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HypomaniaBallet
Ontological Empiricism
HypomaniaBallet
It's just, if you didn't want to have a child, why have sex?

Maybe, and try to bear with me here because I may be going out on a limb with this one, there is not one sole purpose of sex? And not everyone's reason for having sex is to procreate? Maybe...people have sex because it's healthy to have sexual intercourse, it's fun and enjoyable, and can strengthen a bond between two people. Why does it matter WHY someone has sex? Why is that your business? People are going to have sex, regardless of whether you think their reasoning for doing so is valid or not.

Quote:
It's just irresponsible. You're responsible for your actions.

No. Having a child you cannot afford or take care of is irresponsible. Having a child does not automatically make someone a responsible adult. Accidents happen, and it's up to the party involved to make their call on what the responsible action to take would be.

Quote:
That's why I said the only even slightly reasonable reason for an abortion is rape.

Why? What makes a fetus conceived from rape less worthy to live than a fetus conceived from consensual sex? If shown two ultrasounds, would you be able to determine which was from rape and which was from consensual sex?

What you aren't grasping is the fact that you keep tossing out subjective terminology like "irresponsible" and "reasonable". YOU think that the only REASONABLE reason for an abortion is rape. Good for YOU. However, WE don't have to feel the same.



I read your comments.
I read your profile.
And my conclusion was, "Why the ******** would I even consider arguing with you?"


So I'm not going to.

Translation:
"I have not the slightest idea how to refute any of the above points made."

It's ok. I understand.

Versatile Lunatic

Ontological Empiricism
HypomaniaBallet
Ontological Empiricism
HypomaniaBallet
It's just, if you didn't want to have a child, why have sex?

Maybe, and try to bear with me here because I may be going out on a limb with this one, there is not one sole purpose of sex? And not everyone's reason for having sex is to procreate? Maybe...people have sex because it's healthy to have sexual intercourse, it's fun and enjoyable, and can strengthen a bond between two people. Why does it matter WHY someone has sex? Why is that your business? People are going to have sex, regardless of whether you think their reasoning for doing so is valid or not.

Quote:
It's just irresponsible. You're responsible for your actions.

No. Having a child you cannot afford or take care of is irresponsible. Having a child does not automatically make someone a responsible adult. Accidents happen, and it's up to the party involved to make their call on what the responsible action to take would be.

Quote:
That's why I said the only even slightly reasonable reason for an abortion is rape.

Why? What makes a fetus conceived from rape less worthy to live than a fetus conceived from consensual sex? If shown two ultrasounds, would you be able to determine which was from rape and which was from consensual sex?

What you aren't grasping is the fact that you keep tossing out subjective terminology like "irresponsible" and "reasonable". YOU think that the only REASONABLE reason for an abortion is rape. Good for YOU. However, WE don't have to feel the same.



I read your comments.
I read your profile.
And my conclusion was, "Why the ******** would I even consider arguing with you?"


So I'm not going to.

Translation:
"I have not the slightest idea how to refute any of the above points made."

It's ok. I understand.


That's exactly it. Just submitting my opinion for the forums to see.

Girl-Crazy Bloodsucker

I never want kids. So....

Would you abort Do you think someone should abort a child if....

you knew for certain it was going to be run over by a car before the age of 13 (18?)

Eh, not really. You could still spend some time with the child before it dies and make the best of it.

you knew it was going to have autism

I think they should. I've heard a shitload of horror stories of parents keeping their disabled children, and later regretting it, and finding themselfs unable to love their children back.
Dosen't sound much fun.


if the father left and doesn't give child care

Eh, maybe. I'm on the fence in this one.

if it were the result of a rape

A thousand times yes. Anybody who forces the woman to go thur a pregancy that she never wanted in the first place, forceing her to be remnded and tramtized for 9 painful months, deserves every little thing coming to their dirty, selfish litttle soul in the pits of hell.

Girl-Crazy Bloodsucker

HypomaniaBallet
It's just, if you didn't want to have a child, why have sex? It's just irresponsible. You're responsible for your actions.

That's why I said the only even slightly reasonable reason for an abortion is rape.


Ya know, the main purpose of sex isn't to have children. That's why Birth Control was invented.
And I don't know about you, but forcing child into an poor, abused envioment where it will likey suffer for most of it's life, is a lot more irrersponblie and selfish then slimply aborting the fetus when it is at a stage where it can't yet feel.

-justgivinginmytwocents

Versatile Lunatic

I Shall Give You NoMercy
HypomaniaBallet
It's just, if you didn't want to have a child, why have sex? It's just irresponsible. You're responsible for your actions.

That's why I said the only even slightly reasonable reason for an abortion is rape.


Ya know, the main purpose of sex isn't to have children. That's why Birth Control was invented.
And I don't know about you, but forcing child into an poor, abused envioment where it will likey suffer for most of it's life, is a lot more irrersponblie and selfish then slimply aborting the fetus when it is at a stage where it can't yet feel.

-justgivinginmytwocents


I guess I should have put "unprotected" somewhere in there.
sweatdrop
If you were to... accidentally get pregnant, I think that aborting the child before it's, well, a child would be a better choice.
That's what I meant to say.
The thing that I meant by "irresponsible" was that if you knew you didn't want a baby, and you were planning to treat it badly as a child, why have unprrtected sex, and if you somehow mess up with protected sex, why not abort it?

I guess what I meant to say was if you don't a give a s**t about what happens to the child after it's born, or you can't afford to take care of it, it what you do *should* be your responsibility.

blarg none of that made sense and it was also extremely redundant sweatdrop

Wheezing Gekko

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"Would you abort a child if
you knew for certain it was going to be run over by a car before the age of 13 (18?)
you knew it was going to have autism
a very severe case of autism
if the father left and doesn't give child care
if it were the result of a rape
if you didn't have enough money."


How would I even know that my child would get run over?
Thats not a valid reason to abort a child.

as for the next reasons, most likely.

To me, before you consider keeping/aborting a child... think about...

1. Can you support the child?
2. Can you provide the child its basic needs and necessities?
3. Can you have an emotional attachment to the child?
4. Will you be able to support your self and keep your self happy?
5. Will you be able to perform your parental duties for this child?


if you had a doubt or uncertainty with any of your answers with those questions.

Abort the child.
Its the woman's choice. there, end of convo. stare

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Hrothgar_Odinson
Its the woman's choice. there, end of convo. stare


This. While it's polite to ask for the opinion of the father, ultimately, it's her choice.
.....You know, I really don't see why people are even arguing about this.

How would you like it if a group of people you don't even know decided the fate of your children?

Personally, I find the idea of an 80 year old religious man in a retirement home telling a 16 year old girl that she HAS to give birth to a baby simply because god says it's right, disgusting.

I say, feel free to voice your opinion, but keep in mind that it is nothing more than an opinion.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE THE FATE OF YOUR CHILDREN!!!

This crap should not even be part of our legal system, the same thing for gay marriage.

Stay out of other people's lives! Otherwise, you are worse than the cause you are fighting against.

That child is yours! Protect it in any way you deem right! There is no worse feeling for a parent than knowing they can't ensure their children's future.

I' am not saying that it is alright for parents to up and kill their kids. What I' am saying is, if they could not do anything to keep them safe from any kind of horror, then they need to have choices.

YOU are Mother. Ask yourself: "How far am I willing to go to protect my child?"
My opinion irregardless of any of the situations stated is that abortion should be illegal. If you murder someone you go to jail because murder is illegal. Abortion is murder therefore should be illegal everything should have a chance to live and if you can't financially support the child if it wasnt rape you should have kept your legs closed if you sleep with someone without protection you have to suffer through the consequence of that action not matter what the consequence may be. If you really don't want the child there are plenty of people who do want children and cant have them and it would a selfless thing to do if you gave said child up for adoption but selfish thing to do if you aborted said child.

Tipsy Explorer

In the end, i think abortion is a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary and no, i'm not talking about rape victims. If the mother and child are going to die because the pregnancy is ectopic or the woman's body is rejecting the child and it's killing her too, then at least saving one life would be better than none at all.
As far as the rape victim goes, she's already going to be scarred for life. It's not something that is going to heal. You may get better about living with the fact that it happened over time but you'll never truly get over it. It will haunt you in the back of your mind for the rest of your days. A pregnant woman knows that a fetus is still a life, whether she wants to admit it or not. If a woman got pregnant because of rape and got an abortion, then she would have to live with not only the memory of the rape but the innocent life she ended. So would it be worth going through nine months of turmoil and childbirth because of a horrible man who hurt her, to give the child up for adoption and let herself feel in the end, despite what has happened, that she was able to do something good? I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

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LinyBeany
In the end, i think abortion is a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary and no, i'm not talking about rape victims. If the mother and child are going to die because the pregnancy is ectopic or the woman's body is rejecting the child and it's killing her too, then at least saving one life would be better than none at all.

Those are deemed "medically necessary" and is covered by most insurances including Medicaid.
Quote:
As far as the rape victim goes, she's already going to be scarred for life. It's not something that is going to heal. You may get better about living with the fact that it happened over time but you'll never truly get over it. It will haunt you in the back of your mind for the rest of your days. A pregnant woman knows that a fetus is still a life, whether she wants to admit it or not. If a woman got pregnant because of rape and got an abortion, then she would have to live with not only the memory of the rape but the innocent life she ended. So would it be worth going through nine months of turmoil and childbirth because of a horrible man who hurt her, to give the child up for adoption and let herself feel in the end, despite what has happened, that she was able to do something good? I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

So you're saying that four years ago, I - a straight-A student with high hopes for college - should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term even though I don't know who the father is? I should have been forced to give birth to a child that I couldn't try to take care of, much less love? How is that remotely moral or just? Thankfully no child resulted from my rape, but I would at least have the option to terminate the pregnancy if it had happened. You also keep making the "life" argument. This has no real place here because courts and medical professionals have agreed countless times that a fetus isn't a person. Why are we having this debate still? Roe v. Wade happened in 1973, so the issue should be nonexistent at this point.

Tipsy Explorer

slytheringirl_92
LinyBeany
In the end, i think abortion is a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary and no, i'm not talking about rape victims. If the mother and child are going to die because the pregnancy is ectopic or the woman's body is rejecting the child and it's killing her too, then at least saving one life would be better than none at all.

Those are deemed "medically necessary" and is covered by most insurances including Medicaid.
Quote:
As far as the rape victim goes, she's already going to be scarred for life. It's not something that is going to heal. You may get better about living with the fact that it happened over time but you'll never truly get over it. It will haunt you in the back of your mind for the rest of your days. A pregnant woman knows that a fetus is still a life, whether she wants to admit it or not. If a woman got pregnant because of rape and got an abortion, then she would have to live with not only the memory of the rape but the innocent life she ended. So would it be worth going through nine months of turmoil and childbirth because of a horrible man who hurt her, to give the child up for adoption and let herself feel in the end, despite what has happened, that she was able to do something good? I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

So you're saying that four years ago, I - a straight-A student with high hopes for college - should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term even though I don't know who the father is? I should have been forced to give birth to a child that I couldn't try to take care of, much less love? How is that remotely moral or just? Thankfully no child resulted from my rape, but I would at least have the option to terminate the pregnancy if it had happened. You also keep making the "life" argument. This has no real place here because courts and medical professionals have agreed countless times that a fetus isn't a person. Why are we having this debate still? Roe v. Wade happened in 1973, so the issue should be nonexistent at this point.


Of course they're "Medically necessary." There's no way, as of right now, to survive such a pregnancy. Hence, why I said "Sometimes they're necessary." With rape victims, they have a choice. However, in the past when I've said necessary, some people automatically jump to rape victims because they think it is necessary when it's actually a choice.

When did I say "A woman should be forced to carry an unborn child that has resulted from rape?" I said it's up to you to figure out which one would have actually been the most traumatizing for you. Hell, I ENDED my statement like this:
LinyBeany
I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

I'm not for FORCING anyone to do anything. I'm not a very morally bound person, so I personally don't really care about what other people do. Even if it is outlawed you could still abort your child. It's not exactly hard in the early trimester. I'm just stating that just because you abort a child that is a result of rape, that it doesn't necessarily make your life any easier.

And just so you know, being pregnant does not stop your chances of going to college. Maybe they might postpone them but not stop them. I have a two year old right now. It hasn't stopped me from going to college or having a career. In fact, most of her life I was in the U.S. Army. Now, I'm getting my nursing degree and am not paying out of pocket either.

And I CAN argue the life point because I have been pregnant. They have argued on whether it would be humane, if it has sentience, and even be a "life." As far as the court systems go, I wouldn't say that they're exactly reliable. After all, a burglar can break into a house, fall on a knife, sue the house owners, and win. Innocent people have also gone to jail. We can't even comprehend what life is. It's all theories right now. They don't have actual answers. They're just stating their thesis. That's what doctors do. If they don't actually have an answer, they give you their best guess, but state it like its fact and ramble off reasons to support what is really a just hypothesis. If they came up and said "Well I don't really know whats going on but I'm guessing it's this," do you thing anyone would ever trust their opinions? Depending on the person, it can be anywhere between difficult to extremely easy to convince someone of something, whether or not you know it to be true.

I can say that when i was raped as a twelve year old child, I would have carried until term if i had found myself pregnant. I wouldn't have to keep the child. I could give them to a family that could survive and support him or her. And YES, as a twelve year old child I did think of things like this. That wasn't even the only time I have been raped and I still stand by my answer. Do I think it's for everyone? No. Some women can't even handle pregnancy physically, let alone mentally. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and choices. For every choice there is a consequence. That's all. So, if you had chosen differently, I would not have judged you. If you looked back and regretted it, that's on you, not me. If you didn't and were perfectly fine with your decision, good for you. We're two completely different people. I stated my opinion for two reasons. Reason number one is so that if someone IS thinking of it, that they know or are reminded that there isn't only one option for them. After that, the choice is theirs to make. Reason number two is, I'm honestly tired of people talking about pregnancy after a rape as if it's the most horrifying thing on the face of the planet and it would ruin the life of a girl. People ruin their own lives, not pregnancy. You don't even have to keep the child. I know plenty of adopted children who are glad their parents gave them up.
LinyBeany
slytheringirl_92
LinyBeany
In the end, i think abortion is a terrible thing. Sometimes it's necessary and no, i'm not talking about rape victims. If the mother and child are going to die because the pregnancy is ectopic or the woman's body is rejecting the child and it's killing her too, then at least saving one life would be better than none at all.

Those are deemed "medically necessary" and is covered by most insurances including Medicaid.
Quote:
As far as the rape victim goes, she's already going to be scarred for life. It's not something that is going to heal. You may get better about living with the fact that it happened over time but you'll never truly get over it. It will haunt you in the back of your mind for the rest of your days. A pregnant woman knows that a fetus is still a life, whether she wants to admit it or not. If a woman got pregnant because of rape and got an abortion, then she would have to live with not only the memory of the rape but the innocent life she ended. So would it be worth going through nine months of turmoil and childbirth because of a horrible man who hurt her, to give the child up for adoption and let herself feel in the end, despite what has happened, that she was able to do something good? I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

So you're saying that four years ago, I - a straight-A student with high hopes for college - should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term even though I don't know who the father is? I should have been forced to give birth to a child that I couldn't try to take care of, much less love? How is that remotely moral or just? Thankfully no child resulted from my rape, but I would at least have the option to terminate the pregnancy if it had happened. You also keep making the "life" argument. This has no real place here because courts and medical professionals have agreed countless times that a fetus isn't a person. Why are we having this debate still? Roe v. Wade happened in 1973, so the issue should be nonexistent at this point.


Of course they're "Medically necessary." There's no way, as of right now, to survive such a pregnancy. Hence, why I said "Sometimes they're necessary." With rape victims, they have a choice. However, in the past when I've said necessary, some people automatically jump to rape victims because they think it is necessary when it's actually a choice.

When did I say "A woman should be forced to carry an unborn child that has resulted from rape?" I said it's up to you to figure out which one would have actually been the most traumatizing for you. Hell, I ENDED my statement like this:
LinyBeany
I guess that's up to the woman and what choices and consequences she's willing to face.

I'm not for FORCING anyone to do anything. I'm not a very morally bound person, so I personally don't really care about what other people do. Even if it is outlawed you could still abort your child. It's not exactly hard in the early trimester. I'm just stating that just because you abort a child that is a result of rape, that it doesn't necessarily make your life any easier.

And just so you know, being pregnant does not stop your chances of going to college. Maybe they might postpone them but not stop them. I have a two year old right now. It hasn't stopped me from going to college or having a career. In fact, most of her life I was in the U.S. Army. Now, I'm getting my nursing degree and am not paying out of pocket either.

And I CAN argue the life point because I have been pregnant. They have argued on whether it would be humane, if it has sentience, and even be a "life." As far as the court systems go, I wouldn't say that they're exactly reliable. After all, a burglar can break into a house, fall on a knife, sue the house owners, and win. Innocent people have also gone to jail. We can't even comprehend what life is. It's all theories right now. They don't have actual answers. They're just stating their thesis. That's what doctors do. If they don't actually have an answer, they give you their best guess, but state it like its fact and ramble off reasons to support what is really a just hypothesis. If they came up and said "Well I don't really know whats going on but I'm guessing it's this," do you thing anyone would ever trust their opinions? Depending on the person, it can be anywhere between difficult to extremely easy to convince someone of something, whether or not you know it to be true.

I can say that when i was raped as a twelve year old child, I would have carried until term if i had found myself pregnant. I wouldn't have to keep the child. I could give them to a family that could survive and support him or her. And YES, as a twelve year old child I did think of things like this. That wasn't even the only time I have been raped and I still stand by my answer. Do I think it's for everyone? No. Some women can't even handle pregnancy physically, let alone mentally. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and choices. For every choice there is a consequence. That's all. So, if you had chosen differently, I would not have judged you. If you looked back and regretted it, that's on you, not me. If you didn't and were perfectly fine with your decision, good for you. We're two completely different people. I stated my opinion for two reasons. Reason number one is so that if someone IS thinking of it, that they know or are reminded that there isn't only one option for them. After that, the choice is theirs to make. Reason number two is, I'm honestly tired of people talking about pregnancy after a rape as if it's the most horrifying thing on the face of the planet and it would ruin the life of a girl. People ruin their own lives, not pregnancy. You don't even have to keep the child. I know plenty of adopted children who are glad their parents gave them up.
cat_neutral *Waffles runs away*
Quote:
And just so you know, being pregnant does not stop your chances of going to college. Maybe they might postpone them but not stop them. I have a two year old right now. It hasn't stopped me from going to college or having a career. In fact, most of her life I was in the U.S. Army. Now, I'm getting my nursing degree and am not paying out of pocket either.


It is good that you were fortunate enough to be able make the best of the situation.
However, some people are not as lucky as you are.
I may be a man, but I know how hard it can be for women. You remained strong enough to find light in the darkness, but others may not have any strength at all. The weight of their predicament might be too much for them.

A woman in my position in life could not just up and go to college. There would just be too much on their plate to be able to handle an unplanned baby as well.

One more thing, you said: "most of her life I was in the U.S. Army."
Meaning, that most of her life, you were not around her enough to TRULY know the difficulties.

Lucky you...



(I'm sorry if that sounded rude, but I just spoke mind, that's all. Sorry...) sweatdrop

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