Coming Soon: Site header redesign (UPDATED FIRST POST 7/1)

[The Emoholic]

gracewar7

After digesting this feedback and speaking to the various teams, here's what we will do before the first release: We will put PM notifications back in the bubble in the header.

In addition, we considered making changes to the footer based on your feedback. However, we realized that it's tough to evaluate something when you're not interacting with it and just looking at a mock (which someone pointed out is in pretty low resolution). We'd like to take a chance and release it, let it live and breathe a little bit. We'll be releasing it together with an official feedback thread with the announcement. Based on the feedback from the broader Gaia community, we will decide what to do next. There were great suggestions from you, including an option to turn it off or to hide/minimize it, etc. All of these will be considered - we'd simply like to gather more feedback post-launch when you've actually had a chance to try this.

282/750

Donate Please?...

Basically, we heard you saying you don't want us to implement it and make your browsers all crash, but we're going to do it anyways because we don't care what the people want, we're just money grubbing business people/people who want to make gaia the next facebook, even though nobody currently on gaia wants it to turn into facebook.
Glad to see you trying so hard. [/sarcasm]

...I'll Love You Forever!
16/750

[Lucidly]

Well, I'm glad you've read our opinions.

Since you are keen on releasing it soon, please please make sure we have the option to turn it off in the future. I want to close it and forget about it just like forum pulse. @_@

[Toxxyyy]

Hm.

So after reading the pages upon pages of nothing but negative feedback, ALL saying they didn't like it, and almost all saying absolutely NO to it, you're just going to release it anyway. Despite everyone's wishes and pleas to actually listen to us and what we want (because you were asking for our feedback and as to whether or not we actually like it).

I honestly don't see the point in you making this thread.
The footer and other changes will be made like you say, and they will stay. Just like everything else that is opposed by members yet implemented anyway.

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

I'm still not thrilled about a footer, but I'm glad we get to keep our bubbles, and I'm glad that you guys are looking at an "off" option for the footer. 3nodding

[Foxy Bandit]

I'm guessing who ever posted in favor of the floating footer must have REALLY INSPIRED the devs to gut it out and release the footer despite the VAST majority hating it.


edit: Like someone else mentioned before if you want broader feedback, make an announcement and link to this thread.

[AloysiusWeasley]

carbonphyber

I've been using the new header/footer for days now and I kind of like the footer.
No enable/disable toggle currently available.
I'd like a toggle also, but I think my preference would be a light-weight SITE, not just a light-weight header/footer. I'm hoping the http://www.gaiaonline.com/wap/ (mobile site) is opened to the general public, not just Verizon phones. It's bare-bones and snappy-fast.

...I really hope that option to disable it becomes available. I mean, from what I've been hearing the footers on other sites cause lag, and the LAST thing I need is for moar lag when I'm already trying to play Booty Grab, which...really needs to be streamlined, the amount of resources aquariums hogs is friggin' NUTS.

Light-weighting the site would be easy, as there's tons of unnecessary flashy s**t on here, and it would also be easier if we could *really* customize what siggies we see, as I'd be willing to bet my lag would lessen without having to load 650 trillion of those damn badges. *hates the badges*

Anyway, I'm hoping we can still keep the balloons up top, and that it doesn't turn out to be a major disaster. I'm confused as to why we're getting the thing in the first place, but I'm willing to hold off on lighting the torches and getting the fires going under the oil until we see how it looks when the kinks are worked out. 3nodding

[PinkFae15]

Lanzer

Trying to get Towns fixed still is our top priority

^That is from tonight's AtA.^

I don't believe that for a second because of this thread. If it were true this redesign would not be happening now(I rather it not happen at all) and towns should be allotted the majority of devs to get it done with.
The team doing this redesign sure is doing a great job at helping "the founders to realize their vision of a much more interactive and visually appealing header that will be more representative of the Gaia world." Lanzer is always out of the loop these days. I just wish gaia staff could get their stories straight and not give us users conflicting information.

[Valheita]

PinkFae15

Lanzer

Trying to get Towns fixed still is our top priority

^That is from tonight's AtA.^

I don't believe that for a second because of this thread. If it were true this redesign would not be happening now(I rather it not happen at all) and towns should be allotted the majority of devs to get it done with.
The team doing this redesign sure is doing a great job at helping "the founders to realize their vision of a much more interactive and visually appealing header that will be more representative of the Gaia world." Lanzer is always out of the loop these days. I just wish gaia staff could get their stories straight and not give us users conflicting information.

Uhh. The team working on towns is different from the team working on the site layout.

I dunno, seems to me that CSS wouldn't be much use to someone developing a flash app.

@OP: Glad to hear that you're being more cautious about the release.

[Cheeva Catkin]

Because, after nearly ten pages of posting you did not manage to answer my questions, I will do it myself (ellipsis have been used in order to edit out the spin or to denote when no answer has been given):

Cheeva Catkin

1 - Are you actually listening to our opinions? In the OP you ask us whether we loved it or hated it. We have given you our opinions, but are you really listening to them? Looking at the 24 pages of complaints and the two empty posts by yourself, gracewar, and the dev, I am going to be an a** an assume, no.

gracewar7

After digesting this feedback and speaking to the various teams ... We'd like to take a chance and release it, let it live and breathe a little bit.

Cheeva Catkin

2 - Why did you ask for our opinion after redesigning everything? If you truly wanted the opinions of the site users, and were going to listen to said opinions, would you not have waited until after you had tested the waters?

gracewar7

...

Cheeva Catkin

3 - Is the overwhelming negative response to the footer/redesign idea actually going to make a difference or are you going to foist it on us anyway?

gracewar7

The biggest concerns I seem to be hearing are:

1. You want to see your notifications, particularly PMs, up in the header as usual and not moving down to the footer.
   
2. You don't want a floating footer for a few reasons:
   
   • It is too Facebook-like and takes away from Gaia's identity.
     
   • You're worried about the lag.
     
   • You're concerned about the space it will take up at the bottom of the page and the fact that it follows you everywhere on the site.

After digesting this feedback and speaking to the various teams ... We'd like to take a chance and release it, let it live and breathe a little bit.

Cheeva Catkin

4 - You claim that the map is being removed due to it causing lag, yet the overwhelming response of the users suggests that a footer will make just as much if not more of a lag issue. So, do you have a response to this? Are you truly removing the map because of lag or is it just another weak excuse to ignore user opinions and imlement whatever it is you wish?

gracewar7

...

Cheeva Catkin

5 - Why should we trust you when, in 24 pages, we have had two responses and neither have properly addressed the issues at hand?

gracewar7

...

Cheeva Catkin

6 - If you do decide to implement this new design, will you at least allow the option for those of us who either detest it or cannot use it (due to lag/screen size/visibility issues) the option to keep a "classic" Gaia style?

gracewar7

There were great suggestions from you, including an option to turn it off or to hide/minimize it, etc. All of these will be considered - we'd simply like to gather more feedback post-launch when you've actually had a chance to try this.

Cheeva Catkin

7 - Will you re-think the terrible phrasing of the "refill" button, to a word/phrase that is less impersonal/seeing the users like cash-cows?

gracewar7

...

Cheeva Catkin

8 - Why, exactly, are you removing the bubbles when it is what makes Gaia unique, quirky and is obviously a beloved feature of the site? Why split it in two - which seems like a design nightmare and an utter waste of time, so that we see only announcements at the top of the page and all the important alerts (PMs/Comments/Friend Requests) in a difficult to see and use footer?

gracewar7

After digesting this feedback and speaking to the various teams, here's what we will do before the first release: We will put PM notifications back in the bubble in the header.

Not really an answer, but at least you mentioned the bubbles...somewhat.

---

Once again, you are simply using spin. I have worked in the media industry - I know spin when I see it. I've had to help write/edit it before. I know when someone is trying to fob me off with half-baked "compromises".

I asked the simple question - are you listening to us and, if you are, are you going to foist this unwanted change on us anyway?
Your answer: Yes.

Bad business practice there.

People have tried the floating footer. We have tried it on social-networking sites before. And, to quote your list, we do not like them because:

• It is too Facebook-like and takes away from Gaia's identity.
  
• You're worried about the lag.
  
• You're concerned about the space it will take up at the bottom of the page and the fact that it follows you everywhere on the site.

I would like to add:

• Difficult to use
  
• Difficult for vision impaired users to interact with

What we are trying to tell you, and what you are stubbornly refusing to hear - is that we have tried these footers before and we do not like them. Many people have left sites that have implemented these changes. Many people have boycotted these sites because of these changes. Many people have petitioned for the old style of these sites back because of these changes. Many people have written their own scripts for these sites in order to circumvent these changes.

We are telling you we have tried these things. There are over thirty pages of us telling you this exactly, and telling you comprehensibly that we do not like them and do not want them on Gaia.

And yet you are foisting these changes on us anyway.

I will say it again, this speaks volumes about how much you actually care about your users.

[Angelic.Pulchritude]

Thank you for the update, grace! I think it's a great idea to have the option of not having the floating footer for users (like myself) who just don't like them. I would be happy with the fact that it is released out, so long as there is that flexibility for the users to choose whether or not to take advantage of the new feature. I would be very unhappy if the footer was just forced on us to use and eventually have adapt to.

[Axed_Angel]

King Inversitle

Why in the world do you guys change the header every 6 months or so practically? What is the point, besides distracting us from the multiple other problems that you guys do not wish to face?

I like my header how it is, I like my layout how it is (though this is a lie, I miss the headers and crap of years past) so don't change it, for christ's sake. It's a redundant change when you very well know that most users don't care about what neato stupid things their header can do and just that it's staying the way it is.

Jahiri Kusanagi

The fact that all my alerts and teh like pop up in a little speech/ thought bubble next to my avitar was one of those little things that made gaia charming to me.

This, most definitely- I too enjoy everything in one spot that pops up in that speech bubble, and seeing that go would probably bug the crap out of me.

I agree XP

[Lexenos the Knight]

Quote:

After digesting this feedback and speaking to the various teams, here's what we will do before the first release: We will put PM notifications back in the bubble in the header.

Just PMs? Not comments?

Temporarily sick of my flob.

[Like OMFG]

gracewar7

However, we realized that it's tough to evaluate something when you're not interacting with it and just looking at a mock (which someone pointed out is in pretty low resolution). We'd like to take a chance and release it, let it live and breathe a little bit.

You're idea is already living and breathing on other sites. Most of us already know that we don't like interacting with a footer, because we've already done it on Facebook ect. Making the footer purple and putting it on Gaia won't change that. The basic principles are the same:

-They are at the bottom of the page, where we don't look.
-They are annoying, following you everywhere and probably will look shitty with the rest of the site if it ends up looking like the SS.
-They clutter up the screen more than it already is. It adds another limit to it.
-Lag. It will probably lag. I'm not saying that because every other footer on other sites I have tried did. Its your track record Gaia. You are a large site, larger than probably those that already use it. It will most likely lag. It will probably break and it will work like s**t for awhile. I'm not predicting that because I already know I don't want it. Its just your record.

I fail to see how your purple footer automatically eliminates any of that, besides the second one as that is really a matter of opinion, but it appears to be a popular one in this thread.

Anyways besides the complaining about how you are going to push it out anyways this is more feedbacky:

If you're going to put PMs back in the bubbles, put the rest of the notifications back. Just like the PMs, I want to know if I have a trade or comment so obviously I'm going to want those notifications up where I will see them. In case you haven't figured it out: In the header with the PMs. You mentioned in your post that you realized we were concerned about all notifications going in the footer. Is there a reason why only PMs are being put back in before the initial release? You couldn't even manage a full compromise. neutral

Anyways, thanks gracewar7 bothering to post. I doubt you make the final decision on it, but you're the one who is getting mugged for it in this thread.

[k u r o b u]

D: I don't like this idea at all.

This would cause major lag to many people's computers and it gets
annoying at some point to have to check down there.

Just stick to the way it is now!
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[Godess The Hyper Fangirl]

Daffodil the Destroyer

I'm still not thrilled about a footer, but I'm glad we get to keep our bubbles, and I'm glad that you guys are looking at an "off" option for the footer. 3nodding

I agree. I'm also really really hoping that if the feedback is still negative after release, they will get rid of it(or at thevery least a turn off feature). I just have this fear that they say this just so they can release it anyways without caring. Again, I'm really hoping they will digest the post-release feedback as well.

And as mentioned, can you clarify on the notifications? People want ALL their notifications in the bubble, not just PM's(including me). When you said you'd put PMs back did you mean everything else as well? Please tell me that's what you means gonk