What the z!Forum has become and why I don't care

[Whale Child]

Silk Kanishk

You're right; it's not guaranteed. It's more of a chance that can only be determined in how the person's friends will react. However, if the person that is taking interest into leaving has the slightest concern that his/her friends would announce his/her absence from the community, then it should be at least his/her 'responsibility' to notify his/her friends that he/she will not appreciate that type of behavior. Unless the person doesn't defends his/herself as soon as the thread is created, then the said person will immediately be associated with the tag "attention-whore." Though we both understand that that tag is entirely an assumption since no one can read eachother's mind/motives, you shouldn't forget that those specific claims can be justified into sense just by analyzing how the 'quitter' is reacting toward the thread created for him/her.
I acknowledge that there are genuine people with genuine feelings in regards to leaving with the least attention possible. However, what distinguishes them from the rest of the criticized models is that he/she would do whatever he/she can to take down the offensive topic. Unlike the two examples you provided, both models include the 'subjects' condoning the behavior or suggesting a 'reason' why they don't have the power to control how their peers act. I get that; every person for his own thoughts. Though, the peer should at least know that if the 'quitter' didn't make a thread for his/herself then what gives the peer the idea that he/she should do it for them; especially without the 'quitter's' consent. However, if the 'quitter' does happen give consent, even by impressing an 'I won't do anything to stop this' behavior, he/she will look like he/she wants attention regardless.

As a disclaimer, the last thing I want to do is provoke a potential flame war between my possibly unpopular opinion and the defending friends of Dandeliondart's or Miya's. I respect that both players can make whatever personal decision they like in relation to the real world; I just don't respect how the event was carried out. In my personal opinion, everything could have been executed better.
Dandeliondart's anonymous gifting spree between many recognized players of zOMG! was basically setting itself up for a "Let's play Sherlock." Not only that, but her vague message of 'leaving' enforced an insecurity of who was lost and who wasn't. It would have been silly to believe that when a ringlet of friends 'coincidentally' get a gift of the same written message they would not put forth the effort to track down who it is.
In regards to Miya's case, I respect that you did - at least for me - the right thing. You approached a private matter through the use of a private system. Her other friends, however, did not. They assumed that by posting an appreciation topic that would only tolerate endearing / familiar faces, she would not leave.
Never have I said or laid my personal thoughts of what I believe is a proper status nor have I even mentioned whether the person should or shouldn't announce his/her departure. From what I've only been concern with, they can do whatever they want in deciding if it's 'necessary' to leave a message. That is their personal decision; not mine. The only thing that affects me, despite that it is/can be indirect, is whether or not the departure is announced in Z!F.

[Mage The Red]

emotion_facepalm

I am simply going to stay neutral. Everything I would've said, has already been said.

Miya, as much as we are friends, I don't condone this at all.

[Mademoiselle Kit]

Can we stop the fighting please? gonk


My forum... cry

[Silk Kanishk]

Whale Child

Silk Kanishk

I'm glad you at least agree that it isn't the fault of the person leaving unlike what you and curt were suggesting earlier. razz That is what I was trying the hardest to make you guys understand.

As for onus being on the leaver condemning the people who started the thread, this is very hard to do. To me it seems pretty ungrateful for a person to enter a thread and respond to the love they're being showed, with a blunt reprisal. It's just not humanly possible to do. We're not machines. Especially when you call it "the offensive topic". Sure it breaks the rules, but offending makes it sounds like it has a negative connotation which is exactly the opposite of what the thread is. So we'll probably disagree on this, but I can think the human element to show gratitude for being appreciated is of far greater importance than correcting them for breaking the rules. I believe the spirit of the rules are more important than the rules themselves.

Let's again examine Dande's case. Sure it can be implied that by announcing her farewell through anon gifts, she was trying to bring forum wide attention to herself, but I'd rather believe that Dande wanted a means to say thanks and goodbye to her friends without identifying herself in the process just in case the receiver quickly retorts with attempts to bring her back. Giving up one's wealth is also a way of ensuring that there is nothing to return to in which case, her reasons for leaving were genuine and not to gain attention.

In regards to Miya's case. Is a person leaving a community where they've been active for a long time and come to have known many people a private one? Keep in mind, I didn't meebo her because I thought it was inappropriate for the forums, I did so because I could have a real time conversion with her on a matter that seemed like an emergency rather than painstakingly wait for each reply to come in the form of a post. And Again, you're giving negative connotations to a thread that's actually the opposite. It's a thread showing appreciation for another person. In such case, the humane response is to show some courtesy. Displeasure is better shown either through ignoring or reporting the topic.

As I said, zOMG! isn't a collection of single players like Moga and HOC are, it thrives on the very idea of a community so I'd argue that protecting that notion is far more important to the game than observing the rules. Remember, the rules are laid for the betterment of the forum and game as a whole so when a thread breaks the laws in letter but achieves the spirit of what the rules are trying to accomplish, then that thread is valid. wink

[Silk Kanishk]

Mademoiselle Kit

Can we stop the fighting please? gonk


My forum... cry

We're not fighting. We're just having a calm discussion cause you know, that's what the forum is for. razz

[Whale Child]

Silk Kanishk

I'm not sure if Curt Neko and I share the same argument. Unless we're both expressing 'even though it's not the person's prior fault of the creation of the thread, it's the person's responsibility to take action against it,' then yes.

I agree with you that this is something we're not going to be on the same page for. To me, you're playing with a lot of 'human factors' as though they're some sort of justification for an individual to be above a rule. That isn't right, regardless of how or what the person feels. If I were to take my leave but soon discover that one of my peers made a topic about it in z!F, I'd be pissed. For one, he/she just opened my departure for judgement from the zOMG! community. For two, I don't tolerate public confrontations of my personal decisions when it could be done 'face to face.' For three, I don't want my decisions of what I'm re-prioritizing to 'burden' the z!F since it has nothing to do with direct contributions to the game.
I refuse to associate myself with a person who cannot respect my privacy.

If Dande's actions are genuine, great. I just didn't agree how she approached the issue with the anon-gifting on top of the anon-message. It could've been done better without the scavenger hunt.

Again, you're using 'humane response' as a justification for your reasoning. From what you're trying to persuade me, people with /aloof or stoic/ qualities are apparently not being considered despite that their attitude is more objective. Though threads may have the original intention of providing the better, it's not going to appeal to the 'minorities' that have a well understanding that the topic is not appropriate. I'm aware that not everyone can be happy with one thing, however if the community actually does what it 'should' be doing rather than 'prefer' to be doing, then the emerging 'stfu if you don't agree/like what i'm doing' attitude wouldn't be an issue as it shouldn't be.

Spirits don't override anything. It's just something individuals mentally feed on as a personal reminders that what he/she is doing is tolerable or what can be deemed as 'well-worth it.'

I don't want to have a discussion about spirits because it's far too relative with personal backstories, ect. Though we agree on some minor points, we're not going to agree on the main ones. I also acknowledge that since I have no familiarity with either Miya and Dande, I don't 'necessarily' have the 'honest' right to judge or accuse them of what is genuine and what is not. My only concern is that personal decisions became public in where it shouldn't be.

[Vicious Hanyou]

:eats popcorn:

[curtneko]

whale child best z!f poster 2013

[Colorful Dookie]

/peeks in

[Scobre]

Great thread Miya. Ooh I'm gonna get bashed for believing in game still. So awesome. lol

[Scobre]

Why does it matter if someone gives anons away when quitting? What does it even matter if they get attention or not? Mind your one business people. Too many big brother syndrome on Gaia. Sheesh. dramallama Good friends told me it's just a waste of time concentrating on the negative stuff and also have said, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be loved?" I think too many people have too much free time posting negative stuff in forums. Go do some homework or help a nub or do some chores, something more productive with your time before you wrinkle up and die. If someone wants to quit and say bye to community let them. If they come back don't judge them. Topics about leaving Gaia and zOMG! I think are on topic because it's the forum in which they have posted before. Well at least this gives me an idea that there should be a sub-forum or a sticky for people leaving Gaia on z!F. That way the forums can be more organized. Try to find the positive things in what you think are bad situations. It can create such interesting new ideas. I agree with original poster. I rather have the forum alive than dead.

[Gemenice]

Scobre

Why does it matter if someone gives anons away when quitting? What does it even matter if they get attention or not? Mind your one business people. Too many big brother syndrome on Gaia. Sheesh. dramallama Good friends told me it's just a waste of time concentrating on the negative stuff and also have said, "Do you want to be right or do you want to be loved?" I think too many people have too much free time posting negative stuff in forums. Go do some homework or help a nub or do some chores, something more productive with your time before you wrinkle up and die. If someone wants to quit and say bye to community let them. If they come back don't judge them. Topics about leaving Gaia and zOMG! I think are on topic because it's the forum in which they have posted before. Well at least this gives me an idea that there should be a sub-forum or a sticky for people leaving Gaia on z!F. That way the forums can be more organized. Try to find the positive things in what you think are bad situations. It can create such interesting new ideas. I agree with original poster. I rather have the forum alive than dead.

What does your post have to do with anything please? I seriously don't get it. Writing "I love you, please have my babies before you leave' belongs in chatterbox. There are bunch of those already.

and one more thing.
"Do you want to be right or do you want to be loved?"

Whoever said that, has to be the worst friend ever. I don't want to pretend to be someone else, just to get all the people to like me. I like being myself, having my own opinion and not glare through a smile. If I don't agree with someone, doesn't mean we can't be friends. It means we have different opinions and respect each other enough so we don't see it as a problem.

So yeah. Normal people want to be THEMSELVES, right and loved. And they usually manage.

[Proletariat Porno]

Miyaka Hana

The issue im seeing is love vs hate. People want to be known and recognized. Chastising them for that isnt fair because im sure that you would like to be known and recognized as well. If youre not being recognized then youre hating on the ones that are. I am sure thats not always the case but there is some truth to that statement.

It's not hate versus love. It's what's correct for our forum. Morally and within the rules.
Personally, I find these fanthreads beyond disgusting. They're far worse than anything from the elitism era.

[Silk Kanishk]

Whale Child

Silk Kanishk

Again, we're gonna differ on this, you're judging how the person should react to a thread about them on the presumption that the thread was inappropriate to begin with. I however do not see it the same way. It's a matter of opinion and differ's from person to person. Just as you wouldn't appreciate having your departure being exposed to the public to be seen, I'm sure there would be others who'd appreciate being cared for. You cannot use rules to cover your personal opinion when the rules don't really apply in the first place. I'll explain why the rules don't matter further down.

Please explain to me how Dande's departure could've be done in a better way? Keep in mind, she wanted to thank and say goodbye to her friends without identifying herself and as far as I know, gifting is the only form of communication on Gaia that can be done anonymously.

Spirits do override the rules if they represent what the rules stand for. In this it's not that people are justifying their actions by claiming it is for the greater good, but rather they are justifying the greater good through their actions.

Let's look to the past. The z!f had stricter rules when it first came out that made it even harder to thrive as a community back then. Let's say that a thread that is perfectly acceptable today may have not been acceptable back then, then you as an 'objective' person would naturally feel inclined to point that out to the thread starter. As you can see from this case, rules are arbitrary. Your basis for what is right and wrong and what is objective changes with time. If rules were strictly good for the forums and should be followed to the letter, but then were later changed, then that implies that rules are not absolute in themselves but represent a higher value or the greater good in this case and that is what people should really be considering when they make decisions on what's appropriate to post in the forums and what's not. smile

[Silk Kanishk]

Proletariat Porno

Miyaka Hana

The issue im seeing is love vs hate. People want to be known and recognized. Chastising them for that isnt fair because im sure that you would like to be known and recognized as well. If youre not being recognized then youre hating on the ones that are. I am sure thats not always the case but there is some truth to that statement.

It's not hate versus love. It's what's correct for our forum. Morally and within the rules.
Personally, I find these fanthreads beyond disgusting. They're far worse than anything from the elitism era.

What's morally wrong about showing appreciation to another person? And how is it more disgusting than a person claiming he is better than everyone else? confused