arrogance. I think it's more just pride. It depends on how you do it, I suppose. For example, if I made a pretty dress, I'd wear it to every special event I could. If people asked me about it, I'd tell them I made it. However, in my opinion, arrogance is when I'd wear the dress to any event, formal or not, and I wouldn't wait for people to ask about the dress, I'd simply tell them and flaunt it and make sure everyone knew I was the one who made it.
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We all are entitled to our opinions, but I would like to try and make you see past this "Well they're jerks because in one scene (one scene!) they acted like the kids at school used to act, and I hate that!" Because yes, that is very very biased, and you're missing out on the oppourtunity to explore four very great and wonderfully real characters.
See, that's just it. We don't know very much about these characters, except second-hand hearsay from biased sources. Snape would tell you they're jerks. Sirius would tell you they were awesome. The teachers would tell you they were harmless pranksters. But we never really got to see them in their prime. It's a damn shame Rowling has no intention of writing about them in a prequel series, but I think only then would my opinion of them change. Unfortunately, fanfics just don't cut it for me.
biggrin I tried reading a few, but it just didn't feel the same.
Anyway, it's been fun! Feel free to continue this discussion. I'm all ears!
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