Literacy

Do you believe a simple literacy test would be helpful?

Yes	37.7%	[ 52 ]
No	62.3%	[ 86 ]
Total Votes:			[ 138 ]

[Tzeentch The Mutator]

Kimberly Daniels

KoL's literacy test doesn't keep the "stupid" away.

have you ever looked at The Graffiti Wall on the Wrong Site of the Tracks? gonk

The graffiti wall does not require you take the literacy test.

jessyta

Considering even the CREATORS of Gaia make numerous errors in both spelling and grammar right on the site, wouldn't it be pretty hypocritical to expect all the uers to use perfect English at all times? icon_neutral.gif

I'm not saying people have to be perfect. I'm sure I have numerous usage or other wierd errors that I don't notice. I'd just like capital letters at the beginnings, and one endmark at the end of sentences, with a minimum of spelling errors in between. I don't expect everyone to be reading the dictionary while typing, but I would like it if they made an effort.

This test would simply weed out the people incapable of typing reasonably well written sentences.

[Gelmax]

I shall be quite consumed with astonishment when someone who is himself literate suggests such a thing.

[Nuada Argent]

Here's an idea: quit bitching and suck it up. Welcome to the internet, pal.

[Sinfair]

Kouji Wolf-Chan

COPY AND PASTE THIS FOR 28 GOLD PER POST!!!.....etc

reported

[jessyta]

Gideon Ravenor

jessyta

Considering even the CREATORS of Gaia make numerous errors in both spelling and grammar right on the site, wouldn't it be pretty hypocritical to expect all the uers to use perfect English at all times? icon_neutral.gif

I'm not saying people have to be perfect. I'm sure I have numerous usage or other wierd errors that I don't notice. I'd just like capital letters at the beginnings, and one endmark at the end of sentences, with a minimum of spelling errors in between. I don't expect everyone to be reading the dictionary while typing, but I would like it if they made an effort.

This test would simply weed out the people incapable of typing reasonably well written sentences.

I still see a few flaws in your suggestion.

Firstly, testing someone who CAN type properly when they want/need to won't ensure that after they 'pass' the test they will not revert back to typing without proper grammar. Unless you are also suggesting a rule be made that requires users to type their messages using proper grammar, and if you are, I have to laugh. xd

Secondly, if you don't think people need to be perfect, where does the line get drawn? Would a person who can't figure out if they should use the word 'there' or 'their' but COULD figure out that the first letter in a sentence needs to be capitalized... would they pass? Who would determine what rules of grammar do need to be followed and what ones do not? A logical answer owuld be to have the admins do it, since they would be the one creating the test... but that brings me back to my point. THEY don't even use proper grammar many times.

Thirdly, what about the people who have played Gaia for years, donated to the site, made friends here... but can not or will not take and pass the test? Are you suggesting they be banned? Or would the test be grandfathered? And if it owuld be grandfathered, how would that be fair?

My main point here is just because you like proper capitalization and puncuation doesn't mean everyone should be forced to abide by those rules. This is a website people come on to have fun, relax, unwind. Literacy tests would make Gaia less fun for some users.

[Tzeentch The Mutator]

jessyta

Gideon Ravenor

jessyta

Considering even the CREATORS of Gaia make numerous errors in both spelling and grammar right on the site, wouldn't it be pretty hypocritical to expect all the uers to use perfect English at all times? icon_neutral.gif

I'm not saying people have to be perfect. I'm sure I have numerous usage or other wierd errors that I don't notice. I'd just like capital letters at the beginnings, and one endmark at the end of sentences, with a minimum of spelling errors in between. I don't expect everyone to be reading the dictionary while typing, but I would like it if they made an effort.

This test would simply weed out the people incapable of typing reasonably well written sentences.

I still see a few flaws in your suggestion.

Firstly, testing someone who CAN type properly when they want/need to won't ensure that after they 'pass' the test they will not revert back to typing without proper grammar. Unless you are also suggesting a rule be made that requires users to type their messages using proper grammar, and if you are, I have to laugh. xd

Secondly, if you don't think people need to be perfect, where does the line get drawn? Would a person who can't figure out if they should use the word 'there' or 'their' but COULD figure out that the first letter in a sentence needs to be capitalized... would they pass? Who would determine what rules of grammar do need to be followed and what ones do not? A logical answer owuld be to have the admins do it, since they would be the one creating the test... but that brings me back to my point. THEY don't even use proper grammar many times.

Thirdly, what about the people who have played Gaia for years, donated to the site, made friends here... but can not or will not take and pass the test? Are you suggesting they be banned? Or would the test be grandfathered? And if it owuld be grandfathered, how would that be fair?

My main point here is just because you like proper capitalization and puncuation doesn't mean everyone should be forced to abide by those rules. This is a website people come on to have fun, relax, unwind. Literacy tests would make Gaia less fun for some users.

It means we have a standard we can hold them to, that we know they can achieve, and can begin punishing those who repeatedly use netspeak.

People make mistakes and I acknowledge that. However when that mistake isn't once in a while and is constantly it becomes a problem.

The people who can't pass the test have their accounts deactivated. There is no time limit on the test, no limit on how many times you can take it.

Also, they're the rules of english that everyone should be held to.

[Spykkie]

Jini Hart, i would have quoted you but the insane maough of codes your colorful writing generate discouraged me out of it.

just wanted to say, poeple of other countries often end up typing better then english born poeple, precisly BECAUSE they want to be understood and that is why they learned english in the first place.

for the writing test...well... as much as good poeple would aprove it, illiterat poeple would call to arms...

it would be nice if we could get ride of the "U Rl3s t3h w0rldz" but these poeple would surely complain about it... specially since those who think it's cool to write like that are usually pretty selfish and quick to flame.

and it is sad but i dont think gaia would risk loosing those users even if it could make the other user's life easier... just lok at all the sex related stuff, the love/hate treads and cybering and stuff like that. gaia rules ask to avoid it, but the gaia programmers haven't done much to prevent it. so i dont think they would do something to prevent bad writing...

[Kilarra]

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be forced to use Standard English on an informal forum.

You may hate non-Standard English. But the chances are you speak non-Standard English everyday - in your dialectal form. The varieties of English that can be found on the Internet are just that: varieties. They are not bad, they are not good, because language can't be those things. It's a lesson many elitists need to learn.

I can assure you I'm perfectly capable of writing literate English prose. And yet, unless I'm in a serious discussion or something, like now, I don't. I use Internet-spawned vocabulary, deliberately deviant grammar and spelling, emoticons, abbreviations, the works.

Chatspeak is nothing but a more extreme variety of English, and is no less legitimate than academic writing because it is suitable for its context. The Internet promotes speed and convenience over perfect pieces of written text, because it is an amalgam of spoken and written modes of communication, and chatspeak, and other varieties of English you might find on the Internet, are just different dialects and sociolects in their online versions. They don't denote intelligence, they just denote the subcultures and Internet communities a person frequents.

LITERACY DOES NOT MATTER FOR A CASUAL FORUM, and it certainly shouldn't be a requirement for joining one. The elitism over how you use language is the last real unacknowledged area of prejudice and discrimination in today's society, and if other discrimination isn't allowed on Gaia, language usage prejudices certainly won't be, either.

[Tzeentch The Mutator]

Kilarra

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be forced to use Standard English on an informal forum.

You may hate non-Standard English. But the chances are you speak non-Standard English everyday - in your dialectal form. The varieties of English that can be found on the Internet are just that: varieties. They are not bad, they are not good, because language can't be those things. It's a lesson many elitists need to learn.

I can assure you I'm perfectly capable of writing literate English prose. And yet, unless I'm in a serious discussion or something, like now, I don't. I use Internet-spawned vocabulary, deliberately deviant grammar and spelling, emoticons, abbreviations, the works.

Chatspeak is nothing but a more extreme variety of English, and is no less legitimate than academic writing because it is suitable for its context. The Internet promotes speed and convenience over perfect pieces of written text, because it is an amalgam of spoken and written modes of communication, and chatspeak, and other varieties of English you might find on the Internet, are just different dialects and sociolects in their online versions. They don't denote intelligence, they just denote the subcultures and Internet communities a person frequents.

LITERACY DOES NOT MATTER FOR A CASUAL FORUM, and it certainly shouldn't be a requirement for joining one. The elitism over how you use language is the last real unacknowledged area of prejudice and discrimination in today's society, and if other discrimination isn't allowed on Gaia, language usage prejudices certainly won't be, either.

Wow, I'm glad someone had a well thought-out, well written retort. I am very pleased to have been on the recieving end of this message.

I have been using the internet constantly for the past five years, ever since I got broadband, and off and on before that, when I had dial-up. I was a chatter. I spoke in the internet tongues that you refer to as dialects. Then I began to grow up. I developed a great appreciation for the written word. With this test I do not intend to discriminate against anyone but the lazy, who I believe are in great need of our derision. I tire greatly of the amounts of spam that are now appearing hourly in the GD and ED. I find that with the constantly increasing amount of users with names like "PrincessGurl89" ,and its analogs, the quality of discussion and debate in the aforementioned forums drops with a direct corrolation that I have observed if not tested positive. There would still be a place for CB, you could still have your spam guilds, but all of Gaia would know that you are capable of a reasonably well-written post, that can be both legible and explain your views. Therefore, I believe the quality of this forum could rise if this literacy test was put into effect.

[jessyta]

I can't help but be amused about how you completely failed to address the multiple issues I saw with your suggestion. Can't help but assume you CAN'T address them. wink

[Tzeentch The Mutator]

jessyta

I can't help but be amused about how you completely failed to address the multiple issues I saw with your suggestion. Can't help but assume you CAN'T address them. wink

I believe I did address them. Effectively I said " Anyone can pass the test, and those who won't I don't want on this site."

[jessyta]

Gideon Ravenor

jessyta

I can't help but be amused about how you completely failed to address the multiple issues I saw with your suggestion. Can't help but assume you CAN'T address them. wink

I believe I did address them. Effectively I said " Anyone can pass the test, and those who won't I don't want on this site."

No, you did not. Here, I will ask my questions again:

1. What are you proposing is done to people who pass the test, but then revert back to using poor grammar. You said 'punish them', but HOW? A fine? A suspension from the site? Banning? A nasty PM from the grammar mods?

And along with that, how would you propose this new rule be enforced? Mods can't even delete posts NOW that are against the rules, and you want to give them TONS more work. neutral

2. Who will create the test, keeping in mind that the adminstrators of this site have repeatedly shown they don't know some of the most basic rules of the English language?

And how exactly can a test determine who is lazy, and who is just newer to the English language?

And what would you do about those guilds/threads were NO English is used? Would those people be expemt from taking the test?

3. You addressed this, but I want more info. How on earth would you be able to say it's fair for someone who has played on Gaia for YEARS to suddenly be unable to play simply because they don't use proper grammar? How would you explain to people who have donated money to a site they love and support that suddenly they are no longer welcome here, even though they were before?

I believe your suggestion is pretty selfish, to be completely honest. What makes your desire to only read well written sentences more important than other people's desire to simply be themselves?

[[Van Helson]]

I agree, thats why I have a guild. Its Called Literate RolePlayers Of Gaia.