dissociated sex, definition of rape?

[Missy Murderess]

uh. tw for discussions of rape and dissociative episodes.
Okay, so I'm kind of interested in current rhetoric surrounding what constitutes consensual sex, specifically the argument that intoxicated sex is not sex, but rape (which obv it kind of is). Point being, if you can't consent, it's rape right?
But how does this apply to mental disorders, specifically dissociation/derealization disorders?
For example, if you have a dissociative episode during sex (which in feeling mimics being on a dissociative drug and messes with your memory) and can't remember what happened, even if you consented beforehand, because you were incapable of actively participating during, is that rape?
I mean, enthusiastic, consenting throughout sex is the goal right?
So, if someone has sex with you during a dissociative episode, is that rape?

[Silly Annie]

I would think maybe its better to split em
the whole idea of rapes gettin too complicated an people cant jus ******** no more

instead maybe split em so that the violent act of forcin sex on someone who dont want it stays rape an all the questionable but not really completely wrong kinda stuff is somet else in between

cause how many famlies an happy couples an awesome nights of hardcore happy ******** happened on drugs or drunk or whatever

besides
dont the mentally ill deserve a ******** if they want one?
even if they cant be with it the whole time an cant always remember it they might still wanna do it

like say I was demented or somet
an in a short moment of clarity Id say
"I know for sure I wanna get ******** today"
but then when it happens Im off in my own world again

but I wanted it when I was clear
Id say that aint rape
but somet thas kinda rapey but not as bad
an maybe not bad at all dependin on the details

so I say split em

sex rape an then a whole buncha grey area

[legnanellaf5]

I would say no, because the thing is how would they know? To them you had consented. Unlike if you were drugged or really drunk where you can tell that you are not really in the right state, unless they know of the episodes and knew what it looked like, the person would have no idea that it was happening.

[defloweredmind]

I would say if someone has those episodes they need to talk to their partner about it before ever allowing sex to enter the relationship. Not all sex is good sex and communication is important to have good sex. If this person has episodes they should talk to their partner and make their partner aware that if they don't seem like their into it to stop. There are plenty of times when I've had sex that I'll be in and out of it. Sometimes I'll start to do it because I think I'll get in the mood if I just get the juices flowing. Other times I'm really into it and then I just want to stop. Which I do at my own will. My partner never has an issue if I want to stop. So, the person with the episodes needs to clearly communicate when they are clear-headed their expectations when it comes to stopping while in the act.

[A Random Act of Terror]

I'd say it's not rape.

Why:

You consented beforehand, and you should have made your partner aware of any issues you have, especially ones that could impair your judgement later (dissociative disorders, bipolar disorders, etc).

I'm against victim blaming, but there is also a point where either person should be held accountable for their actions.

Then again, if you want the legalese for it, you're probably better off consulting someone knowledgeable in the area (if, for example, this has happened to you)

[AbsurdEffigy]

As a person with PTSD related dissociation from a rape, I can tell you that when this happens it is not sudden and doesn't happened without knowledge. It is the person who has the mental disorders responsibility to inform their partner that they need to stop. It makes sex complicated, and most times nothing gets said, but it doesn't make you forget what your doing.

[1tty bitty kitty]

you would need to look up the laws in your area.
But typically if at any point during or before sex, you can no longer give informed consent, it is rape.
It doesn't matter if you gave consent beforehand. What matters is that you consistently and actively give consent throughout the entire experience.

[werethnal]

I would say it's not rape unless something happened that would require further consent( ie going from vaginal to a**l sex). At least in my experience people don't normal consent every few moments verbally and unless there was a good indication (ie crying or pushing away) there would be no indication that consent was no longer present or that the ability to consent had changed.

[Melonhoney]

If they consented beforehand and then became unreceptive afterwards, how can anyone start claiming the participant was raping them? That can easily be portrayed to the other as just a plain ol' boring ********. If you don't convey how you're feeling, then no one can be blamed. Humans aren't mind-readers.

If the one who instigates sex knows that the person has some kind of dissociative/derealization disorder (which has been properly diagnosed by a doctor) in which they go through phases of total unawareness and purposely takes advantage of that by having sex only during those times, that's pretty shitty and it probably should be reported.

[Bokee Gngr]

Missy Murderess

uh. tw for discussions of rape and dissociative episodes.
Okay, so I'm kind of interested in current rhetoric surrounding what constitutes consensual sex, specifically the argument that intoxicated sex is not sex, but rape (which obv it kind of is). Point being, if you can't consent, it's rape right?
But how does this apply to mental disorders, specifically dissociation/derealization disorders?
For example, if you have a dissociative episode during sex (which in feeling mimics being on a dissociative drug and messes with your memory) and can't remember what happened, even if you consented beforehand, because you were incapable of actively participating during, is that rape?
I mean, enthusiastic, consenting throughout sex is the goal right?
So, if someone has sex with you during a dissociative episode, is that rape?

If the person knew that this was going on then sure but how can they? On face value I would say "no" because the person did consent before hand, and unless during the episode they said "NO stop" then there would be no reason for someone to believe that they withdrew their consent. With that said, if the person having episodes tells the partner before hand and explains what the episodes are like then this may not be an issue. Also, if you communicate before any problems of episodes then the person will be aware of something going different and can ask the person "are you ok" which for many is enough to pull them out of the episode and they can say "no, I want to stop" or "I am now".

[thatonechick101]

I would assume that would be considered rape. Like you said, they aren't in their right mindset and therefore cannot give clear consent. Even if they consented before the disassociative episode, that does not mean they are giving consent during it, which is just as important.

[klebold5]

You can consent if you are drunk.
You cannot consent if you are passed out.

There is a difference.

Just think about Ireland, about 99% of all its people were conceived from drunk sex.

If you drank, and said that you didn't consent to whatever happened, then there would be no violations for drunk driving. But then again, people who kill innocent pedestrians while drunk driving only get probation.

[Missy Murderess]

err... i'm asking because i was in a mutually abusive relationship when i was fourteen, and for clarity's sake i'm trying to figure out if that was another relationship where consent wasn't constant.
my partner knew i had dissociative episodes, and knew i was dissociating during.
also: yeah i wasn't telling him to stop, but it's not like i really could you know? i can barely remember what happened (to the point that i don't know how many times we ********, but it's a relatively small number), compared to my other sexual experiences where i remember everything in vivid detail (in part, i think, because I felt comfortable enough with them to stay present).

[Missy Murderess]

AbsurdEffigy

As a person with PTSD related dissociation from a rape, I can tell you that when this happens it is not sudden and doesn't happened without knowledge. It is the person who has the mental disorders responsibility to inform their partner that they need to stop. It makes sex complicated, and most times nothing gets said, but it doesn't make you forget what your doing.

um.
i told my partner i'd started dissociating even before sex, but i could only tell him that because i'd been dissociating so frequently (4 hour episodes every day, plus multiple minor episodes throughout the day, every day, for a year), and for the times that i didn't have words to describe what was going on, and a good portion of the times i did, the dissociation did occur suddenly, about as suddenly as a panic attack.

[Missy Murderess]

Mistrele

If they consented beforehand and then became unreceptive afterwards, how can anyone start claiming the participant was raping them? That can easily be portrayed to the other as just a plain ol' boring ********. If you don't convey how you're feeling, then no one can be blamed. Humans aren't mind-readers.

If the one who instigates sex knows that the person has some kind of dissociative/derealization disorder (which has been properly diagnosed by a doctor) in which they go through phases of total unawareness and purposely takes advantage of that by having sex only during those times, that's pretty shitty and it probably should be reported.

yeah but if your partner knows you dissociate extremely frequently, and you go unresponsive during sex you'd think they'd think to check in?
also: dissociation episodes render you incapable of conveying how you're feeling. in my case, i'm too busy doubting my existence and the reality of the world around me to be able to talk or do anything, or sometimes remember what happened. hence, why it's so like being extremely intoxicated, and if it's rape if you're incapable of conveying your consent/lack thereof because you're wasted then the same should apply to dissociative episodes where a partner doesn't at least check in and ask if you're okay (although tbh: given that you're kind of incapable of communicating what's happening to you or functioning, that's probably not informed consent so).