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Rya Dracosin

I rarely take apart people's posts anymore because I realize HOW HARD IT IS TO RESPOND.


The reason I took apart your post was because of how you choose to organize it into different points that weren't necessarily connected to one another. In theory, it was a rant, and I responded to your rant like I'd respond to any rant. I'll also deconstruct this one because of how it's organized. It helps with clarity for other users reading as well.

Quote:
However.....
If Zomg is losing more members over time, it's because lack of updates, lack of new things. NEW things are what bring people in. Constant refreshed content is WHAT keep people playing. Not the same ol same ol. Sure you'll go and replay a game because it was fun.


Except zOMG! was receiving an influx of updates, more than many other features. It was even receiving advertising, but it was not giving Gaia a return on their investment. The solution is not to throw more money at it and hope it finally does issue a return. That is a horrible business strategy.


Quote:
And who's to say it was the devs lying? Do you know for a fact, or do you just blindly follow the site around. Would you believe Walmart is still in it for the good of the people, and that the employees are just sore losers because they have to work? I'm just questioning if you're just putting all your eggs in on one side. Maybe that's how I'm coming off as well. However, I know I don't know honestly who to trust anymore. So both sides are wary on my part. It's pushing me farther and farther from this site...


Logic says the devs are lying. I do know this for a fact, because their promises of, "if you spend enough money on zOMG!, it will be fine!" Were not true. Those statements were ONLY made by the developers in zOMG!, not by the other Gaia staff. In fact, everything the Gaia staff have been saying is contrary to this. I don't understand your analogy at all. This doesn't have to do with Gaia being "sore losers", it has to do with the users not wanting to come to terms with zOMG! being a fail project.

Quote:
Gaia is NOT giving straight answers. They are beating around the bush. They say zomg is not profitable, however, another person said they were profitable for the time they put in. Just because a corporation says one thing, and a person within the corporation says another, doesn't mean they're both right or both wrong, or one is wrong and the other is right. Instead of giving a DIRECT response, they're beating around the bush. At least, that's how I'm viewing it. Numbers speak louder than the word "profitable".


Except Gaia as a company is not beating around the bush. They said zOMG! was issuing a 1 in 5 return for the ad revenue spent, and that the number of users was declining more rapidly than the number of users joining.

There are a few employees that are beating around the bush; the employees being the ones working in zOMG!. I've already pointed out that Gaia as a company HAS made a stance, but a few lone developers decided to blindly defend zOMG! and inflame the userbase, convincing them Gaia had lied to them. Just because you work for a company does not mean that everything you say has merit. In fact, what merit does Swarf have to talk about zOMG!'s revenue at all? The developers aren't in charge of site financing.

Quote:
Tell me how the zomg devs should be fired. Why in god's creation would they try and put their jobs on the line for a game that everyone else says is tanking, when they could get pushed on to another project that might do better? For the love of god, make that make any sense whatsoever.


They lied to the userbase about zOMG!'s funding and feasibility, riled everyone up about it being closed down, and then decided to essentially call all the other staff "liars" after the ATA. How's that for a reason to fire an employee?

Quote:
However, I'm finished with this in this thread. Before I become a rageaholic. And before you tell me to stop overreacting or chill out cuz it's only the internet... It's still a part of my life. I take internet life as seriously as real life. It's just how I am. ^_^;



I didn't say to stop over-reacting because it's the internet. I'm telling you to stop over-reacting because you're blindly defending the developers who lied to you in the first place. You just don't want to admit the news your hearing isn't in your favor.

Though if you take the internet as seriously as real life, I guess that says a lot anyways.


It might be easier for users to read, however, it's harder to respond. You can number them, and place appropriate numbers for the responses, that can work the same way, i wouldn't mind that.

I would rather see actual factual numbers, over ratios, and such. They also need to address why users are leaving. Surveys. Something. They're not doing their part to keep this going. They're not trying to figure out where they went wrong, before hopping on to another project.

However, How am i supposed to believe a corporation who's in it for profits and money making over a developer who actually cares about the users? I've been burned one too many times regarding businesses and such. *shrugs*

And my overreacting is because someone's lying, and I have a tendancy to believe an individual before I will a business operation. Especially if they're someone with something to lose.
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Rya Dracosin


It might be easier for users to read, however, it's harder to respond. You can number them, and place appropriate numbers for the responses, that can work the same way, i wouldn't mind that.

I would rather see actual factual numbers, over ratios, and such. They also need to address why users are leaving. Surveys. Something. They're not doing their part to keep this going. They're not trying to figure out where they went wrong, before hopping on to another project.

However, How am i supposed to believe a corporation who's in it for profits and money making over a developer who actually cares about the users? I've been burned one too many times regarding businesses and such. *shrugs*

And my overreacting is because someone's lying, and I have a tendancy to believe an individual before I will a business operation. Especially if they're someone with something to lose.


Honestly, I think the way I responded is fine ._. It's not uncommon for people to respond that way, and even many of the staff will do that. The numbering seems silly.

The ratios are factual numbers xP If you're looking for extensive statistical data about zOMG! being closed down, they still might still be compiling it, or simply feel it's not really necessary to release. Especially since that's often confidential information.

You're supposed to believe the entirety of the rest of the staff over one disgruntled employee. Especially when that one employee has all but retracted every single one of his statements. I expect he'll be retracting a lot more, considering the damage he's done.

You know that Gaia is a collection of individuals working there, right? You believing everything Swarf has said is naive. He simply doesn't have the information to make the statements he's made. Entirety of the rest of the staff > Disgruntled employee that will do anything to keep this project he's been working on.
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Rya Dracosin


It might be easier for users to read, however, it's harder to respond. You can number them, and place appropriate numbers for the responses, that can work the same way, i wouldn't mind that.

I would rather see actual factual numbers, over ratios, and such. They also need to address why users are leaving. Surveys. Something. They're not doing their part to keep this going. They're not trying to figure out where they went wrong, before hopping on to another project.

However, How am i supposed to believe a corporation who's in it for profits and money making over a developer who actually cares about the users? I've been burned one too many times regarding businesses and such. *shrugs*

And my overreacting is because someone's lying, and I have a tendancy to believe an individual before I will a business operation. Especially if they're someone with something to lose.


Honestly, I think the way I responded is fine ._. It's not uncommon for people to respond that way, and even many of the staff will do that. The numbering seems silly.

The ratios are factual numbers xP If you're looking for extensive statistical data about zOMG! being closed down, they still might still be compiling it, or simply feel it's not really necessary to release. Especially since that's often confidential information.

You're supposed to believe the entirety of the rest of the staff over one disgruntled employee. Especially when that one employee has all but retracted every single one of his statements. I expect he'll be retracting a lot more, considering the damage he's done.

You know that Gaia is a collection of individuals working there, right? You believing everything Swarf has said is naive. He simply doesn't have the information to make the statements he's made. Entirety of the rest of the staff > Disgruntled employee that will do anything to keep this project he's been working on.



D: I didn't mean to make you feel bad about it, i was just offering a solution. I just can't really remove my own quotes as easy to condense it. It's nice to read, but kind of confusing for myself. x.x

And I know they said that they prolly wouldn't release exact numbers, because of confidentiality, but a grouped amount of numbers like (takes $x to pay for the salaries and benefits of the workers on the game, takes $x for servers and other hardware/software, however, those who play zomg are only bringing in $x). Also, they need to conduct cash shop surveys. For everyone who either puts 10$ on their account or earns a combined 10$ (it keeps track), a survey asking if they play zomg. Why or why not. Completely anonymous (aka no user information sent except the survey itself). And maybe asking about the other games, or other various things that require a hefty amount of money to fund. Find out what the paying users are using. Find out if the paying users would still pay if they weren't able to use whatever feature.

They're not really doing all they can in that front, and it really bothers me.

Also, a group of people may have different answers than each individual people. Individual people may be less intimidated by others within the group, and can provide their own views, while in a group, they might be saying "well, while it's like this, we should say it like this".

So yeah, i believe individual statements over group statements, because usually, individual statements are done so without intimidation or the like (even if it's not on purpose). I know I wouldn't say things, even if they were facts, if the group I was in didn't want to say them. However, as an individual, I would say such things, because I don't have to worry about them getting mad at me until after I've said it. If that makes sense....
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The problem arises when they decide to outright lie about the status of zOMG! in an attempt to appease it's users who are not pleased with the lack of attention/updates. Saying that zOMG is in red numbers and that in order to save it people need to buy this or that, all the way knowing their intention from the beginning was to abandon zOMG! no matter what the users did, is a terrible business practice I can't agree with. If your intention is to leave zOMG to embark in other new projects, say so from the start, don't mislead people while milking as much cash as you can from them.
is that the fault of gaia or some of the developers of zomg?

sounds like a lot of people weren't being honest all around if you ask me


          I think it's more on the side of the zOMG developers because they kept telling the zOMG community things the rest of us were never told until one member of that community went through the GCD and/or SF crying like Chicken Little. And really I do think it goes back to the days of Qixter with how he built this close buddy buddy remove the line between company rep and gamer hero relationship with the forum that JK and swarf tried so hard to continue after he was gone. Why only tell one forum over the rest of the entire site is my question.

Imo, it's really no different than having the ATA in the GCD. Does that mean the admins are only telling that info to GCDers and no one else? To me, it makes sense to have info about zOMG given out in the zForum because that the forum for discussion about zOMG, just as it makes sense to have the ATA in the GCD because that's the main forum for discussion about Gaia.

I do agree that any info that comes out from zDevs now that the game's development has been cut should be taken with a grain of salt. That whole 'disgruntled employee spreading false dissent' angle may not be what's really happening, but people should be aware that it's a possibility.


          I'm not saying the thread should have been posted in here or the SF but there have been times when the developers are looking for info from the users or have news to tell them that is posted in another part of the site that they do link to in other forums. A good example is when a lot of people were experiencing very slow load times for the site. They posted a thread in the Bug Reports but they also posted in SF pointing people to that singular thread and even made a Dev Notice about it too. They've done that with other issues and matters of Feedback too. So if they can do that for general backend errors and informing about the future of features on the site that way then why couldn't they do it for zOMG?

          The thing the zOMG forum is having a hard time understanding is not everyone who played the game lived in that forum. Other people would have liked to have been told about the status of the developers and the game so they too could help out in any way possible. They may have gained a few more players and a few more dollars. There may have been more serious discussion on why things were going downhill for zOMG a lot sooner than that period starting in September of 2010 that a lot of people are using as their proof zOMG is "profitable". And apparently right now this whole situation is bringing into question just when the last developer was pulled off the game and placed on a new project and why if it was weeks ago why it didn't come out until it did to even the so called "only ones who care about the game."

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It might be easier for users to read, however, it's harder to respond. You can number them, and place appropriate numbers for the responses, that can work the same way, i wouldn't mind that.

I would rather see actual factual numbers, over ratios, and such. They also need to address why users are leaving. Surveys. Something. They're not doing their part to keep this going. They're not trying to figure out where they went wrong, before hopping on to another project.

However, How am i supposed to believe a corporation who's in it for profits and money making over a developer who actually cares about the users? I've been burned one too many times regarding businesses and such. *shrugs*

And my overreacting is because someone's lying, and I have a tendancy to believe an individual before I will a business operation. Especially if they're someone with something to lose.


Honestly, I think the way I responded is fine ._. It's not uncommon for people to respond that way, and even many of the staff will do that. The numbering seems silly.

The ratios are factual numbers xP If you're looking for extensive statistical data about zOMG! being closed down, they still might still be compiling it, or simply feel it's not really necessary to release. Especially since that's often confidential information.

You're supposed to believe the entirety of the rest of the staff over one disgruntled employee. Especially when that one employee has all but retracted every single one of his statements. I expect he'll be retracting a lot more, considering the damage he's done.

You know that Gaia is a collection of individuals working there, right? You believing everything Swarf has said is naive. He simply doesn't have the information to make the statements he's made. Entirety of the rest of the staff > Disgruntled employee that will do anything to keep this project he's been working on.



D: I didn't mean to make you feel bad about it, i was just offering a solution. I just can't really remove my own quotes as easy to condense it. It's nice to read, but kind of confusing for myself. x.x

And I know they said that they prolly wouldn't release exact numbers, because of confidentiality, but a grouped amount of numbers like (takes $x to pay for the salaries and benefits of the workers on the game, takes $x for servers and other hardware/software, however, those who play zomg are only bringing in $x). Also, they need to conduct cash shop surveys. For everyone who either puts 10$ on their account or earns a combined 10$ (it keeps track), a survey asking if they play zomg. Why or why not. Completely anonymous (aka no user information sent except the survey itself). And maybe asking about the other games, or other various things that require a hefty amount of money to fund. Find out what the paying users are using. Find out if the paying users would still pay if they weren't able to use whatever feature.

They're not really doing all they can in that front, and it really bothers me.

Also, a group of people may have different answers than each individual people. Individual people may be less intimidated by others within the group, and can provide their own views, while in a group, they might be saying "well, while it's like this, we should say it like this".

So yeah, i believe individual statements over group statements, because usually, individual statements are done so without intimidation or the like (even if it's not on purpose). I know I wouldn't say things, even if they were facts, if the group I was in didn't want to say them. However, as an individual, I would say such things, because I don't have to worry about them getting mad at me until after I've said it. If that makes sense....


There's really no need for a survey like that now. They'll find out if the paying users will keep paying now that it's not going to be receiving any more updates. How people answer poll questions and how they actually act also don't necessarily align. Gaia does take extensive measurements of how their users interact with the site, so polling them might be inefficient and a bit of a waste of resources.

Gaia can see without a doubt how effective it's marketing strategy on Facebook is, which is netting in millions of users, vs a fraction of that in zOMG!.

I also think you're mass generalizing. Just because someone makes a statement in a group doesn't mean it should be under a higher lever of scrutiny. In fact, the opposite is true.

E.g., if 99% of scientists propose global climate change is a threat, and one individual scientist digresses, we don't say, "Those other 99% are just acting on intimidation!"
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It might be easier for users to read, however, it's harder to respond. You can number them, and place appropriate numbers for the responses, that can work the same way, i wouldn't mind that.

I would rather see actual factual numbers, over ratios, and such. They also need to address why users are leaving. Surveys. Something. They're not doing their part to keep this going. They're not trying to figure out where they went wrong, before hopping on to another project.

However, How am i supposed to believe a corporation who's in it for profits and money making over a developer who actually cares about the users? I've been burned one too many times regarding businesses and such. *shrugs*

And my overreacting is because someone's lying, and I have a tendancy to believe an individual before I will a business operation. Especially if they're someone with something to lose.


Honestly, I think the way I responded is fine ._. It's not uncommon for people to respond that way, and even many of the staff will do that. The numbering seems silly.

The ratios are factual numbers xP If you're looking for extensive statistical data about zOMG! being closed down, they still might still be compiling it, or simply feel it's not really necessary to release. Especially since that's often confidential information.

You're supposed to believe the entirety of the rest of the staff over one disgruntled employee. Especially when that one employee has all but retracted every single one of his statements. I expect he'll be retracting a lot more, considering the damage he's done.

You know that Gaia is a collection of individuals working there, right? You believing everything Swarf has said is naive. He simply doesn't have the information to make the statements he's made. Entirety of the rest of the staff > Disgruntled employee that will do anything to keep this project he's been working on.



D: I didn't mean to make you feel bad about it, i was just offering a solution. I just can't really remove my own quotes as easy to condense it. It's nice to read, but kind of confusing for myself. x.x

And I know they said that they prolly wouldn't release exact numbers, because of confidentiality, but a grouped amount of numbers like (takes $x to pay for the salaries and benefits of the workers on the game, takes $x for servers and other hardware/software, however, those who play zomg are only bringing in $x). Also, they need to conduct cash shop surveys. For everyone who either puts 10$ on their account or earns a combined 10$ (it keeps track), a survey asking if they play zomg. Why or why not. Completely anonymous (aka no user information sent except the survey itself). And maybe asking about the other games, or other various things that require a hefty amount of money to fund. Find out what the paying users are using. Find out if the paying users would still pay if they weren't able to use whatever feature.

They're not really doing all they can in that front, and it really bothers me.

Also, a group of people may have different answers than each individual people. Individual people may be less intimidated by others within the group, and can provide their own views, while in a group, they might be saying "well, while it's like this, we should say it like this".

So yeah, i believe individual statements over group statements, because usually, individual statements are done so without intimidation or the like (even if it's not on purpose). I know I wouldn't say things, even if they were facts, if the group I was in didn't want to say them. However, as an individual, I would say such things, because I don't have to worry about them getting mad at me until after I've said it. If that makes sense....


There's really no need for a survey like that now. They'll find out if the paying users will keep paying now that it's not going to be receiving any more updates. How people answer poll questions and how they actually act also don't necessarily align. Gaia does take extensive measurements of how their users interact with the site, so polling them might be inefficient and a bit of a waste of resources.

Gaia can see without a doubt how effective it's marketing strategy on Facebook is, which is netting in millions of users, vs a fraction of that in zOMG!.

I also think you're mass generalizing. Just because someone makes a statement in a group doesn't mean it should be under a higher lever of scrutiny. In fact, the opposite is true.

E.g., if 99% of scientists propose global climate change is a threat, and one individual scientist digresses, we don't say, "Those other 99% are just acting on intimidation!"


Just so we're all clear, just in case, these are my own personal views. Any "we" or "us" i do speak about is all me.

And I'm fighting for zomg because i do NOT want gaia to be the next zynga. Because without the community input, without the fights for the games WE want HERE, not on facebook, that's where they'll go, because they'll go where it's more profitable, and we'll lose out here....

Also, it's not the 99% acting on intimidation, more like maybe 20 or 30% who've been "pursuaded" so much they just give up and follow with the majority. So when they step forward and tell their individual views..that's good, and I can trust that.

However, I suppose this can be told in a different way. Everyone has individual views. Some say it "could" be that climate change is a threat. Others however, call it global warming, but are grouped in with the "climate change". there are so many variables, and people just get thrown into whatever group they most fit in.

Maybe one developer saw increased profits from zomg during quarter A and quarter F. But another developer was looking at it, and saw decreased usage and profits during quarters A through F. However, instead of lookign at what happened during A and F, they're looking at the whole picture, and it's causing the future to look shaky. Because they'd rather not work on something, even though it CAN bring them profits, if they keep with it long enough...but meh...this is gaia...the ADD kid of the internet x.x
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Rya Dracosin


Just so we're all clear, just in case, these are my own personal views. Any "we" or "us" i do speak about is all me.

And I'm fighting for zomg because i do NOT want gaia to be the next zynga. Because without the community input, without the fights for the games WE want HERE, not on facebook, that's where they'll go, because they'll go where it's more profitable, and we'll lose out here....

Also, it's not the 99% acting on intimidation, more like maybe 20 or 30% who've been "pursuaded" so much they just give up and follow with the majority. So when they step forward and tell their individual views..that's good, and I can trust that.

However, I suppose this can be told in a different way. Everyone has individual views. Some say it "could" be that climate change is a threat. Others however, call it global warming, but are grouped in with the "climate change". there are so many variables, and people just get thrown into whatever group they most fit in.

Maybe one developer saw increased profits from zomg during quarter A and quarter F. But another developer was looking at it, and saw decreased usage and profits during quarters A through F. However, instead of lookign at what happened during A and F, they're looking at the whole picture, and it's causing the future to look shaky. Because they'd rather not work on something, even though it CAN bring them profits, if they keep with it long enough...but meh...this is gaia...the ADD kid of the internet x.x


The correct scientific term is global climate change. "Some" who say global warming are using a misnomer. Some areas of the world get hotter, and some colder with anthropocentric global climate change.

But I digress, what proof do you have that 20-30% have been "persuaded"? That number is seeming to come out of nowhere, unless you're saying Swarf and JK count for 20-30% of the staff members. confused

And they are looking at the whole picture, or they wouldn't be nixing a project that already cost them this much money. Swarf's statements (that have no basis) don't speak for the company. No matter what Gaia does, you guys are going to say zOMG could have been profitable if they did "x". The truth is, you have no idea.
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Imo, it's really no different than having the ATA in the GCD. Does that mean the admins are only telling that info to GCDers and no one else? To me, it makes sense to have info about zOMG given out in the zForum because that the forum for discussion about zOMG, just as it makes sense to have the ATA in the GCD because that's the main forum for discussion about Gaia.

I do agree that any info that comes out from zDevs now that the game's development has been cut should be taken with a grain of salt. That whole 'disgruntled employee spreading false dissent' angle may not be what's really happening, but people should be aware that it's a possibility.


          I'm not saying the thread should have been posted in here or the SF but there have been times when the developers are looking for info from the users or have news to tell them that is posted in another part of the site that they do link to in other forums. A good example is when a lot of people were experiencing very slow load times for the site. They posted a thread in the Bug Reports but they also posted in SF pointing people to that singular thread and even made a Dev Notice about it too. They've done that with other issues and matters of Feedback too. So if they can do that for general backend errors and informing about the future of features on the site that way then why couldn't they do it for zOMG?

          The thing the zOMG forum is having a hard time understanding is not everyone who played the game lived in that forum. Other people would have liked to have been told about the status of the developers and the game so they too could help out in any way possible. They may have gained a few more players and a few more dollars. There may have been more serious discussion on why things were going downhill for zOMG a lot sooner than that period starting in September of 2010 that a lot of people are using as their proof zOMG is "profitable". And apparently right now this whole situation is bringing into question just when the last developer was pulled off the game and placed on a new project and why if it was weeks ago why it didn't come out until it did to even the so called "only ones who care about the game."

I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.
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Imo, it's really no different than having the ATA in the GCD. Does that mean the admins are only telling that info to GCDers and no one else? To me, it makes sense to have info about zOMG given out in the zForum because that the forum for discussion about zOMG, just as it makes sense to have the ATA in the GCD because that's the main forum for discussion about Gaia.

I do agree that any info that comes out from zDevs now that the game's development has been cut should be taken with a grain of salt. That whole 'disgruntled employee spreading false dissent' angle may not be what's really happening, but people should be aware that it's a possibility.


          I'm not saying the thread should have been posted in here or the SF but there have been times when the developers are looking for info from the users or have news to tell them that is posted in another part of the site that they do link to in other forums. A good example is when a lot of people were experiencing very slow load times for the site. They posted a thread in the Bug Reports but they also posted in SF pointing people to that singular thread and even made a Dev Notice about it too. They've done that with other issues and matters of Feedback too. So if they can do that for general backend errors and informing about the future of features on the site that way then why couldn't they do it for zOMG?

          The thing the zOMG forum is having a hard time understanding is not everyone who played the game lived in that forum. Other people would have liked to have been told about the status of the developers and the game so they too could help out in any way possible. They may have gained a few more players and a few more dollars. There may have been more serious discussion on why things were going downhill for zOMG a lot sooner than that period starting in September of 2010 that a lot of people are using as their proof zOMG is "profitable". And apparently right now this whole situation is bringing into question just when the last developer was pulled off the game and placed on a new project and why if it was weeks ago why it didn't come out until it did to even the so called "only ones who care about the game."

I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.


I took the forum more as a place to ask for help with the game, or a place to find a crew or something. I always thought the more serious places would be SF or the like for serious announcements. I only stopped by the zomg forum when i felt there was a REASON to, or someone hinted, or linked.

Dev alerts, announcements, and other stuff would've gotten the word out better. Did zomg use the facebook page they have to their benefit? Did they actually try to reach out to all users?

Again, I fear, this is the common thing these days. Blame the users before the company. x.x (not syaing you're entirely doing that, but it's how it's coming off)
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Angelic Senshi

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I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.


          You really don't no that. None of us know that unless we truly know every single person who plays the game intimately. This is sounding like a lot of other people who claim and believe that only those who enter the zOMG forum are the only ones who care and would do whatever it took to save the game. In the last week we've been getting that a lot all over the site from people who spend all their time in the zOMG forum when they're not playing the game. They don't know that, you don't know that, and I don't know that. No one knows that except the individual people who play the game. And unless you ask them then you'll never know just who will open their wallets and who would just increase the time they play. Assuming only one forum has the right to care about something because it talks about it day in and day out is only going to start making the people who "live" in that forum look like elitists.

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Rya Dracosin
Hazelaar
I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.
I took the forum more as a place to ask for help with the game, or a place to find a crew or something. I always thought the more serious places would be SF or the like for serious announcements. I only stopped by the zomg forum when i felt there was a REASON to, or someone hinted, or linked.

Dev alerts, announcements, and other stuff would've gotten the word out better. Did zomg use the facebook page they have to their benefit? Did they actually try to reach out to all users?

Again, I fear, this is the common thing these days. Blame the users before the company. x.x (not saying you're entirely doing that, but it's how it's coming off)
I don't know, it may just be me, but if a feature has its own forum I'm generally going to think to go there first if I'm looking for news on it. Especially if it's something that's been around for a while. I want to see if anything new is happening with fishing? I'm going to the fishing forum. *shrug*

And what would a dev notice about this have been like? 'Hey, you guys need to start playing more and spending more money or it's not going to be profitable enough to possibly maybe get more updates, and even if you do there needs to be nothing more potentially profitable'? And then post that every month? Because that's essentially what the message has been for a long while.
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Chibi Halo
Hazelaar
I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.


          You really don't no that. None of us know that unless we truly know every single person who plays the game intimately. This is sounding like a lot of other people who claim and believe that only those who enter the zOMG forum are the only ones who care and would do whatever it took to save the game. In the last week we've been getting that a lot all over the site from people who spend all their time in the zOMG forum when they're not playing the game. They don't know that, you don't know that, and I don't know that. No one knows that except the individual people who play the game. And unless you ask them then you'll never know just who will open their wallets and who would just increase the time they play. Assuming only one forum has the right to care about something because it talks about it day in and day out is only going to start making the people who "live" in that forum look like elitists.

Did I not just say that you don't need to "live" there? Just check in once in a while. When there's been no updates in forever or when there was nothing for a holiday, maybe bother to ask why instead of waiting for the main site to search you out with the info? And no, I don't really know that a dev notice or random announcement would have had little effect, but neither do you really know that it would have made a difference. You said you thought it would, I was just saying I thought it wouldn't.
kandykahne's avatar

Generous Poster

I'll be honest with you, I didn't read the entire thread... I don't have time at the moment but I think it's important to say something in case no one else has...
Swarf didn't lie. That seems to be the general consensus of a lot of these posts here... He may, however, have unintentionally overlooked some other key components to the equation. He is a developer and a die hard zOMG lover both the game and the players. He may know a lot of the financial data involved but perhaps not all. I think at this point we need to see Swarf's posts as another example of his dedication to this game and the community involved.
Someone mentioned that Swarf was disgruntled because his project was cut. I'm sure Swarf was upset but to jeopardize his job by posting false accusations of his employer would be illogical at the very least. It wouldn't serve him or his project well.

Here's what I think we can be quite certain of at this point:
~Swarf, JK, s2b2, and the rest of the dev team are and have always been dedicated to the zOMG community. They have always stood by us and stood up for us whenever they can.
~Gaia isn't going to give us full disclosure on their finances, and rightly so. I wish they would at least admit that they shamelessly pumped us for money when they had already decided the fate of the game however I don't see why they should divulge financial details to us.
~Unfortunately, as it stands, zOMG is in "maintenance mode" from here out.

Other than that it's all speculation really. I already put my two cents on the issue here. Feel free to read it and refute me as you see fit.
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Angelic Senshi

Hazelaar
Did I not just say that you don't need to "live" there? Just check in once in a while. When there's been no updates in forever or when there was nothing for a holiday, maybe bother to ask why instead of waiting for the main site to search you out with the info? And no, I don't really know that a dev notice or random announcement would have had little effect, but neither do you really know that it would have made a difference. You said you thought it would, I was just saying I thought it wouldn't.


          You might believe that but the ones who consider themselves forum regulars in the zOMG forum are under the impression that only people who post, not lurk, in the zOMG forum are the only ones who care about the game and that outsiders shouldn't bother going in there because they'll just be driven out because they don't know the zOMG community. We're seeing such a divide amongst people who play for hours upon hours every day and those who play on the weekends for the bump to their gold amount and don't even step foot in the forum.

          I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on the issue of whether or not a quick announcement linking to a thread in the zOMG forum would make a real difference.

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Hazelaar
Chibi Halo
Hazelaar
I don't think it would have had that much of an effect, honestly. Yes, not everyone who played lived in the forum, but that doesn't mean you can't drop by from time to time. I only dropped in about once a month, read through archived dev chat stuff and some of the longer-running topics, then went my way, and it felt like I kept up with most of the news. But if people aren't involved enough with the game to keep an ear out for new info about it or drop by once in a blue moon, would they really be motivated enough to respond to dev notices asking for info or help protest a lack of "official" communication or updates? I honestly don't really think so.


          You really don't no that. None of us know that unless we truly know every single person who plays the game intimately. This is sounding like a lot of other people who claim and believe that only those who enter the zOMG forum are the only ones who care and would do whatever it took to save the game. In the last week we've been getting that a lot all over the site from people who spend all their time in the zOMG forum when they're not playing the game. They don't know that, you don't know that, and I don't know that. No one knows that except the individual people who play the game. And unless you ask them then you'll never know just who will open their wallets and who would just increase the time they play. Assuming only one forum has the right to care about something because it talks about it day in and day out is only going to start making the people who "live" in that forum look like elitists.

Did I not just say that you don't need to "live" there? Just check in once in a while. When there's been no updates in forever or when there was nothing for a holiday, maybe bother to ask why instead of waiting for the main site to search you out with the info? And no, I don't really know that a dev notice or random announcement would have had little effect, but neither do you really know that it would have made a difference. You said you thought it would, I was just saying I thought it wouldn't.


While I don't have to live there, chances are, I might never go there. I play with my avatar, and never go into the avatar subforums. I play in towns, and never visit a towns forum. I fish once in a while, and don't really go there either.

The problem with a lot of thinking is that if we play it, it must mean we use the forum for it. That's not always the case. Many people just don't enjoy certain forums, so never go there...

So how would I know that something's going on, if they don't make an announcement? How would I know what's going on, if I've already visited the forum, and don't intend to return for another month or so? My individual thinking is "If it's important, they'll make an announcement or dev alert notice about it".

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