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Slick Southpaw's avatar

Shaggy Streaker

Disclaimer: this is not an attempt to disparage or insult those who are dedicated to making such lists, but rather a case for where such lists belong

These lists do not foster discussion in the GCD. Thread makers that that have insisted on carrying discussion are ignored, and other posters simply do not care about discussion content. Instead, RIG item and other such lists pertaining to RIGs have been a race to being *first* to post and contain very little content matter.

The GCD sticky states:
Quote:
Threads that are meant to describe how to play an event, game or Random Item Generator belong in the Gaia Guides & Resources subforum as these threads do not actually promote discussion. This includes lists for items from the events.


The Gaia Guides & Resources Subforum sticky states:
Quote:
The following is a list of the kinds of threads generally appropriate for GG&R. For the most part, any long term thread with useful information is allowed in GG&R:

Tutorials/Guides about aspects of the site
Threads designed to answer users' questions about a specific aspect of the site or about the site in general.
FAQs
Resource threads (Mod list, Item list, Themes Codes, etc.)
Helpful threads (Make a strong password, protect yourself from hacking, how to report)



Most of these lists make zero attempt to establish that they are anything but lists instead of places for actual discussion.
User Image


Some thread creators will try and have a workaround with disclaimers such as this

There is also a problem of "being first" when it's gotten to the point that people will squabble over threads and who has the "rights" to it. This has happened to other RIGs as well. Moving this to the Gaia Guides would not necessarily stop the problems, but it would at least place a nice cut into repeat thread drama.

When an item list is made, and the first couple of pages consist of stuff about who should do threads or thread timing is wrong, something needs to be done. I was honestly surprised that this thread in question was not Chatterbox'd due to the sheer lack of actual discussion and more of users milling around with comments.

Commentary on multiplying thread, within Item list

Multiple Item threads are cluttering
Timing is everything


But in reality, it has boiled down to:
OP Request for links to items
Linking Items
Linking items
Linking Items
Linking Items
Linking Items + squee over items

While others simply do not care about facilitating discussion:
Stats thread is about stats only, according to OP, and here too.
Art list is just listing art

Here is another screenshot of an OP I had to cut due to sheer volume of art, but this was the only wording I could find that was unrelated to quoting what was the text under the RIG art, and posts are mostly involving arts


BUT WAIT, you say! GCD has a sticky saying that it is okay for RIG lists to be in the main fourm.
Quote:
User lists created to track what items come out of the latest RIG/CI are allowed as it is often an ongoing community event that produces quite a lot of interest. However these topics must present a discussion about the RIG/CI in it's first post (cannot just be a list) and must keep the conversation in the thread about the RIG/CI at hand. Trading/selling the items from the RIG/CI in said thread is not allowed and belongs in the Exchange. Should a RIG/CI list be bumped up after a new RIG/CI has been released it will be locked as it is no longer current.

However, this sticky has issues as well. It relies on the notion that discussion is being promoted when in reality, it is basically pages of links to new items being released from the RIG. Discussion content is minor at best, and often limited to "I love this item" or "I hate this RIG" as common sentiments, as evidenced by above links.

In addition, some of the older RIG lists have actually been moved to guides.
LexBox
Neon Core


These RIG Lists, be they Item Lists, Stats Lists, or Art List is just that. A list that serves its purpose as a resource and a valuable contribution to the Gaian community. Sometimes, there is discussion, randomly, but overall they still fail to meet the necessary requirements of the amended GCD sticky.

A sticky that was put specifically in to deal with the rising regular occurrence of the creation of RIG lists has done nothing to facilitate and place a greater emphasis on discussion in RIG list-style threads. Instead, multiple lists have spawned and serve to clutter up the GCD instead of being located in a forum that is dedicated to being a resource for all Gaians.


EDIT: I am well aware of some of the sentiments regarding item threads in the GCD and dissent on whether it belongs or not. This thread is not here to address those views. I am in full support of any thread that promotes discussion in the GCD, whether it is item or Gaia theory focused. This thread specifically is for the concept that RIG lists do not belong in the GCD because they no longer follow the rules of their own customized sticky.

EDIT 2: In light of the sticky update that popped up while I was busy elsewhere, I had some questions of my own. I am copying my post from the sticky, mostly because I would like some clarification that seemed a bit odd to me.

siskataya
. We wanted to take a moment to clarify the rules about this as we don't want any further confusion!

Just so we are all on the same page, threads about the latest CI which provide lists of items are allowed in the GCD as long as there is discussion about the CI, what people like about it, dislike about it, how it might work with other items, etc. This actually has been a long standing rule, but we have tweaked it to read as follows so it is more clear:
Quote:

Are Chance Item (CI) Lists allowed?

Yes. User lists created to track what items come out of the latest CI are allowed as it is often an ongoing community event that produces quite a lot of interest. However these topics must present a discussion about the CI in it's first post - it cannot just be an item list with no discussion. The conversation in the thread should be about the CI - what people like, don't like, other items it might work well with, etc. Trading/selling the items from the CI in said thread is not allowed and belongs in the Exchange.


Anyway, we hope this rule, and why such threads are allowed, are now more clear for everyone. If you have any questions about this, please post in here let me know! I'll be happy to answer your questions as best I can! biggrin

- Sisky
Hi, Sisky, I was wondering what was considered as "containing content" in regards to your sticky adjustment for CI Lists, especially when an OP cannot adequately moderate the thread to contain discussion and instead is full of pages of spam containing links to items found in said latest RIG. Do you have a certain percentage that you would consider to be adequate discussion per GCD rules?

I mean, when I see RIG threads and the last 10 pages seem to have most discussion out of a 70 page thread, it's kinda hard to see how the heck it belongs in the GCD when dicussion is on par with link spam. What about Stat Threads or Art Threads? I have seen OPs say "oh hey you should discuss something" but most of the posts contain lists of items found or art found and not actual discussion. Those would belong in GG&R, right?
Yeata Zi's avatar

Loyal Gaian

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I am in total agreement of coure. There really is no reason for these lists to be located in the GCD. They cut back on discussion, and definitely instigate silly drama over who makes the lists. They would be a helpful installment in the guides forum.
Lidke's avatar

Fused Prophet

Even if they are moved to the guides forum, there will still be idiots who'll fight like wolves on a deer corpse. whee

Edit: Why does that thought make me hungry?

Yeata Zi
I am in total agreement of coure. There really is no reason for these lists to be located in the GCD. They cut back on discussion, and definitely instigate silly drama over who makes the lists. They would be a helpful installment in the guides forum.
Rea Nez Bit's avatar

Loyal Fairy

Lidke
Even if they are moved to the guides forum, there will still be idiots who'll fight like wolves on a deer corpse. whee

Yeah, but it'll help curb it down. I can't be the only one who generally stays within a handful of forums. CB, SF, and Q&A are about the only forums I am active in (except for charities, but only to bump my quest thread, so I guess that doesn't count).

When their thread is no longer in their precious GCD, they'll be less likely to post elsewhere with it.
Fractale's avatar

Distinct Explorer

I can't begin to tell you how much I agree on this. These thread creators do nothing to encourage actual discussion, and if they do, it gets ignored by the users who post " like this", "I hate this", "I'm thinly veiling someone to but me a rig or x item so I can play. have it"

these threads are intended to be a guide, with the first post the OP makes, so clearly they sshould be in Guides and resources.
Waltzkrieg's avatar

Smitten Businessman

Agreed. Any attempts at actual discussion that pop up in item list threads get completely lost amid a deluge of links to new items in the MP-- and the links themselves are frequently repeats posted by people who haven't even bothered to check the OP, let alone the rest of the thread! I do think these lists serve an important purpose, but they are not discussion threads; they are guides. The motivation to be "first" to create and post in them is totally antithetical to discussion, and causes such childish and asinine drama. This month in particular was a low point, with three separate lists created for the RIG release that I saw. I'm disappointed that it has been allowed to continue for this long.
Slick Southpaw's avatar

Shaggy Streaker

Waltzkrieg
Agreed. Any attempts at actual discussion that pop up in item list threads get completely lost amid a deluge of links to new items in the MP-- and the links themselves are frequently repeats posted by people who haven't even bothered to check the OP, let alone the rest of the thread! I do think these lists serve an important purpose, but they are not discussion threads; they are guides. The motivation to be "first" to create and post in them is totally antithetical to discussion, and causes such childish and asinine drama. This month in particular was a low point, with three separate lists created for the RIG release that I saw. I'm disappointed that it has been allowed to continue for this long.
It's quite sad, especially since these RIG lists are quite useful. I won't deny how much I like using them, I'd be a liar if I denied it.

But when the lists are nothing more than lists and legit attempt at discussion is lost within the low content posts, something really needs to be done.
u33176617's avatar

Rainbow Noob

Pretty much.
Yup.

I make all my lists in GG&R. (ALL TWO OF THEM)
Never understood why people wanna put 'em in GCD.
Well okay, I imagine it started off with people making RIG discussion threads every month, and then deciding "Oh boy, I'd better link to the items in the first post so people know what to discuss!"
But item lists um... are just item lists. And belong in the Guides forum. emotion_yatta
Lapsis Stella's avatar

Intellectual Attendee

Trying to have a discussion on those threads is like trying to explain anime to my dad, it's not possible. You can try a few times before you just give up and say to hell with it. I like to discuss items and their potential, but that's impossible whenever people are squabbling and acting like drama queens over such petty things. I would love to have an in depth discussion in the GCD over what items have impacted users and why they love it so much, or see what items impacted their stay on Gaia and whatnot.
Slick Southpaw's avatar

Shaggy Streaker

Lapsis Stella
Trying to have a discussion on those threads is like trying to explain anime to my dad, it's not possible. You can try a few times before you just give up and say to hell with it. I like to discuss items and their potential, but that's impossible whenever people are squabbling and acting like drama queens over such petty things. I would love to have an in depth discussion in the GCD over what items have impacted users and why they love it so much, or see what items impacted their stay on Gaia and whatnot.
And honestly, I've grown to not be bothered by item discussion threads anymore, because some of them can be quite interesting or insightful. That's what I loved about EI's when they became a newfangled thing; there was a lot to discuss about both in relation to the item and to Gaia. With Dr. Singh's and Timmy's reports, there was a connection between the two.

I wouldn't mind RIG-centered threads, so long as they actually generated content. I've posted a RIG-centered myself speculating about the possibility of Brenn being a sadistic mastermind, which was quite fun. I've seen other users post about the theme of the RIG, especially when there's a nod to Gaia NPCs and watched conspiracy theories and fun speculations and arguments blossom. But these lists, so to speak, are merely lists, and in the end they serve as one function: to provide a series of links for the Gaia community to figure out what is in the RIG. And that is not discussion material.
Lapsis Stella's avatar

Intellectual Attendee

Slick Southpaw
Lapsis Stella
Trying to have a discussion on those threads is like trying to explain anime to my dad, it's not possible. You can try a few times before you just give up and say to hell with it. I like to discuss items and their potential, but that's impossible whenever people are squabbling and acting like drama queens over such petty things. I would love to have an in depth discussion in the GCD over what items have impacted users and why they love it so much, or see what items impacted their stay on Gaia and whatnot.
And honestly, I've grown to not be bothered by item discussion threads anymore, because some of them can be quite interesting or insightful. That's what I loved about EI's when they became a newfangled thing; there was a lot to discuss about both in relation to the item and to Gaia. With Dr. Singh's and Timmy's reports, there was a connection between the two.

I wouldn't mind RIG-centered threads, so long as they actually generated content. I've posted a RIG-centered myself speculating about the possibility of Brenn being a sadistic mastermind, which was quite fun. I've seen other users post about the theme of the RIG, especially when there's a nod to Gaia NPCs and watched conspiracy theories and fun speculations and arguments blossom. But these lists, so to speak, are merely lists, and in the end they serve as one function: to provide a series of links for the Gaia community to figure out what is in the RIG. And that is not discussion material.


Yeah, there are a few insights that make me open my eyes or chuckle every now and again. I loved the Timmy EI and the discussion that came from it. I hated to see it go, but alas, everything must come to an end.

You know, Brenn does seem the type to be a secret sadistic mastermind. Those threads are the fun ones and I love them so much. I would love to see RIG items: Discussion in the GCD so that we can talk about the FAIL art or the accountants amusing ramblings when the RIG has arrived.
T y l e n o l.'s avatar

Saint Sweetheart

I'm not going to sit and repeat what's been said, but I agree.

Then there's also the fact that even if the OP really wanted to, facilitating discussion in such a thread is incredibly difficult regardless, because the thread moves so damn fast.
sgkat's avatar

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Everyone's said what I would, except: I wish I could <3 this more than once.

They're lists. They belong in the GG&R.

Maybe then people would venture out of their home forums.
When it gets dark enough, you can see the stars
--Lee Stalk


[br][/br]
Bardic Inspiration's avatar

Familiar Hoarder

I never really thought of it that way. But I can totally see them being guides more than generating discussion. I'm in much agreement.
Kuhle's avatar

Unbeatable Ladykiller

T y l e n o l.
Then there's also the fact that even if the OP really wanted to, facilitating discussion in such a thread is incredibly difficult regardless, because the thread moves so damn fast.


Not to mention, people don't even want to discuss. I've seen before where the OP does try to start discussions in threads like that, but all anyone ever posts is, "I like it," or, "It's s**t," and things like that. Very few people actually attempt any sort of discussion. Of course, I always do... *cough* /hypocrite

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