Counterculture: Rave Scene

[Apocalyptic Skittle]

Personally its not my cup of tea, but other people have their ways of having fun. Who am I to judge?

[SuchSweetSadism]

lumnata

SuchSweetSadism

Thanks for your input! ^-^

I see it being a lot more popular in Florida, but I live in NYC and I find that finding out about these things is pretty difficult even with all the people. If there is a rumor of one passing around, it's usually miles away.

Rave after parties? Any for other things than sensual kinds?

They're not sexual or anything. As the other person said, it's just a place to wind down on a smaller scale.

Ah I just know X has a bit of a bad rep.

[Figuren]

For the record, not ever raver is an e-tard.

No, you can't spot a raver a mile away. It has no real distinct style in terms of dress. Sometimes there is, but it's not pervasive.
I've been to some raves. I don't even really consider it a counter-culture. It doesn't really go against the typical image of a party except in that it's just... bigger.
That said, most counter-cultures are key in actually defining culture itself. They don't have to be distinct, and even if they are, some, "rebellion," is to be expected.

[MathematicalxTrickery]

Figuren

For the record, not ever raver is an e-tard.

No, you can't spot a raver a mile away. It has no real distinct style in terms of dress. Sometimes there is, but it's not pervasive.
I've been to some raves. I don't even really consider it a counter-culture. It doesn't really go against the typical image of a party except in that it's just... bigger.
That said, most counter-cultures are key in actually defining culture itself. They don't have to be distinct, and even if they are, some, "rebellion," is to be expected.

The identification of being a "raver" is indeed a counter-culture. not going to a rave. I don't think you understand the identity concept. confused

[Imorinod]

On the point of "E-heads" :
I had a friend who was an ecstasy dealer.
From my experience with people who have done ecstasy it's not easy to tell.
Like every other kind of drug every person has a different reaction.
I know people who function better when they are high.
They are just so anxious and stressed out all the time that when they smoke weed they come down.
It's not the same for ecstasy, I understand. What I am saying is that you can't always tell.
Everybody has a different reaction to the drugs and sometimes they can maintain the symptoms and control how they look so the general public can't tell.

[Fuyugomori]

Well, since I'm dating omg-engaged-now to a DJ who used to party in the LA area, I guess I'll try to shine a bit of perspective on this from someone who has more or less looked "inside the scene" so we can wipe out of some of these more pathetic stereotypes.

MathematicalxTrickery

How well do "ravers" mesh with mainstream culture in your opinion? Can you usually spot an E-head from a mile away, or do you usually only know by knowing the individual?

I don't know why "raver" automatically equates to "e-head". Somehow I feel like that's called all punks or what have you potheads. It's ignorant, untrue, and ecstasy doesn't really make the scene, in my opinion. It's just a few who reflect on many. The papers are always going to report "Rave Busted - 3 Dead From Ecs Overdose" not "Rave Busted - Lots of Drug-free Fun Killed!"

That being said, I don't think you can spot an "E-head" from a mile away. That's like looking for someone who does any sort of drug. I do think it is possible to see a raver from a mile away, at least by the American standards. UK doesn't really follow the crazy trends a lot of American party-goers do, like the candy and rave-wear stuff. I know of some people who wear those things everyday, everywhere.

MathematicalxTrickery

What caused this culture to start?

I would assume a love for the music, in the same way that punk was started around the music. That's what I've always learned about the rave scene.

MathematicalxTrickery

Why does this culture continue to be popular?

I'm also going to say a love for the music here. It wouldn't be without the DJs and the producers that are out there.

MathematicalxTrickery

What are the pros and cons to mainstream culture from the "rave scene"?

Pros? It's a creative outlet for DJs and opens a market for more creative music. They brought vocoders and electric sounds to the table. It's really interesting to learn about the music scene.
The cons are obvious, drugs are a problem for any culture. You've got people who are in it for the music, and in it for the drugs.

[MathematicalxTrickery]

Fuyugomori

Well, since I'm dating omg-engaged-now to a DJ who used to party in the LA area, I guess I'll try to shine a bit of perspective on this from someone who has more or less looked "inside the scene" so we can wipe out of some of these more pathetic stereotypes.

MathematicalxTrickery

How well do "ravers" mesh with mainstream culture in your opinion? Can you usually spot an E-head from a mile away, or do you usually only know by knowing the individual?

I don't know why "raver" automatically equates to "e-head". Somehow I feel like that's called all punks or what have you potheads. It's ignorant, untrue, and ecstasy doesn't really make the scene, in my opinion. It's just a few who reflect on many. The papers are always going to report "Rave Busted - 3 Dead From Ecs Overdose" not "Rave Busted - Lots of Drug-free Fun Killed!"

That being said, I don't think you can spot an "E-head" from a mile away. That's like looking for someone who does any sort of drug. I do think it is possible to see a raver from a mile away, at least by the American standards. UK doesn't really follow the crazy trends a lot of American party-goers do, like the candy and rave-wear stuff. I know of some people who wear those things everyday, everywhere.

MathematicalxTrickery

What caused this culture to start?

I would assume a love for the music, in the same way that punk was started around the music. That's what I've always learned about the rave scene.

MathematicalxTrickery

Why does this culture continue to be popular?

I'm also going to say a love for the music here. It wouldn't be without the DJs and the producers that are out there.

MathematicalxTrickery

What are the pros and cons to mainstream culture from the "rave scene"?

Pros? It's a creative outlet for DJs and opens a market for more creative music. They brought vocoders and electric sounds to the table. It's really interesting to learn about the music scene.
The cons are obvious, drugs are a problem for any culture. You've got people who are in it for the music, and in it for the drugs.

You are extremely naive if you think that E isn't huge in the rave scene.
The picture in the OP?
DJ Tiesto. Hottest DJ at the moment. Can rake in 6 figures from a single party.
His hit?
Oh, I don't know...DJ Tiesto- XTC
You knowing someone who you claim did some shows in LA doesn't make your word absolute.
This is why raves are banned in many cities [ie Houston, Texas]. The DEA has attacked those who sell glow sticks.
The OP addresses the link between many items regular to raves and XTC, Adam, Rolls, whatever you call 'em.

Here's an article about the DEA and glowsticks:

Quote:

Rave promoters face legal battles and rising costs as Texas-based festivals like Airport try to survive

By By Kyle Whitacre (Daily Texan Staff)

Print this article
Share this article

Published: Monday, October 8, 2001

Updated: Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Events such as Airport Festival take a tremendous amount of time, money and effort to produce, but many other smaller raves take place almost every weekend of the year in Austin. Most of these are produced by smaller companies in Austin, Houston and Dallas. These raves do not offer the scope or size of raves such as Airport, but their promoters are dedicated to offering the same atmosphere and experience of larger rave festivals.

"It takes a lot of preparation," said Damon Allen, co-founder of Houston-based Kaos Entertainment. "We start promoting six months in advance."

Most of these smaller raves still attract crowds of over a thousand, and many try to promote local artists. With the surging popularity of techno music acts such as Moby, Fatboy Slim and The Chemical Brothers, the cost of popular DJs has skyrocketed and fewer low-budget promoters can afford the high prices.

"A couple of years ago DJs were dirt-cheap to produce," said Jon Love, owner of Austin-based Orgazmic Entertainment. "Now the majority of popular DJs are a large chunk of change. They're turning into rock stars."

Promoting smaller acts gives local artists a chance to prove themselves and helps promoters focus on other expensive aspects of producing a rave, such as promoting, attaining venues and lighting and speaker systems. Promotion consists mainly of fliers, but the sheer quantity of the number needed and the cost of producing the art takes up a good chunk of money, anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000.

With the rising costs of promotion and deejays, promoters are looking for ways to curb costs. One of the more recent trends is co-promotion with a dance club.

"I think it's declining as a party scene," Allen said. "The scene is moving into dance clubs with smaller club events. We do co-projects with clubs and split the bill - they have the venue, we handle promotions."

Promoters are also feeling heat from authorities. The DEA has been cracking down on the rave scene because of its reported links with the resurgence of the drug Ecstasy, or X. Earlier this year the DEA sued the promoter and concert hall manager of the State Palace Theater in New Orleans, using a federal "crack house" law to prosecute those involved in organizing the event. The DEA also banned rave items such as glow sticks, pacifiers, vapor rub and masks from dance venues, citing the items as drug paraphernalia.

But with the help of the ACLU, a few of these actions were reversed when U.S. District Judge G. Thomas Porteous ruled that prosecutors cannot force organizers to ban pacifiers or glow sticks since the law defines drug paraphernalia as "items that can be used to ingest drugs."

Authorities have attempted to use "crack-house" laws to shut down raves across Texas. Houston Police Department officers are no longer able to work security at raves while off duty. And while authorities continue to apply pressure on promoters and club owners, the lack of police security will offer more troubles to promoters.

In the last few years, techno music has found its way out of the underground, and today large rave festivals rival large rock festivals in size. The scene itself is growing out of underground parties and will now have to find its place in mainstream club life while struggling with ongoing legal issues with drug crackdowns.

Source

[Fuyugomori]

MathematicalxTrickery

You are extremely naive if you think that E isn't huge in the rave scene.
The picture in the OP?
DJ Tiesto. Hottest DJ at the moment. Can rake in 6 figures from a single party.
His hit?
Oh, I don't know...DJ Tiesto- XTC
You knowing someone who you claim did some shows in LA doesn't make your word absolute.
This is why raves are banned in many cities [ie Houston, Texas]. The DEA has attacked those who sell glow sticks.
The OP addresses the link between many items regular to raves and XTC, Adam, Rolls, whatever you call 'em.

Here's an article about the DEA and glowsticks:

Quote:

Rave promoters face legal battles and rising costs as Texas-based festivals like Airport try to survive

By By Kyle Whitacre (Daily Texan Staff)

Print this article
Share this article

Published: Monday, October 8, 2001

Updated: Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Events such as Airport Festival take a tremendous amount of time, money and effort to produce, but many other smaller raves take place almost every weekend of the year in Austin. Most of these are produced by smaller companies in Austin, Houston and Dallas. These raves do not offer the scope or size of raves such as Airport, but their promoters are dedicated to offering the same atmosphere and experience of larger rave festivals.

"It takes a lot of preparation," said Damon Allen, co-founder of Houston-based Kaos Entertainment. "We start promoting six months in advance."

Most of these smaller raves still attract crowds of over a thousand, and many try to promote local artists. With the surging popularity of techno music acts such as Moby, Fatboy Slim and The Chemical Brothers, the cost of popular DJs has skyrocketed and fewer low-budget promoters can afford the high prices.

"A couple of years ago DJs were dirt-cheap to produce," said Jon Love, owner of Austin-based Orgazmic Entertainment. "Now the majority of popular DJs are a large chunk of change. They're turning into rock stars."

Promoting smaller acts gives local artists a chance to prove themselves and helps promoters focus on other expensive aspects of producing a rave, such as promoting, attaining venues and lighting and speaker systems. Promotion consists mainly of fliers, but the sheer quantity of the number needed and the cost of producing the art takes up a good chunk of money, anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000.

With the rising costs of promotion and deejays, promoters are looking for ways to curb costs. One of the more recent trends is co-promotion with a dance club.

"I think it's declining as a party scene," Allen said. "The scene is moving into dance clubs with smaller club events. We do co-projects with clubs and split the bill - they have the venue, we handle promotions."

Promoters are also feeling heat from authorities. The DEA has been cracking down on the rave scene because of its reported links with the resurgence of the drug Ecstasy, or X. Earlier this year the DEA sued the promoter and concert hall manager of the State Palace Theater in New Orleans, using a federal "crack house" law to prosecute those involved in organizing the event. The DEA also banned rave items such as glow sticks, pacifiers, vapor rub and masks from dance venues, citing the items as drug paraphernalia.

But with the help of the ACLU, a few of these actions were reversed when U.S. District Judge G. Thomas Porteous ruled that prosecutors cannot force organizers to ban pacifiers or glow sticks since the law defines drug paraphernalia as "items that can be used to ingest drugs."

Authorities have attempted to use "crack-house" laws to shut down raves across Texas. Houston Police Department officers are no longer able to work security at raves while off duty. And while authorities continue to apply pressure on promoters and club owners, the lack of police security will offer more troubles to promoters.

In the last few years, techno music has found its way out of the underground, and today large rave festivals rival large rock festivals in size. The scene itself is growing out of underground parties and will now have to find its place in mainstream club life while struggling with ongoing legal issues with drug crackdowns.

Source

That snark.

I'm not at all saying E isn't huge in the rave scene, I'm simply saying that there are plenty of people have never done it from choice, and it's unfair to call out a whole group on something a few people do. The rave scene is huge, and there are tons of people. So by 'few' that would still imply several thousands of people. I was just telling you what I've heard from him and his friends who go to parties.It's better than to 'assume' (a**+u+me) you know everything based on an article you've read. The underground parties that people who love the music would actually want to go to don't typically have the unseen levels of drugs like the huge parties do.

Promoters want people to have FUN at parties, not get killed at drugs. People will stop going to the parties by certain promoters merely because they get busted too often. Not everyone goes for the drugs. People go for the MUSIC. AND THE CULTURE.

Furthermore, I don't know what DJ Tiesto's song relevance has to do with anything. That's like saying everyone who listens to a song called 'Meth' does meth. Do you not see the failed logic here? It's a song. Not a sociological study or survey of all ravers.

And DJ Tiesto's music is watered-down garbage anyway, but I'm biased because I only listen to hardcore.

Things have been banned before because of the choice of few before. Banning parties and glowsticks doesn't particularly surprise me. You aren't allowed to bring guns to any school. Would many people do that? No, but I'm sure a few would-- just as I'm sure a few would bring drugs to a party. Using glowsticks as a reason that raves are wild and crazy and drug-laden is extremely naive.

[mblock]

Quote:

DJ Tiesto. Hottest DJ at the moment. Can rake in 6 figures from a single party.
His hit?
Oh, I don't know...DJ Tiesto- XTC

gonk

This "six figure" claim on Tiesto is simply laughable. The kinds of gigs you're talking about are at these McDonald's raves that are basically concerts consisting of a bunch of watered-down nonsense. These are the parties that have massive promotion and end up being more dangerous and drug-riddled than a real rave since they get exposure more often and, unfortunately, end up giving us this piss-poor demographic. Every party I've attended has had security that was able to weed out sellers or people hiding behind vapor masks or any other riffraff in attendance, so I don't see the excuses anymore that "ravers are a bunch of druggies." If someone happens to start their roll before a party, it happens. People still hold onto the old beliefs that the rave scene started out as, but promoters seeing their parties busted or people dying from ODing or any other terrible incidents is something that they really don't want flying these days because in the real world, who wants to pay $60+ to get high and listen to music when they could do that in their living room for free? The notion that someone rents out a venue, hires talent and lighting crews, and set up speakers just to have a bunch of people get blasted and sit around all night when they should be dancing and having fun is ridiculous.

By the way, if you can absolutely prove to me that that is a legitimate song of his, I will not be hard pressed to call you an idiot and prove that any other points you've tried to make have been wrong since all of your information is really quite dated:

http://www.discogs.com/artist/DJ+Tiësto
Enjoy.

Regardless, the whole scene is really about fun so I'm not going to step on anyone elses toes here and say that the reason it's been around for so long is because as long as there's dance music to listen to, people will need a catalyst for it and parties of any type are really the only way they have to present themselves the best. Also, kandy kids are just plain adorable.

[Fuyugomori]

mblock

Also, kandy kids are just plain adorable.

:/ Gross.

[MathematicalxTrickery]

mblock

By the way, if you can absolutely prove to me that that is a legitimate song of his, I will not be hard pressed to call you an idiot and prove that any other points you've tried to make have been wrong since all of your information is really quite dated:

I deleted quite a lot of your post because it was babble and did not have any source whatsoever.
Legit song. He played it out in Dallas when I saw him @ Lizard Lounge

You're a moron.
McDonald's events? Don't make me laugh.
High ticket prices? That's what you expect for an amazing night.


The other points you can prove wrong?
Please, enlighten me. lol Do people wear pacifiers just because it looks cool?
You've done nothing but troll and flame. Poorly. You're kind of a bore.

Quote:

Regardless, the whole scene is really about fun so I'm not going to step on anyone elses toes here and say that the reason it's been around for so long is because as long as there's dance music to listen to, people will need a catalyst for it and parties of any type are really the only way they have to present themselves the best. Also, kandy kids are just plain adorable.

It's kandi kid. Big on PLUR[R]. Peace Love Unity Respect [Responsibility].

I say PLURR because that's how it is out in the Dallas area, but not every city I've partied in.



With all your semantic bantering, did you have anything to contribute to discussion?

[MathematicalxTrickery]

Fuyugomori

That snark.

I'm not at all saying E isn't huge in the rave scene, I'm simply saying that there are plenty of people have never done it from choice, and it's unfair to call out a whole group on something a few people do.

You misconstrue what I am saying. I am saying it is part of the scene; that it literally enhances the experience of the music. However it is naive to think that MDMA has not become embedded in the rave scene:

Quote:

A relative of both amphetamine and mescaline, MDMA is often described as a stimulant with psychedelic qualities. But its effects are primarily emotional, without the perceptual changes caused by LSD. Although MDMA was first synthesized by the German drug company Merck in 1912, it did not gain a following until the 1970s, when the psychonautical chemist Alexander Shulgin, a Dow researcher turned independent consultant, tried some at the suggestion of a graduate student he was helping a friend supervise. "It was not a psychedelic in the visual or interpretive sense," he later wrote, "but the lightness and warmth of the psychedelic was present and quite remarkable." MDMA created a "window," he decided. "It enabled me to see out, and to see my own insides, without distortions or reservations."

After observing some striking examples of people who claimed to have overcome serious personal problems (including a severe stutter and oppressive guilt) with the help of MDMA, Shulgin introduced the drug to a psychologist he knew who had already used psychedelics as an aid to therapy. "Adam," the pseudonym that Shulgin gave him (also a nickname for the drug), was on the verge of retiring, but was so impressed by MDMA's effects that he decided to continue working. He shared his techniques with other psychologists and psychiatrists, and under his influence thousands of people reportedly used the drug to enhance communication and self-insight. "It seemed to dissolve fear for a few hours," says a psychiatrist who tried MDMA in the early '80s. "I thought it would have been very useful for working with people with trauma disorders." Shulgin concedes that there was "a hint of snake-oil" in MDMA's reputed versatility, but he himself considered it "an incredible tool." He quotes one psychiatrist as saying, "MDMA is penicillin for the soul, and you don't give up penicillin, once you've seen what it can do."

Shulgin did not see MDMA exclusively as a psychotherapeutic tool. He also referred to it as "my low-calorie martini," a way of loosening up and relating more easily to others at social gatherings. This aspect of the drug came to the fore in the '80s, when MDMA became popular among nightclubbers in Texas, where it was marketed as a party drug under the name Ecstasy. The open recreational use of Ecstasy at clubs in Dallas and Austin brought down the wrath of the Drug Enforcement Administration, which decided to put MDMA in the same legal category as heroin. Researchers who emphasized the drug's psychotherapeutic potential opposed the ban. "We had no idea psychiatrists were using it," a DEA pharmacologist told Newsweek in 1985. Nor did they care: Despite an administrative law judge's recommendation that doctors be allowed to prescribe the drug, the ban on MDMA took effect the following year.

Thus MDMA followed the same pattern as LSD, moving from discreet psychotherapeutic use to the sort of conspicuous consumption that was bound to provoke a government reaction. Like LSD, it became illegal because too many people started to enjoy it. Although the DEA probably would have sought to ban any newly popular intoxicant, the name change certainly didn't help. In Ecstasy: The MDMA Story, Bruce Eisner quotes a distributor who claimed to have originated the name Ecstasy. He said he picked it "because it would sell better than calling it 'Empathy.' 'Empathy' would be more appropriate, but how many people know what it means?" In its traditional sense, ecstasy has a spiritual connotation, but in common usage it simply means intense pleasure -- often the kind associated with sex. As David Smith, director of the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic, observed, the name "suggested that it made sex better." Some marketers have been more explicit: A 1999 article in the Journal of Toxicology (headlined "SEX on the Streets of Cincinnati" wink reported an analysis of "unknown tablets imprinted with 'SEX' " that turned out to contain MDMA.

Quote:

The rave scene is huge, and there are tons of people. So by 'few' that would still imply several thousands of people. I was just telling you what I've heard from him and his friends who go to parties.It's better than to 'assume' (a**+u+me) you know everything based on an article you've read.

No, I assume based on the countless amount of raves I've been to, not some article.
Also the work of a famous sociologist Tammy Anderson of the University of Delaware. She also used participant observation to come to the same conclusions I've come to. If you can give some information leading to your cause of disagreement rather than your boyfriend lying to you about getting crunk as ******** at a rave, I'm all ears. wink

Quote:

The underground parties that people who love the music would actually want to go to don't typically have the unseen levels of drugs like the huge parties do.

Again, you're basing this on what your boyfriend tells you.
Tell you what, try this experiment: Go to a rave. If you see someone with glowsticks, ask how they're doing, then ask how hard they're rolling.

I bet the majority will say "hard". smile Go ahead if you don't believe me.
I'm not saying the drug does not have its risks. When I did it I would make sure I would not indulge more than once every two or three weeks.

Quote:

Promoters want people to have FUN at parties, not get killed at drugs.

Source please. How many people die from MDMA per million uses? You imply it's a lot.
Oh, wait, I have that statistic.

Quote:

The UK figures suggest seven ecstasy-related deaths per million users. This compares to 625 alcohol-related deaths per million drinkers.

The reasons?

Quote:

Complications from overheating, often alongside heavy alcohol consumption, is the most common cause of death. However, drinking too much water in an attempt to stay 'safe' is more dangerous. Some, often inexperienced, users have died after drinking as much water as they physically could. In one reported case, a user died after drinking 26 pints of water in a short space of time. The excess water causes the brain to swell inside the skull, which puts pressure on the brain stem and leads to coma and death.

Deaths involving contaminants are rare but do happen, as do deaths involving drugs cocktails (ecstasy and DXM, and ecstasy, cocaine and Viagra are the current dangerous mixes).

So by your logic, based on the deaths ratio, XTC has more reason to be legal than alcohol, no?
Anti-drugs guide. More biased AGAINST the use of the drug than for it. So don't try to say I'm using a biased source wink

Quote:

People will stop going to the parties by certain promoters merely because they get busted too often. Not everyone goes for the drugs. People go for the MUSIC. AND THE CULTURE.

The culture has the drug embedded into it.

Quote:

Furthermore, I don't know what DJ Tiesto's song relevance has to do with anything. That's like saying everyone who listens to a song called 'Meth' does meth. Do you not see the failed logic here? It's a song. Not a sociological study or survey of all ravers.

True. However, there's quite a few songs about it.
Why? Why would top artists in the world talk about this drug in their songs? These people go to these parties and mention these drugs.
Why?
HM.
Another very popular artist: Showtek - ******** The System. This song is virtually an explanation of the culture.

Quote:

And DJ Tiesto's music is watered-down garbage anyway, but I'm biased because I only listen to hardcore.

Hardcore is outdated. It's all about speedcore and hardstyle. However, I agree with the "DJ Tiesto is watered-down" sentiment.

Quote:

Things have been banned before because of the choice of few before. Banning parties and glowsticks doesn't particularly surprise me. You aren't allowed to bring guns to any school.

Some schools allow adults to bring guns to school. Your analogy fails.

Quote:

Using glowsticks as a reason that raves are wild and crazy and drug-laden is extremely naive.

No, it's a visual enhancement. What kind of moron plays with a glowstick that is an adult if they're not under a hallucinogenic?

[Rosetta Celestine]

Reminds me of the disco scene of the 70's, which sounds so retro-fabulous. It's just safer since cocaine isn't snorted like candy like it was back in the day at discotechs.

My mom and her siblings grew up in the 80's and were pretty into partying at clubs, which involved much booze and blow at that time, two very unhealthy substances. Luckily none of my relatives ruined their lives by partying hard.

The clothing and culture of the rave scene seems to be a a bastardized form of punk. Heavily heavily bastardized. And not in a necessarily bad way.

Overall it seems to be a positive environment. You don't hear about ravers who have ruined their lifes by raving often. It's seems most people are undercover-ravers. I'm sure plenty of doctors and policemen and other professionals are all going out into the desert at night to get blitzed.

[SuchSweetSadism]

Rosetta Celestine

Overall it seems to be a positive environment. You don't hear about ravers who have ruined their lifes by raving often. It's seems most people are undercover-ravers. I'm sure plenty of doctors and policemen and other professionals are all going out into the desert at night to get blitzed.

This is the aspect that compells me to look into it more. It's an engrossing culture, that I'd like to experience first hand.

[Herpthenderp]

E-tards are pretty easy to spot. As for me and my 'family', we're all clean ravers. Mild underage drinking, but no drugs. None of us is under 18, either, so the 'rents aren't an issue.

Me, I rave for the music and the environment. I love my techno - hardstyle/hardcore/industrial - and I love the escape I find there. I'm a massage therapist and was raised in a conservative household, so the open no-pressure acceptance gives me only of the very few places I feel true to myself. I'm not trying to be anything for anyone, not trying to impress them and I don't have to do anything for anyone. I can dance and dress however I want and I don't feel self-concious at all.

Sometimes - at least in the Seattle area where I live - you can spot a raver from a mile away, and sometimes you have no idea until you run into someone you know, but never knew as a raver.