[ Poll ] ¤ The Talking Dojo ¤ A Martial Artist Hang Out

Do you prefer watching or joining in Martial Arts?

Im in the action babeh!		63.5%	[ 106 ]
Im on the couch watching		18.0%	[ 30 ]
Im a lover not a fighter... so Neither		18.6%	[ 31 ]

Total Votes: 167

[hallgod33]

Keyboard Warrior

You're funny. First off, Oyama was not JUST karate. He had rankings in many martial arts, including boxing, kung fu, and Judo. He was quite fast and quite powerful(his nickname was "The Godhand) and actually FOUGHT other people(and bulls) of ALL different styles. Lee has no verified fights...only anecdotal stories of ones. I would pick Oyama over Lee any time in an all out brawl.

Against Helio? Depends on how good Lee's wrestling skills were(I am aware that he tried incorporating wrestling in his own personal style)....if his take-down defense was solid, MAYBE Lee would get an upper-hand...but if Helio were to successfully pull guard on him, its doneskies.

The one inch punch ain't s**t...his demo had the guinea pig in such an unbalanced stance that a 5 year old coulda knocked him back.

I just don't understand how anyone could regard Lee as such a supreme fighter when his skills have never really been tested. I mean, I respect him for bringing martial arts to western eyes...but people regard him as some god of fighting....when there is no evidence to prove such. At least Helio and Oyama had dozens of verified fights/challenge matches...with more witnesses than just his acquaintances.

BTW...I was obviously trolling with the whole Gwailo Do Jitsu Te b.s....so yuh.

Ok, first off, sorry for the "******** U" stuff. I kinda thought you were serious, cuz I actually know people that believe that stuff.
And I'm fairly versed in Oyama, but I don't know it all. I just know his affiliation with Kyokushin, and I guess the rest wasn't mentioned. Still, Bruce Lee is kickass.
And against Helio, like I said, the fight wouldn't reach the ground. I know a great deal of takedowns, and most of them are countered by a swift knee to the face, if you're coming in from kicking/striking range to grappling range. Bruce Lee happens to be one of the fastest martial artists to ever have lived. Bruce Lee personally preferred kicking range over the other four, so Helio wouldn't be able to pull a takedown, as skilled as he is.

And the reason I hold Bruce Lee in such high regard is that my Sifu's sifu trained with Bruce Lee. Google "Dan Inosanto" and see how he's related to Bruce Lee in terms of training. If Bruce Lee kicked Inosanto's a**, then he was AMAZING.
Also, Helio's cousin, one of the Machado brothers, trained with my Sifu, and he said that, yes, he believes that Bruce Lee would have beaten his cousin, Helio. So that kinda proves that Bruce would have won.

Anyways, even if he wouldn't have, who would actually challenge the father of martial arts? Because that essentially what he is now. Without him, martial arts would have died.

[Keyboard Warrior]

baka_boy1221

Keyboard Warrior

hallgod33

Against Gracie, Bruce Lee wouldn't allow the fight to be taken to the ground, and if it did, have you ever heard of his one-inch punch?

Just reread this part. You do realize that to do a proper one inch punch you need proper hip movement(not just arm and shoulders)...which is near impossible when you're on your back(seeing as how the GROUND limits the movement of your hips when it comes to striking)....even if Lee was in Gracie's guard, he'd have a better chance of regular ol' ground and pound than pulling off a one inch punch.

Like Gracie said once, "Get in the ring with a black belt, hit him once, he a brown belt. Hit him again and he a purple belt."

And realize this is a Gracie quote.

How does that relate to the one inch punch on the ground?

[Keyboard Warrior]

hallgod33

Keyboard Warrior

You're funny. First off, Oyama was not JUST karate. He had rankings in many martial arts, including boxing, kung fu, and Judo. He was quite fast and quite powerful(his nickname was "The Godhand) and actually FOUGHT other people(and bulls) of ALL different styles. Lee has no verified fights...only anecdotal stories of ones. I would pick Oyama over Lee any time in an all out brawl.

Against Helio? Depends on how good Lee's wrestling skills were(I am aware that he tried incorporating wrestling in his own personal style)....if his take-down defense was solid, MAYBE Lee would get an upper-hand...but if Helio were to successfully pull guard on him, its doneskies.

The one inch punch ain't s**t...his demo had the guinea pig in such an unbalanced stance that a 5 year old coulda knocked him back.

I just don't understand how anyone could regard Lee as such a supreme fighter when his skills have never really been tested. I mean, I respect him for bringing martial arts to western eyes...but people regard him as some god of fighting....when there is no evidence to prove such. At least Helio and Oyama had dozens of verified fights/challenge matches...with more witnesses than just his acquaintances.

BTW...I was obviously trolling with the whole Gwailo Do Jitsu Te b.s....so yuh.

Ok, first off, sorry for the "******** U" stuff. I kinda thought you were serious, cuz I actually know people that believe that stuff.
And I'm fairly versed in Oyama, but I don't know it all. I just know his affiliation with Kyokushin, and I guess the rest wasn't mentioned. Still, Bruce Lee is kickass.
And against Helio, like I said, the fight wouldn't reach the ground. I know a great deal of takedowns, and most of them are countered by a swift knee to the face, if you're coming in from kicking/striking range to grappling range. Bruce Lee happens to be one of the fastest martial artists to ever have lived. Bruce Lee personally preferred kicking range over the other four, so Helio wouldn't be able to pull a takedown, as skilled as he is.

And the reason I hold Bruce Lee in such high regard is that my Sifu's sifu trained with Bruce Lee. Google "Dan Inosanto" and see how he's related to Bruce Lee in terms of training. If Bruce Lee kicked Inosanto's a**, then he was AMAZING.
Also, Helio's cousin, one of the Machado brothers, trained with my Sifu, and he said that, yes, he believes that Bruce Lee would have beaten his cousin, Helio. So that kinda proves that Bruce would have won.

Anyways, even if he wouldn't have, who would actually challenge the father of martial arts? Because that essentially what he is now. Without him, martial arts would have died.

The martial arts world would have flourished fine and dandy without Bruce Lee....I mean, its not like muay Thai would've just STOPPED being Thailand's national sport if Lee hadn't been around...Brazilian Jujitsu would've spread like a wild fire at the same rate without Lee...Kyokushinkai was ALREADY becoming quite big through-out the world even before Lee made his rise to fame. And why WOULDN'T these men have challenged Lee to a match if they had the chance? They were known to take on all fighters that would have them...so it'd be logical to think that they'd take up a Bruce Lee challenge at any time.


Now, assuming Lee and Gracie were fighting in an open field with absolutely no barriers within a hundred mile radius(unrealistic much?) MAYBE he could keep Helio at bay within the kicking range...but if Lee was backed against a wall, a corner, or any sort of barrier that would obstruct his ability to keep the fight at such a range, it would be quite easy for Helio to close the distance, clinch, and either trip Lee or pull guard on Lee...and unless Lee had prior training(as well as high proficiency) in submission wrestling/jujitsu, Helio would slap on an armbar, triangle choke, shoulder lock, kneebar, ankle lock, take his back(which is the worst spot your opponent could be...with you on THEIR back..because it leaves you open for chokes, strikes, and so on and so forth) etc....with relative ease. Its also a lot easier to nullify the kicking range than you might think....regardless of how fast the opponent is(and I highly doubt Lee was the fastest martial artist in the world....granted he was quite fast)....the Gracie family(as well as other submission grappling experts) have shown this to be true, time and time again.

Now I will say one thing....Lee was quite gifted. If he had a personal training regiment that equaled that of modern mixed martial arts fighters, he surely could've contended with the best of them....but to say that he was, without a doubt, the best martial artist/fighter in the world in his time when there were plenty of innovative, and generally HARDER trained individuals(i.e. Oyama, who was trained in multiple arts, conditioned his body immensely, and had the power to break river rocks with his bare hands...and of course Thai fighters, period)around, is just delusional and pure, blind faith.

[Trop.exe]

Wow, Bruce Lee is not the father of martial arts. stare

[hallgod33]

Keyboard Warrior

hallgod33

Keyboard Warrior

You're funny. First off, Oyama was not JUST karate. He had rankings in many martial arts, including boxing, kung fu, and Judo. He was quite fast and quite powerful(his nickname was "The Godhand) and actually FOUGHT other people(and bulls) of ALL different styles. Lee has no verified fights...only anecdotal stories of ones. I would pick Oyama over Lee any time in an all out brawl.

Against Helio? Depends on how good Lee's wrestling skills were(I am aware that he tried incorporating wrestling in his own personal style)....if his take-down defense was solid, MAYBE Lee would get an upper-hand...but if Helio were to successfully pull guard on him, its doneskies.

The one inch punch ain't s**t...his demo had the guinea pig in such an unbalanced stance that a 5 year old coulda knocked him back.

I just don't understand how anyone could regard Lee as such a supreme fighter when his skills have never really been tested. I mean, I respect him for bringing martial arts to western eyes...but people regard him as some god of fighting....when there is no evidence to prove such. At least Helio and Oyama had dozens of verified fights/challenge matches...with more witnesses than just his acquaintances.

BTW...I was obviously trolling with the whole Gwailo Do Jitsu Te b.s....so yuh.

Ok, first off, sorry for the "******** U" stuff. I kinda thought you were serious, cuz I actually know people that believe that stuff.
And I'm fairly versed in Oyama, but I don't know it all. I just know his affiliation with Kyokushin, and I guess the rest wasn't mentioned. Still, Bruce Lee is kickass.
And against Helio, like I said, the fight wouldn't reach the ground. I know a great deal of takedowns, and most of them are countered by a swift knee to the face, if you're coming in from kicking/striking range to grappling range. Bruce Lee happens to be one of the fastest martial artists to ever have lived. Bruce Lee personally preferred kicking range over the other four, so Helio wouldn't be able to pull a takedown, as skilled as he is.

And the reason I hold Bruce Lee in such high regard is that my Sifu's sifu trained with Bruce Lee. Google "Dan Inosanto" and see how he's related to Bruce Lee in terms of training. If Bruce Lee kicked Inosanto's a**, then he was AMAZING.
Also, Helio's cousin, one of the Machado brothers, trained with my Sifu, and he said that, yes, he believes that Bruce Lee would have beaten his cousin, Helio. So that kinda proves that Bruce would have won.

Anyways, even if he wouldn't have, who would actually challenge the father of martial arts? Because that essentially what he is now. Without him, martial arts would have died.

The martial arts world would have flourished fine and dandy without Bruce Lee....I mean, its not like muay Thai would've just STOPPED being Thailand's national sport if Lee hadn't been around...Brazilian Jujitsu would've spread like a wild fire at the same rate without Lee...Kyokushinkai was ALREADY becoming quite big through-out the world even before Lee made his rise to fame. And why WOULDN'T these men have challenged Lee to a match if they had the chance? They were known to take on all fighters that would have them...so it'd be logical to think that they'd take up a Bruce Lee challenge at any time.


Now, assuming Lee and Gracie were fighting in an open field with absolutely no barriers within a hundred mile radius(unrealistic much?) MAYBE he could keep Helio at bay within the kicking range...but if Lee was backed against a wall, a corner, or any sort of barrier that would obstruct his ability to keep the fight at such a range, it would be quite easy for Helio to close the distance, clinch, and either trip Lee or pull guard on Lee...and unless Lee had prior training(as well as high proficiency) in submission wrestling/jujitsu, Helio would slap on an armbar, triangle choke, shoulder lock, kneebar, ankle lock, take his back(which is the worst spot your opponent could be...with you on THEIR back..because it leaves you open for chokes, strikes, and so on and so forth) etc....with relative ease. Its also a lot easier to nullify the kicking range than you might think....regardless of how fast the opponent is(and I highly doubt Lee was the fastest martial artist in the world....granted he was quite fast)....the Gracie family(as well as other submission grappling experts) have shown this to be true, time and time again.

Now I will say one thing....Lee was quite gifted. If he had a personal training regiment that equaled that of modern mixed martial arts fighters, he surely could've contended with the best of them....but to say that he was, without a doubt, the best martial artist/fighter in the world in his time when there were plenty of innovative, and generally HARDER trained individuals(i.e. Oyama, who was trained in multiple arts, conditioned his body immensely, and had the power to break river rocks with his bare hands...and of course Thai fighters, period)around, is just delusional and pure, blind faith.

I see what you're getting at, but I guess I just have to say I don't agree. Everything you say makes sense, I just think that if it came down to it, Bruce Lee would win. Might be what'd happen, might not. He's dead, so we can't test this theory.

And really, I know how hard it is to keep someone off of you when they're trying to get you down, but its not THAT hard. Knees, Thai-ing up, head shots, or just a plain round kick as they go down would work if you got a strike in.
And you have no idea how hard it is to try and condition like Thai fighters. Banana trees SUCK after the 3rd one. I'm not sure I've eaten a banana in like a year, now.

[Keyboard Warrior]

Um, of course I understand how hard it is to do muay Thai conditioning....btw, kicking banana trees is hella old school, even for the Thais. All the top gyms in Thailand use heavy bags and other MODERN equipment.


Also, there are plenty of ways to close the distance without having to shoot for a leg take-down(Judoka should know this)...and you usually don't just take a shot out of no-where, you got to set it up with a feinting punch or kick(which if you watch a lot of old school Royce, he does this).

[mecha okami]

Keyboard Warrior

About as true as a leprachaun giving birth to sasquatch....

Do you seriously have any idea of how fast bruce lee was. I'm telling the truth he would be up before you was down xp


striking speed=less than 5 hundredths of a second
kicking speed=about 8 hundredths of a second
(from standing position)

[mecha okami]

he was the best

(for people who think norris=god... he said bruce lee could beat him)

[Trop.exe]

Bruce Lee was just a creator of a martial arts style and an actor. That's how he's going to be remembered. Norris is just an actor with a TKD black belt.

[Keyboard Warrior]

mecha okami

Keyboard Warrior

About as true as a leprachaun giving birth to sasquatch....

Do you seriously have any idea of how fast bruce lee was. I'm telling the truth he would be up before you was down xp


striking speed=less than 5 hundredths of a second
kicking speed=about 8 hundredths of a second
(from standing position)

Paying attention to current debate, you aren't.

[Keyboard Warrior]

Trop.exe

Bruce Lee was just a creator of a martial arts style and an actor. That's how he's going to be remembered. Norris is just an actor with a TKD black belt.

And a Brazilian Jujitsu blackbelt under the Machados.

[Trop.exe]

Keyboard Warrior

Trop.exe

Bruce Lee was just a creator of a martial arts style and an actor. That's how he's going to be remembered. Norris is just an actor with a TKD black belt.

And a Brazilian Jujitsu blackbelt under the Machados.

He's actually a brown belt.

[SacredDemon17]

Keyboard Warrior

Um, of course I understand how hard it is to do muay Thai conditioning....btw, kicking banana trees is hella old school, even for the Thais. All the top gyms in Thailand use heavy bags and other MODERN equipment.


Also, there are plenty of ways to close the distance without having to shoot for a leg take-down(Judoka should know this)...and you usually don't just take a shot out of no-where, you got to set it up with a feinting punch or kick(which if you watch a lot of old school Royce, he does this).

Oh come on! You know kicking the s**t out of bannana trees is bad a** lol

[Keyboard Warrior]

Trop.exe

Keyboard Warrior

Trop.exe

Bruce Lee was just a creator of a martial arts style and an actor. That's how he's going to be remembered. Norris is just an actor with a TKD black belt.

And a Brazilian Jujitsu blackbelt under the Machados.

He's actually a brown belt.

According to his bio, he's a black belt. Looking for that info gave me a headache, 'cause I just found out that he's a friend to Sean Hannity and subscribes to the so-called theory of Intelligent ******** Chuck.

Ed O'Neil(Al Bundy from Married With Children) is also a BJJ Black belt....dude loves jujitsu.

[Trop.exe]

Keyboard Warrior

Trop.exe

Keyboard Warrior

Trop.exe

Bruce Lee was just a creator of a martial arts style and an actor. That's how he's going to be remembered. Norris is just an actor with a TKD black belt.

And a Brazilian Jujitsu blackbelt under the Machados.

He's actually a brown belt.

According to his bio, he's a black belt. Looking for that info gave me a headache, 'cause I just found out that he's a friend to Sean Hannity and subscribes to the so-called theory of Intelligent ******** Chuck.

Ed O'Neil(Al Bundy from Married With Children) is also a BJJ Black belt....dude loves jujitsu.

My source: Brown Belt