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marshmallowcreampie's avatar

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fuiuchi
Almandaragal
I think people are being a little overly harsh with the whole wing quality comments, personally. To me, the quality on them is good. Like was already stated, they are definitely RIG item quality, maybe 499 or 749 cash quality when compared with the kind of stuff and pricing we already have. The whole "omg the positioning is horrible" and "these are neck wings, not back wings" stuff seems to be more derived from the fact that they are stupidly difficult to obtain, thus breaking the Backwings Promiseā„¢ so much so that people are (rightly) furious over them.

I think it's silly to assume that every criticism of the wings is sour grapes. I could probably afford all of them if I wanted them and I'm still criticizing them for the perspective issues. It's not as if poor perspective on items is uncommon on Gaia, and it's not as if the artists are not aware of the problem. In fact, they have acknowledged the problem and said that they are not going to do anything about it because they prefer quantity over quality. That excuse doesn't fly here, because these are the backwings that we've been waiting 9 years for, and considering the cost of the wings and how long we had to wait for them, hell yes I expected proper perspective.

You're right, they're 499/749 cash quality. That's 800k, though, not hundreds of millions.


Pretty much this. The wings ARE nice... But are they really worth the months of working and the possibly hundreds of millions of gold to get them? We have a lot of wonderful items on this site that I'm sure took the artists a long time, items with lots of detail and fabulous shading. Overgrown Cathedral is one of the loveliest backgrounds on this site, the item looks AMAZING. It's about 500k on the MP, more expensive than most background items but still obtainable to most users. If Overgrown Cathedral was dropped enough to have a 500k price tag, well, what makes these backwings so amazing that they'll literally only be available for a few users to have? (considering not just the crafting and component prices, but the rarity of the components themselves as well as the extreme rarity of the recipe itself)
Gtsluvr
User Image ..<.. I may be a 1 inch tall bugman but my love is as big as the world. I don't mind if you squish me but first let me see your "sole" ^///^

I know you guys will get a kick out of this one...

Currently I'm working on Angelic Quest formula. I'm at level 10. I'm ready to move on to the 11th formula. The only thing stopping me from moving on is the craft cost. 1 mil per attempt and low odds. Well I figured, not too bad if it only fails once or maybe 3 times tops.

So far, I have failed 15 times and counting.

I'm just 2 more fails away from tying the most fails recorded out here. (I'm sure you all remember the Aurora Kitten failure situation recently)

Yes, so far I've had 15 million spent and I'm still stuck at the 10th formula. The kicker? 12mil of that is already BORROWED and I can't ask for any more; I also have to pay them back eventually too. Right now I'm stuck and can't move on. I'm not a rich vendor or have stacks of items to sell or gold to keep throwing at the craft attempts The only thing I have going for me is my tank. If not for that and outside help, I probably would still be stuck some levels back.

I have a donation/charity thread going but the amount of help I receive, while very helpful, leaves me stuck where I am due to the gold drought. (I don't get many gold donations... sweatdrop )

As for right now, I'm broke again and don't know when I'll be able to attempt next. I've already borrowed as much as I could from my friends and... I'm just spent. User Image

My god. I am so so sorry.
God this disgusts me.

It really is one step forward and two steps back with this process, isnt it?
I really thought we had made some huge breakthrough and things were getting better, measurably and noticeably better...

And then this :/
The success rate should NOT be this low. Every attempt you make should somehow increase the odds of success for the next attempted crafting... or just make them high success rate to begin with, since getting the components and formulas is so expensive as it is.

Expensive components + expensive crafting cost = High success rate
Cheapo components + cheap crafting cost = Lower success rate
It just makes sense! People are more willing to spend 1600 gold attempting to craft something 16 times than 16,000,000 gold. Plus your level affects your success rate, so a high level alchemist could easily craft lower leveled recipes if they so desired.

I guess I really got my hopes up, but it is clear we still have a ways to go with this..
Almandaragal's avatar

Jeering Gaian

A.D.1492
Almandaragal

But I think the main issue is in what is considered to be 'doable for general, dedicated Gaian'.
Lets take for example rare fish masks. They are expensive. Rare fish are rare.
But every user on Gaia has an opportunity to get one -small fish by fish, upgrading to medium, upgrading to large, upgrading to rare, exchanging colour.
It doesn't mean everybody will have the desire, the time, the patience. Most people don't.
But they have the theoretical chance.

Snipping a little, just as a heads up.

I think this is indeed part of the issue for staff as well. Most are out of touch as to what is possible for someone who doesn't have a special skill or the real money to bankroll their account. The definition would differ from user to user as you and I have demonstrated as well. To me, Rare fish are sorta reasonable when they are just left in the area they come from. I think they should be a bit more common, since I subscribe to the "crap should be available, who cares about really high rarity even if it devalues my stuff" view, but they're doable. But to throw something that expensive and tedious into and already expensive and tedious quest just feels like insult to injury, you know? I know, we'll probably continue to have different views, but I just kind of feel that it's too much for something that was promised to be doable for most.

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Mitsumi-chan
Those are fine. Lol Rubyback Lion Fish and Demonfly being stupidly rare. Grey Body Dye isn't that bad either. They're not that hard to buy. I can understand the complaint of the D*C items since those get rotated out... maybe have those items permanently stay on the shop. Other than that, it's whatever.

Well, thank you for showing me again that you've not likely tried to obtain such things, or done the math for what it takes to obtain such things via grinding as opposed to gold. Everything is not based around gold, and simply because something is "just" 2 mil or whatever does not mean that it is by any means easy to get. You keep focusing on "hard to buy", and forget that the quest was promised to be about effort, not gold. That's a large part of the issue here for many people. These things are very, very tedious to create.

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Adamen
Don't worry the nightmare neck scarf regenerates, it just has a low drop rate which is why it's rare.

If you have a question as to the origins of an item Q&A is helpful.

Thanks, I had no idea where it came from. Nice to know it's still being generated, though that presents a new issue in that they obviously are not being generated very fast at all. Something required for a quest meant for everyone should not be sitting at 2 mil, methinks.

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Opera Phantomess
Do not get me started on the crafting cost. It is even worse with the chance of success being low or very low and you need at least one million gold for four formulas. Only the wealthiest on site can afford all of that without batting an eye.

Since we mostly agree on the items (I feel relying on HQ for the crowns to drop in RIGs is another dose of "too much luck" syndrome), I'll snip that.

Yes, it seems that "low" chance on a level 10 formula means "lol spend 5+ mil to succeed" at the least. As far as I'm concerned, unacceptable. It seems one will spend more on failed crafts than the components at that point of the quest, and the cost is already insane as I've outlined. Not cool.

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fuiuchi
I think it's silly to assume that every criticism of the wings is sour grapes. I could probably afford all of them if I wanted them and I'm still criticizing them for the perspective issues. It's not as if poor perspective on items is uncommon on Gaia, and it's not as if the artists are not aware of the problem. In fact, they have acknowledged the problem and said that they are not going to do anything about it because they prefer quantity over quality. That excuse doesn't fly here, because these are the backwings that we've been waiting 9 years for, and considering the cost of the wings and how long we had to wait for them, hell yes I expected proper perspective.

You're right, they're 499/749 cash quality. That's 800k, though, not hundreds of millions.

I didn't say it was sour grapes. I said that I feel that it is/was a little harsh. Still do. That's my opinion, and I don't feel that yours is any less valuable simply because I may feel you are being a slight bit harsh. I'm well aware of the perspective issues, and various others. Using a male base who doesn't like body mods, I'm EXTREMELY aware of the various flaws in perspective and such.

Are the wings worth the effort? Not even if the perspectives were fixed, so to me the slight perspective issue isn't a huge sticking point.I could still enjoy the wings with their slight tilt, so I still find the item desirable. Worth the seeming couple hundred million price tag? Nah, but I'm still gathering info on the off chance that Gaia's bandaids do enough to make things possible, or they actually go ahead and fix the quests. Should they be proper perspective? I think so, but as you noted, things are done to push them out faster, not to necessarily be perfect. I can live with that. For me the main issue is the whole principle and complete lack of understanding in regards to balance on Gaia by those who pushed the system. Basically, my focus in terms of Backwings is more just on another part of it than you.
A.D.1492's avatar

Precious Cat

Mitsumi-chan
Those are fine. Lol Rubyback Lion Fish and Demonfly being stupidly rare. Grey Body Dye isn't that bad either. They're not that hard to buy. I can understand the complaint of the D*C items since those get rotated out... maybe have those items permanently stay on the shop. Other than that, it's whatever.


The issue with the Dye and Ruby is not the price tag. [it is, but not the biggest]

When I quested for the ruby mask, I started the quest with enough gold to buy either all the rares or enough large fish to make them. But I couldn't just go in and buy those fish as I found out. The supply is limited to people fishing in Durem which is few. They have their own quests. They help their friends quests. They prefer to sell fish to other fishers. There are few people questing rares at any given time. Check the number of listing for boldurs in the market.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking after these grey dyes are destroyed for wings, others will be slow in making and expensive. Bugs are wanted for caches, and especially blue ones are slow to collect and expensive to buy.

...bottom line, more demand than supply for some game items, not always easy to overcome with gold.
eusheeta of CR's avatar

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I personally like these cheapo wings more than I do most the new ones.
Dorian_Archer's avatar

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eusheeta
I personally like these cheapo wings more than I do most the new ones.


Couldn't agree with you more. I have the ones you are wearing and use them alot as well as the ones I am currently wearing.

I also just love the Flight of the Macaw that I wear quite a lot. Comes in 4 different color schemes so I can wear them with just about anything. They are actual wings that are attached to my shoulderblades and not my neck. Perspective is good for each pose total of 8/2 ea color combo, and it also gives me the tail feathers.

I quested for them. Took me a while since I do get sidetracked by shiny objects like a magpie. But, I didn't have to destroy any rare item like from Dri C, or a Cash shop item or grind so many bugs and stuff. Even got a bit of a discount since they were cheaper then when I first started my quest. *laughs*

All in all, I think I made out better on the whole deal of backwings.
eusheeta of CR's avatar

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Dorian_Archer
eusheeta
I personally like these cheapo wings more than I do most the new ones.


Couldn't agree with you more. I have the ones you are wearing and use them alot as well as the ones I am currently wearing.

I also just love the Flight of the Macaw that I wear quite a lot. Comes in 4 different color schemes so I can wear them with just about anything. They are actual wings that are attached to my shoulderblades and not my neck. Perspective is good for each pose total of 8/2 ea color combo, and it also gives me the tail feathers.

I quested for them. Took me a while since I do get sidetracked by shiny objects like a magpie. But, I didn't have to destroy any rare item like from Dri C, or a Cash shop item or grind so many bugs and stuff. Even got a bit of a discount since they were cheaper then when I first started my quest. *laughs*

All in all, I think I made out better on the whole deal of backwings.


Yeah, Flight of the Macaw is awesome, I wear the black/white set on occasion. I love wings and have rocked many a pair, but I'm not willing ot go through all the hoops for the new ones they've put out. It's just ridiculous. Shame too. Been waiting years for new backwings.
Gtsluvr
User Image ..<.. I may be a 1 inch tall bugman but my love is as big as the world. I don't mind if you squish me but first let me see your "sole" ^///^

I know you guys will get a kick out of this one...

Currently I'm working on Angelic Quest formula. I'm at level 10. I'm ready to move on to the 11th formula. The only thing stopping me from moving on is the craft cost. 1 mil per attempt and low odds. Well I figured, not too bad if it only fails once or maybe 3 times tops.

So far, I have failed 15 times and counting.

I'm just 2 more fails away from tying the most fails recorded out here. (I'm sure you all remember the Aurora Kitten failure situation recently)
Actually 16 is not the most. I've heard of numerous fail rates within the 20-30 range and they were not glitched. Not sure if I have heard a higher 1 mil craft range fail rate, but the fail rate you are experiencing can very easily keep going up. It frustrates me that despite bringing this issue up from day one, nothing has been done. =/
The Zorya's avatar

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15 million is a lot for empty promise. Maybe lowering the cost gradually with every failed attempt might be easier on peoples pixel pockets?
Opera Phantomess's avatar

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Krissim Klaw
It frustrates me that despite bringing this issue up from day one, nothing has been done. =/

Masquerade! Paper faces on parade. Masquerade!


That is because Gaia refuses to take out that cotton and built-up wax in its ears as it attempts to listen through a titanium-infused steel wall a mile thick. I really do not expect to see any changes to the crafting costs and failing issues until 2050.


Hide your face so the world will never find you.
Kain-Senpai's avatar

Magical Gaian

so wait, I've read the entire first post and it doesn't mention any specific item? what's the problem here?
Andromeda Phoenix's avatar

Shy Sentai

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Bad thread! You're not allowed to fall to the second page! *kick*

@OP is awesome: Wings = Full size, legit Angelic & Demonic backwings. The ones we were supposed to get from the "quest system" that would make them available for everyone to get. The ones users have been waiting for since the days of 2k3...2k4...

The alchemy feature was released with the intention of only being used by 3% of gaia's userbase. As a result alchemy requires/required crazy amounts of luck and just as much if not more gold and Gaia Cash to participate in. This wouldn't be a problem except alchemy released a lot of heavily requested items, including these wings. So, OP and others, like myself, are semi-working with the staff behind alchemy (because these guys like their rare items and believe that the only thing that gives an item worth is rarity, 'cause apparently [sarcasm] no one on this site actually wants an item because they actually like it and only purchases items because they can sell them for gold to make a profit once their rarity jumps up more than it started out as [/sarcasm] ), to see if we can convince them to make alchemy a more accessible feature to the other 97% of the site. Just to sum it up. Or something like that. ^^;
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Krissim Klaw
Gtsluvr
User Image ..<.. I may be a 1 inch tall bugman but my love is as big as the world. I don't mind if you squish me but first let me see your "sole" ^///^

I know you guys will get a kick out of this one...

Currently I'm working on Angelic Quest formula. I'm at level 10. I'm ready to move on to the 11th formula. The only thing stopping me from moving on is the craft cost. 1 mil per attempt and low odds. Well I figured, not too bad if it only fails once or maybe 3 times tops.

So far, I have failed 15 times and counting.

I'm just 2 more fails away from tying the most fails recorded out here. (I'm sure you all remember the Aurora Kitten failure situation recently)
Actually 16 is not the most. I've heard of numerous fail rates within the 20-30 range and they were not glitched. Not sure if I have heard a higher 1 mil craft range fail rate, but the fail rate you are experiencing can very easily keep going up. It frustrates me that despite bringing this issue up from day one, nothing has been done. =/

No one should have to fail that many times.
MistressMinako's avatar

Girl-Crazy Man-Lover

Lanzer claims the payout for lite fish changed last week...

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