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Chibi Halo's avatar

Barton Senshi

let just say thus alchemy use only item like fish, junk, Beetle that no need spend gold to find it.


          Uh, what about those formulas that require you to have ten or more random box fail items in order to craft the item you're wanting? That's going to take gold to get them items off the marketplace because they're not a renewable crafting item. So yes you do need to spend quite a bit of gold especially when you're never going to see sixty to eighty special ads that give you items and be lucky to get all the Edwardian shoes you need to make the Black shoes each time you click the ad. Some things we may never see because it requires just far too much in order to make the item in the end.

Herr Mannelig's avatar

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Pros & Cons

Single Pro

      Multiple Cons
      • This is causing MP item prices to inflate.
        arrow You're using RIG items and other such items that have limited supplies, as other users have said. This is making those items rarer and whatever items they produce EVEN MORE RARE. Let's pretend I'm a user who does not currently own a Double Rainbow. I want one. I mosey on over to the MP, and the Double Rainbow item, due to the fact that it's an ingredient in the Nomy the Snail recipe, is now more expensive. And there is a limited number of Double Rainbow items. So I'm screwed: either I QUEST FOR A ONCE-FREE ITEM- because that's how expensive it is, or I just don't get one. All this is causing is items to become rarer, and sinking a painful amount of existing items. And I don't like it one bit. You can ask me to sink all the gold I have, Gaia, and I'll do it. But when you're sinking ITEMS, that's just too far.

      • You're not using the existing unlimited items from DC, zOMG, gold shops, etc as much as you should.
        arrow Finding a better use for our paper, bugs, stitches, flamingo feathers, and all the other random un-equip-able crap we accumulate would've been a less painful choice, one you did not do, to the extent that you could've. Those items are not as easy to make rare, since, you know- their quantities are limitless. Instead of requiring a rabbit foot or whatever for the Edwardian shoes, you could've made it two flamingo feathers, or something.

      • You used RIG items and such in the recipes.
        arrow BLAAAAAARG, this relates to the first listed con. Instead of telling you again how wrong that is, I'll make a suggestion: I understand some of the logic behind using existing RIG items for their recolors/similar items. I get it. But I think you should've sold "template" items that would take the RIG/limited supply items' place in recipes. For example: Flowing Chestnut Princess Locks. The recipe calls for Flowing Princess Locks in Red and Blonde. You could replace those with "Princess Hair A" and "Princess Hair B", or something. PHA and PHB would be items that have the outline of the hair, only they're grayed out. Those could exist solely for use in recipes. Those items could be sold for 100k or more a pop in Cresento's shop or someone else's. Or they could be crafted from a zOMG recipe using zOMG recipe items. This idea would not cause catastrophic levels of inflation in the MP, and it could be a gold sink/zOMG promotion in one.

      • Recipes call for amounts of limited items.
        arrow Again, this relates to the first con and the one before this one, and the one before that one. I'm sorry for being repetitive, but that's just how wrong this is to me. Instead of doing this cry you could've used existing ingredient items or created more.

Overall Reaction to this Feature:
This is screwing me over. I'm not as active as I used to be. I won't be able to get as many items as I'd like for my avi. I won't be able to fully enjoy creating ridiculous avis with as many affordable items as possible to the extent that I could 24 hours ago. Affordable, cute items like the Double Rainbow are being taken from me (thank god I have one of those) and I'm not pleased. This is honestly, in my humble opinion, the worst thing. Yes, worse than the cig ban of '09. This caused -quite possibly- irreparable damage to the MP. This is SINKING ITEMS. sad
Maybe I'm being hasty and quick to judge, maybe somehow this will combat inflation more, sink more gold, and overall be good for Gaia. But it doesn't seem that way. It doesn't seem like this is going in the right direction. I really wish you had thought this through, hard. Had several people look at it, had an economist look at it, had a discussion about this and any and all things it may cause. This feature has, or had- great potential. I like the item from the starter pack. If more recipes were like it, if the ingredients were all unlimited; if maybe the recipes were released slowly, ten or twenty at a time, this could've been different. But it's not. I can honestly say that if this does further damage to the MP, I may give up on Gaia. I'm mainly here for the forums and the avatars. If half of something that keeps me here changes this drastically for the worse, it's not ridiculous that I would leave.
Almandaragal's avatar

Jeering Gaian

The idea of this system? Great, absolutely one of the largest potential features we have. Unfortunately, that's where things stop being so great.

I've looked into the formulas at various levels, and it has become very apparent to me that Gaia still has major issues with balance. This can be seen in RIGs already, where the concept of odds and attainability seem lost on the staff members as most of them don't have time to be users.

Fishing's update in December was fairly well balanced. There were some questionable additions, like rare Prize and Joy items that nearly overshadow the fish going into the recipe, but for the most part that seemed well balanced. Maybe you had some help on that one, who knows.

This Alchemy system, however... Honestly, whoever set the rates on this stuff seems to be very out of touch with how Gaia itself works. Not just the economy, but the community and site as a whole. There should have been a big red flag at even the suggestion of using ANY items of purposely limited quantity. That is, limited release items such as RIG items, which seem to be part of various formulas at the present time. Any item that can theoretically become "extinct" because there is no longer a real supply* should not be part of the Alchemy system. To go back to Fishing since it's the only other exchange system with Alchemy-esque exchanges (Was that a test run?), you used things like Unsightly Body Hair in exchanges. Nothing to do with Fishing, and it was limited supply, but the supply was still something that can be obtained forever. Not in mass quantities like most game items, but still something one can realistically obtain on their own. This is not so with RIGs.

There were some things done right with this, and some done wrong. On the right side of the scale, I see zOMG loot and Ink. I also see completed Fishing Exchange items and Gold Shop items. All of these things are available today and should be for the rest of Gaia's existence. Another key point that is good about it is that the user has control over how to obtain these items. The user can play these games for the most part and thus isn't required to purchase them from others in most scenarios.

Things done wrong, outside of what was already mentioned? Releasing this system without a reliable way to obtain the loot. Is DC really the best delivery method the great minds at HQ could come up with? I know you have some seriously creative people there, so why didn't they first reach out to what we already have? Fishing got an update, but there are a variety of colors and sizes of fish that could be used. Tokens could be used in things with bronze coloring. Credits could have been used in the Edwardian recolor stuff. Pinball has power-ups such as sticky paddles for goo, fishing net for anything with lace, etc. ELF has various voltage type power-ups. Towns has flowers, bugs, and paper in numerous colors. zOMG has over 90 kinds of loot, before you even touch event loot, yet so few were represented. While I understand that not everything we have on the site works for whatever was planned here in this initial release, why are there essentially "only" rare things being used in these recipes? We have tons of game items that are begging for a use, and instead dozens of new, rare, mostly unreleased game items were created to be a part of the system.

Next, regarding balance, I'd like to point you to S1mbo's post on the first page of this thread. Let's forget for just a second that these are rare drops that require people to apparently browse unprotected by adblock. Calculations for some of these show 26,460 total required items to make the top tier one. Really? REALLY? Did someone really not run the numbers on this stuff before giving it an okay? Now let's throw in the fact that these items are essentially like Daily Chance rare items. I think someone "dun goofed" on their math here. I would think recolors of these ad viewing items should be requiring one of the other colors along with various color changing game loot, such as ink. A very good example of a Formula well done is, well, any KO shirt. The red one requires the following:

Qty. Item
1 Tsunami KO Classic Shirt
1 Shark's Blood
10 Red Ink

That's it. The common one that you can purchase from the gold shops, one of these essentially non-existent new loots, and 10 red ink. THAT is a good example of how a Formula should work. Obviously everything shouldn't be so cheap and easy, but things should not be containing finite supply items either.

Finally, a fail rate. I don't even know where to start with this. Fail rates are just horrible, seriously. I don't play RIGs because I don't support random chance. I don't purchase them, even to sell. As such, fail rates just add a whole 'nother level of "wtf?" to this for me. I'm the kind of guy who can and does fail 80-90% success rate enhancements in other games 3 times in a row. When we get to 60%? Psh, I might as well just give up, as I ritually fail 5+ times there. Knowing Gaia's obsession for insane rarity and the general lack of understanding of balance (also evidenced by this feature, unfortunately), I don't expect things even labeled "medium" to have a decent success rate.

We are supposed to use this system to eventually get to back wings? I've known for years that the old promises of it being a long, arduous quest that everyone could eventually complete were unlikely to be fulfilled. However, this seems to be the nail in the coffin for that. This is not a long, arduous quest. This is a long, arduous gamble based on funding and luck. As such, I can't really appreciate this feature very much right now. Great, great idea Gaia, but it needs a whole lot of balancing.

*Crafting the RIG that an item comes from is not real supply, as you cannot guarantee or realistically farm this due to the inherent issues with the Alchemy system.
Shadow Coon II's avatar

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My only complaint about the system so far is that you're required to use old chance items to make just about everything. Creating an exchange system that requires the use of items that technically have finite numbers is fairly unwise. I wouldn't mind having to play zOMG or any other games in order to obtain various ingredients/components to make items, but having to quest old items that people got in RIGs to use this system makes me feel uneasy.

I'm hoping that you fix this so that you don't require the use of RIG items for those potential recolors (like requiring one of the incredibly rare Kitten Stars for that Rainbow Kitten Star in the announcement). The alchemy feature should be something that is accessible to everyone within reason. It shouldn't be easy, but it shouldn't be nearly as hard as people worry that it may end up being based on how it is currently.
user18527761's avatar

Shameless Enabler

This is a fantastic idea, and a great way to release recolours, but the system is quite unbalanced as it stands.

There should be a way other than Daily Chance to acquire the new basic materials needed to do alchemy.
I've been trying to get these items since they first appeared a week or so ago, and have gotten not a one, let alone the multiples needed to craft items.
Not to mention, there are so many different items that, even were I to get one a day, I'd still be far from completing a formula. I love the variety, but winning these items only through DC and giftboxes, with the chances of scoring one being so very low, is rough.
Then again, we may be able to acquire these items in other ways - I wouldn't know, the announcement never outlined where we were to get them.

I think using rare items to craft others is neat, but the quantities required to craft are just outrageous.
I don't believe there are even 20 "Magenta Bedouin Skirt"s in existence, and yet a single user is expected to gather that number of them, in addition to 40 more skirts in other colours, just to craft a single white skirt. When the method of gathering these skirts is taken into account - through rare once-daily ad grants - the formula becomes even more absurd. I understand that the resulting items are supposed to take time, effort, and lots of gold to create, but when the ingredients do not exist in the required quantities (and likely never will under current distribution methods) it just doesn't work. Users are turned off by it, become uninterested, and will abandon this feature quickly.

The recolours are all lovely and desirable, the all-new items are simply gorgeous, everyone wants them and so that's why those who are complaining are complaining - they don't feel they can get the items. Should there be super duper hard-to-craft items? Sure.
But they shouldn't all be that way. The little starter kit item was brilliant, and crafting difficulty should gradate from there.

As anyone can see, an enormous amount of effort went into this, so I'm eager to see what - if any - changes will be made to better suit everyone. c:

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Stop Dont Believin's avatar

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I feel like gold shop items would be a better choice than old RIGs. Or even trash and bugs.
Can this be fixed?
Nissa chan's avatar

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Why couldn't it be tested before you released it. WHY?! ><;;... Could've avoided this giant MESS if did the usual pretesting and gathering feedback from SCAS.... Why....
It just seems like a giant waste of gold, and from all I'm seeing... It's going to ******** up the economy big time. This is making already hard to obtain items even rarer since users will be throwing large amounts of items away for one item. This is bad, really bad. Seeing users already inflating the recipe items up just depresses me greatly... I'm greatly contemplating just quitting Gaia. If this is really going to permanently be implemented and ruining the economy by artificially creating MORE rarity in items... It is not worth it. I'm even more devastated by this than by zOMG... Especially since this could have been avoided by TESTING it before launching it!!! ><;... Ugh.... -Rages.- Such a great system could have been implemented... But this...Is just horrible. u_u;
I hope I'm just horribly misunderstanding this system... But... A recipe costing not just one, but like 5-20 of an already rare-ish to very rare and expensive item... And then those items just disappear/get eaten up to make that ONE item???? Ugh... @_@;... I'm logging off, hoping this will all be gone or fix itself when I come back...
--Atonal Safetypin--'s avatar

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This is an interesting idea. That being said, nothing works.

1) No system that requires multiples of items valued at a million + is going to work for one simple reason. As prices inflate, there will be fewer and fewer people who can make the item, thereby lessening the use of the system. Now if there were one or two recipies like that it would be ok, but every single recipie is like this. Thus, this is a useless feature. Even a veteran of the site like myself will not use this. If someone like me will not use this, this will never be used.

Make it like the ink system.

If you use junk items for most of the recipes, or can make ingredients with simple items the way bugs turn into ink which turns into tattoos, the system will be more usable. You are also not taking advantage of the random stuff already build into the existing framework. All those bugs, branches and unused event items? You should give me a use for them.

You can also utilize Zomg to help ease this shift. Shake up the monster drops so they give alchemy components as well as the normal stuff. Have higher level monsters drop bigger items that get used in other stuff. DON'T USE ITEMS THAT CANNOT BE FOUND ANYWHERE BUT THE MARKETPLACE! Inflation is enough of a b***h without items going out of existence because you need 10 of them for a chance at a random item.
Taka nackie's avatar

Timely Gawker

I have looked around for over an hour for ingredients that are not obnoxiously expensive. And some of the new ones too. Seriously. I even went to old parts of gaia that I doubt people even use anymore. Like the world map for example. I thought: Hmmm...where would I find shark blood?" So I decided to check the world map by the water areas. And nope, no item there. or zOMG with the land sharks and whatnot. no luck there either.

Another one is the honey liqueur. The only thing I can think of at the moment that even relates to that is the Queen Bee MC. But hows that suppose to help? I mean sure, there are other ways too. like the Valefor Acedemy: Brew Mastery. Could be one of the random items. But who in their right minds would be willing to fork out nearly 30k and have a high chance of not getting the item you want?

So what? are we just expected to hang around gaia and poof! An item is in our inventory like those cookies I seem to be getting at least once or twice a day? Are they gonna magically appear out of thin air like the magic gift boxes and trunks? or do we actually have to make the items using smaller items that are in abundance only to have those sky rocket in price to the point where this whole process is just a waste of time and not worth doing at all?

So my point is, I think this is a great idea to have overall. However, it was not thought out fully and needs a lot of tweaking before I am willing to spend anymore of my time and/or money on it.
Poshul's avatar

Feral Seeker

My recipe idea:

20x Faust's Bottle
20x Pistolera's Revenge
100 billion gold
CakeColour's avatar

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Stop Dont Believin
I feel like gold shop items would be a better choice than old RIGs. Or even trash and bugs.
Can this be fixed?

totally agree with this emotion_kirakira
Goodbye123451's avatar

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This relies heavily on cash shop items and is adding to inflation. I don't like this at all. I'm sorry gaia, but this is too much.
Evo Everlasting's avatar

Shirtless Sex Symbol

Is there any other way to get the items other than the Marketplace? I can find the item i need but theres no listings, help?
frankly lisa's avatar


Items that were once very cheap on the marketplace are now going to skyrocket. Great neutral

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