Slick Southpaw
Feral Faun
Disclaimer: this is not an attempt to disparage or insult those who are dedicated to making such lists, but rather a case for where such lists belong
These lists do not foster discussion in the GCD. Thread makers that that have insisted on carrying discussion are ignored, and other posters simply do not care about discussion content. Instead, RIG item and other such lists pertaining to RIGs have been a race to being *first* to post and contain very little content matter.
The GCD sticky states:
The Gaia Guides & Resources Subforum sticky states:
Most of these lists make zero attempt to establish that they are anything but lists instead of places for actual discussion.
Some thread creators will try and have a workaround with disclaimers such as this
There is also a problem of "being first" when it's gotten to the point that people will squabble over threads and who has the "rights" to it. This has happened to other RIGs as well. Moving this to the Gaia Guides would not necessarily stop the problems, but it would at least place a nice cut into repeat thread drama.
When an item list is made, and the first couple of pages consist of stuff about who should do threads or thread timing is wrong, something needs to be done. I was honestly surprised that this thread in question was not Chatterbox'd due to the sheer lack of actual discussion and more of users milling around with comments.
Commentary on multiplying thread, within Item list
Multiple Item threads are cluttering
Timing is everything
But in reality, it has boiled down to:
OP Request for links to items
Linking Items
Linking items
Linking Items
Linking Items
Linking Items + squee over items
While others simply do not care about facilitating discussion:
Stats thread is about stats only, according to OP, and here too.
Art list is just listing art
Here is another screenshot of an OP I had to cut due to sheer volume of art, but this was the only wording I could find that was unrelated to quoting what was the text under the RIG art, and posts are mostly involving arts
BUT WAIT, you say! GCD has a sticky saying that it is okay for RIG lists to be in the main fourm.
However, this sticky has issues as well. It relies on the notion that discussion is being promoted when in reality, it is basically pages of links to new items being released from the RIG. Discussion content is minor at best, and often limited to "I love this item" or "I hate this RIG" as common sentiments, as evidenced by above links.
In addition, some of the older RIG lists have actually been moved to guides.
LexBox
Neon Core
These RIG Lists, be they Item Lists, Stats Lists, or Art List is just that. A list that serves its purpose as a resource and a valuable contribution to the Gaian community. Sometimes, there is discussion, randomly, but overall they still fail to meet the necessary requirements of the amended GCD sticky.
A sticky that was put specifically in to deal with the rising regular occurrence of the creation of RIG lists has done nothing to facilitate and place a greater emphasis on discussion in RIG list-style threads. Instead, multiple lists have spawned and serve to clutter up the GCD instead of being located in a forum that is dedicated to being a resource for all Gaians.
EDIT: I am well aware of some of the sentiments regarding item threads in the GCD and dissent on whether it belongs or not. This thread is not here to address those views. I am in full support of any thread that promotes discussion in the GCD, whether it is item or Gaia theory focused. This thread specifically is for the concept that RIG lists do not belong in the GCD because they no longer follow the rules of their own customized sticky.
EDIT 2: In light of the sticky update that popped up while I was busy elsewhere, I had some questions of my own. I am copying my post from the sticky, mostly because I would like some clarification that seemed a bit odd to me.
Hi, Sisky, I was wondering what was considered as "containing content" in regards to your sticky adjustment for CI Lists, especially when an OP cannot adequately moderate the thread to contain discussion and instead is full of pages of spam containing links to items found in said latest RIG. Do you have a certain percentage that you would consider to be adequate discussion per GCD rules?
I mean, when I see RIG threads and the last 10 pages seem to have most discussion out of a 70 page thread, it's kinda hard to see how the heck it belongs in the GCD when dicussion is on par with link spam. What about Stat Threads or Art Threads? I have seen OPs say "oh hey you should discuss something" but most of the posts contain lists of items found or art found and not actual discussion. Those would belong in GG&R, right?
These lists do not foster discussion in the GCD. Thread makers that that have insisted on carrying discussion are ignored, and other posters simply do not care about discussion content. Instead, RIG item and other such lists pertaining to RIGs have been a race to being *first* to post and contain very little content matter.
The GCD sticky states:
Quote:
Threads that are meant to describe how to play an event, game or Random Item Generator belong in the Gaia Guides & Resources subforum as these threads do not actually promote discussion. This includes lists for items from the events.
The Gaia Guides & Resources Subforum sticky states:
Quote:
The following is a list of the kinds of threads generally appropriate for GG&R. For the most part, any long term thread with useful information is allowed in GG&R:
Tutorials/Guides about aspects of the site
Threads designed to answer users' questions about a specific aspect of the site or about the site in general.
FAQs
Resource threads (Mod list, Item list, Themes Codes, etc.)
Helpful threads (Make a strong password, protect yourself from hacking, how to report)
Tutorials/Guides about aspects of the site
Threads designed to answer users' questions about a specific aspect of the site or about the site in general.
FAQs
Resource threads (Mod list, Item list, Themes Codes, etc.)
Helpful threads (Make a strong password, protect yourself from hacking, how to report)
Most of these lists make zero attempt to establish that they are anything but lists instead of places for actual discussion.
Some thread creators will try and have a workaround with disclaimers such as this
There is also a problem of "being first" when it's gotten to the point that people will squabble over threads and who has the "rights" to it. This has happened to other RIGs as well. Moving this to the Gaia Guides would not necessarily stop the problems, but it would at least place a nice cut into repeat thread drama.
When an item list is made, and the first couple of pages consist of stuff about who should do threads or thread timing is wrong, something needs to be done. I was honestly surprised that this thread in question was not Chatterbox'd due to the sheer lack of actual discussion and more of users milling around with comments.
Commentary on multiplying thread, within Item list
Multiple Item threads are cluttering
Timing is everything
But in reality, it has boiled down to:
OP Request for links to items
Linking Items
Linking items
Linking Items
Linking Items
Linking Items + squee over items
While others simply do not care about facilitating discussion:
Stats thread is about stats only, according to OP, and here too.
Art list is just listing art
Here is another screenshot of an OP I had to cut due to sheer volume of art, but this was the only wording I could find that was unrelated to quoting what was the text under the RIG art, and posts are mostly involving arts
BUT WAIT, you say! GCD has a sticky saying that it is okay for RIG lists to be in the main fourm.
Quote:
User lists created to track what items come out of the latest RIG/CI are allowed as it is often an ongoing community event that produces quite a lot of interest. However these topics must present a discussion about the RIG/CI in it's first post (cannot just be a list) and must keep the conversation in the thread about the RIG/CI at hand. Trading/selling the items from the RIG/CI in said thread is not allowed and belongs in the Exchange. Should a RIG/CI list be bumped up after a new RIG/CI has been released it will be locked as it is no longer current.
However, this sticky has issues as well. It relies on the notion that discussion is being promoted when in reality, it is basically pages of links to new items being released from the RIG. Discussion content is minor at best, and often limited to "I love this item" or "I hate this RIG" as common sentiments, as evidenced by above links.
In addition, some of the older RIG lists have actually been moved to guides.
LexBox
Neon Core
These RIG Lists, be they Item Lists, Stats Lists, or Art List is just that. A list that serves its purpose as a resource and a valuable contribution to the Gaian community. Sometimes, there is discussion, randomly, but overall they still fail to meet the necessary requirements of the amended GCD sticky.
A sticky that was put specifically in to deal with the rising regular occurrence of the creation of RIG lists has done nothing to facilitate and place a greater emphasis on discussion in RIG list-style threads. Instead, multiple lists have spawned and serve to clutter up the GCD instead of being located in a forum that is dedicated to being a resource for all Gaians.
EDIT: I am well aware of some of the sentiments regarding item threads in the GCD and dissent on whether it belongs or not. This thread is not here to address those views. I am in full support of any thread that promotes discussion in the GCD, whether it is item or Gaia theory focused. This thread specifically is for the concept that RIG lists do not belong in the GCD because they no longer follow the rules of their own customized sticky.
EDIT 2: In light of the sticky update that popped up while I was busy elsewhere, I had some questions of my own. I am copying my post from the sticky, mostly because I would like some clarification that seemed a bit odd to me.
siskataya
. We wanted to take a moment to clarify the rules about this as we don't want any further confusion!
Just so we are all on the same page, threads about the latest CI which provide lists of items are allowed in the GCD as long as there is discussion about the CI, what people like about it, dislike about it, how it might work with other items, etc. This actually has been a long standing rule, but we have tweaked it to read as follows so it is more clear:
Are Chance Item (CI) Lists allowed?
Yes. User lists created to track what items come out of the latest CI are allowed as it is often an ongoing community event that produces quite a lot of interest. However these topics must present a discussion about the CI in it's first post - it cannot just be an item list with no discussion. The conversation in the thread should be about the CI - what people like, don't like, other items it might work well with, etc. Trading/selling the items from the CI in said thread is not allowed and belongs in the Exchange.
Anyway, we hope this rule, and why such threads are allowed, are now more clear for everyone. If you have any questions about this, please post in here let me know! I'll be happy to answer your questions as best I can! biggrin
- Sisky
Just so we are all on the same page, threads about the latest CI which provide lists of items are allowed in the GCD as long as there is discussion about the CI, what people like about it, dislike about it, how it might work with other items, etc. This actually has been a long standing rule, but we have tweaked it to read as follows so it is more clear:
Quote:
Are Chance Item (CI) Lists allowed?
Yes. User lists created to track what items come out of the latest CI are allowed as it is often an ongoing community event that produces quite a lot of interest. However these topics must present a discussion about the CI in it's first post - it cannot just be an item list with no discussion. The conversation in the thread should be about the CI - what people like, don't like, other items it might work well with, etc. Trading/selling the items from the CI in said thread is not allowed and belongs in the Exchange.
Anyway, we hope this rule, and why such threads are allowed, are now more clear for everyone. If you have any questions about this, please post in here let me know! I'll be happy to answer your questions as best I can! biggrin
- Sisky
I mean, when I see RIG threads and the last 10 pages seem to have most discussion out of a 70 page thread, it's kinda hard to see how the heck it belongs in the GCD when dicussion is on par with link spam. What about Stat Threads or Art Threads? I have seen OPs say "oh hey you should discuss something" but most of the posts contain lists of items found or art found and not actual discussion. Those would belong in GG&R, right?
