Bots on the Marketplace? A Rampant Problem Still Neglected.

[lost in the rhythm]

VVhip

Prism Rose

If anyone felt it necessary to report someone for botting they can just report a post, their profile, they could use the Abuse and Harassment report... The options are already there as long as you are clear about what you are reporting. Having a report on the MP to report "bots" would get most vendors that snipe stuff reported.

(I bold for tl;dr, not for yelling ^_^)

Reporting a marketplace bot, and labeling it abuse or harassment isn't a great way to go about it though. It's neither abuse nor harassment, and may get lost in the system being mislabeled. Which is what people like the OP are saying is happening already. If we can have report systems for other things we could have what the OP asks for. We could report it under the "other" option, but it'd be better if it flagged for what they actually are being reported for instead of a generic catch-all, yes?

Perhaps having warnings and punishment for purposely false reports would be appropriate? It would need to be founded in fact and finding ways to do that would be tricky. You raise a good point about report abuse. Many quick buyers would be reported erroneously, but that's what happens already with all report systems, and it's no reason not to implement a new, specific one. People are only punished if proven guilty here, and investigation would prove their innocence.

I do believe our report system does account for and does not punish those who report in good faith if they believe a person to be breaking the rules and it is found that they are not. You raise another good point, it would be a lot harder for the average user to tell the difference between a bot and someone who is quick at buying.

Education of the community would be necessary, and it would rely on everyone understanding the difference before reporting. But false reporting and accidental mis-reporting is unavoidable and is no reason not to implement a report feature.

I agree with this~

Users who vend frequently are usually able to tell the difference between a bot and someone who isn't botting.
False reports will happen, and I am sure it happens on a daily basis with other cases. 3nodding

[lost in the rhythm]

Caffeinated Layla

I do hope this issue gets resolved soon as alot of vendors and questors are losing out on gaining the specific item/s that this bot is buying up, I do agree that if we have specific forms to use when reporting someone then having one specifically for bots and/or AIers is a good idea!
Nearly all Admins and Mods are always inundated with private messages and some may go unread and be lost in their inboxes so this little form will help alot to get attention to the issue!

I hope so, too.
It just bothers me, I feel like this will encourage more users to bot because they think they will get away with it if nothing is being done about the issue.
That's just my opinion, though.

My messages becoming lost happens quite often and it becomes frustrating, which is why I think it would be great to have a report function for botting. <:

[Gash Thrashum]

::edited to avoid post deletion again, although that very quick post deletion gives me hope that moderators are reading and doing something about the situation::

I'm a little confused by a couple of posts in this thread. A very active vendor will know when someone is botting; it is quite obvious. If you don't vend frequently, I have to make the assumption that stating it's simply a case of someone being "just a little faster" is misguided. There are users whom are normally quicker than I am, but I know they're not botting. Then there are users who catch every misprice at speeds impossible for a human even with the fastest of Internet connections, and it's happening at all times of day. It's blatantly obvious. You cannot reach the confirm screen even if you're quick, which you can in most other circumstances. However, with bots, the speed at which they grab misprices basically renders the screen where you press "Buy Now" useless. In cases where it's simply a fast vendor, you can still click "Buy Now" provided you catch the item right away on the 'Just Added" listings page.

It would be helpful if my posts and previous thread which the OP linked to were read and understood properly.

[[hachiro]]

i just breezed through the previous thread, and i have to say i think it's kind of shitty of the higher-ups to lock your thread because it "got a tish bit out of hand". it likely wouldnt have gotten out of hand if something had been done about it, but there was no cash reward offered for assisting so i suppose upper management can't be blamed too much for neglecting the users in the name of the almighty dollar. gotta get those gold gens out!

anyway, i agree with the "report botting" proposition wholeheartedly. it would help streamline the report/warning system, and i'm pretty sure there are methods of determining who's a bot and who's a quickdraw when it comes to the mp to prevent users from being wrongly accused. i hope this function is at least looked into.

[Prism Rose]

lost in the rhythm

Your statement doesn't prove anything, either.

Please refrain from posting any further if you aren't going to discuss the main point of this topic.

I understand what the topic is about. There are ways to report without making something available which can be mistaken for something else. In my experience there is a lot of reoccurring misconceptions on what is reportable in what area. Making a report specifically for botting is not the answer to the issue. As I mentioned, the Gaia folks have the whole "Rainy" incident that stands before them as a precedent. If that was not botting than that doesn't leave much to what is, so us as members without fancy-dancey stuff would not be any more able to point it out.

I can see why it's a headache and not that big of a priority, if anything. I get your frustration, too, but when there are suggestions for CAPTCHAs that don't inconvenience vendors to prevent botting when the only way to implement such a thing is if it inconvenience everyone to some extent to ensure you are not a bot, then it's kinda rock->hard place.

Gaia seems to have no win sweatdrop

[[hachiro]]

Prism Rose

I understand what the topic is about. There are ways to report without making something available which can be mistaken for something else. In my experience there is a lot of reoccurring misconceptions on what is reportable in what area. Making a report specifically for botting is not the answer to the issue. As I mentioned, the Gaia folks have the whole "Rainy" incident that stands before them as a precedent. If that was not botting than that doesn't leave much to what is, so us as members without fancy-dancey stuff would not be any more able to point it out.

I can see why it's a headache and not that big of a priority, if anything. I get your frustration, too, but when there are suggestions for CAPTCHAs that don't inconvenience vendors to prevent botting when the only way to implement such a thing is if it inconvenience everyone to some extent to ensure you are not a bot, then it's kinda rock->hard place.

Gaia seems to have no win sweatdrop

lost in the rhythm

sorry, i'm not familiar with the "rainy" incident you're referring to, and my google fu is weak. could you explain, or post a link?

unless op thinks it's irrelevant to the thread, in which case my apologies to everyone for butting in. >u<

[Myrielle]

lost in the rhythm

Myrielle

I hope that report generates some sort of activity transcript like how reporting in virtual worlds generates a chat transcript so moderators can review the words that were exchanged. But, would the mods know what they will be looking at? I was think developers would know like how swarf or Uncle Kenny caught a zOMG bot by noting their continuous activity for more than 36 hours. I am not sure of the extent of the moderator's tools if they can do the same.

It would be similar to the hacking/scamming reports where you can provide as much evidence as you have, like screenshots.
I think it would speed the process up, and the mods just have to look at the users store log and how long they have been online.

I am sure they can also check exactly how many refreshes a user has made, based on the incident that happened with Rainy. 3nodding

Just like what happened to poor Rainy? That was an incredibly, embarrassingly, horrendously, ignominiously and terrible mismanagement of his case. If that is the level of moderator involvement we are going to expect, I'd rather go without it. They'll probably get more false positives that catch actual bad guys. I really almost lost faith in the abilities of the entire staff during entire fiasco. I'm glad Rainy was made of sterner stuff and you guys supported him throughout and revealed so many disgusting practices and poor performance of the staff with that thread. I was actually afraid to spend anymore GC or any more time if they couldn't be trusted to tell the difference between a user and a bot. lol
If hope they spend money on better tools to spot and filter bots. Whatever they had was clearly inadequate.

[Prism Rose]

[hachiro]

Prism Rose

I understand what the topic is about. There are ways to report without making something available which can be mistaken for something else. In my experience there is a lot of reoccurring misconceptions on what is reportable in what area. Making a report specifically for botting is not the answer to the issue. As I mentioned, the Gaia folks have the whole "Rainy" incident that stands before them as a precedent. If that was not botting than that doesn't leave much to what is, so us as members without fancy-dancey stuff would not be any more able to point it out.

I can see why it's a headache and not that big of a priority, if anything. I get your frustration, too, but when there are suggestions for CAPTCHAs that don't inconvenience vendors to prevent botting when the only way to implement such a thing is if it inconvenience everyone to some extent to ensure you are not a bot, then it's kinda rock->hard place.

Gaia seems to have no win sweatdrop

lost in the rhythm

sorry, i'm not familiar with the "rainy" incident you're referring to, and my google fu is weak. could you explain, or post a link?

unless op thinks it's irrelevant to the thread, in which case my apologies to everyone for butting in. >u<

It was a banning that was made public over botting the MP that basically turned into a public vs Gaia moderation decision issue. It became ugly because apparently Gaia's definition of a "bot" was dubbed incorrect by vendors.

[[hachiro]]

Prism Rose

i see. thank you.

[Glo-fi]

I'm a pretty frequent vendor, and I'm pretty sure I know who the OP is talking about. We are all quick. but when the item is bought @ 0s and you can't even click the 'buy now' button to get to the confirm page? It's pretty fishy if you ask me.

Unless, the person is dumping alot of cheap stuff and users are camping, that's the only reasonable thought that would happen.

I support a 'report botting' thing. If you vend daily, or enough to know who is always vending. It's very easy to spot the people who need to use that little extra help wink

[Bucket]

A report feature needs to be integrated. I've been saying this for years now and have majorly been saying it since botting seems to have made a comeback last summer. It took me two months of constant harassing of FIVE different admins - since every mod I asked said they couldn't handle a case of a bot and/or scripting ( with sufficient proof might I add ) - to get them to finally handle someone scripting.

I'm sorry but quite a few staff members have made it very clear they are biased against vendors, couldn't give a s**t about bots, and would rather ignore well known vendors bringing up rule/ToS violations than handle something violating their own rules. :/ It's quite disgusting and exactly why I will not report people scripting anymore after the last situation and Rainy's case. It's honestly a waste of my time.

I know an account is 100% botting right now, and I suspect their other account to be running scripts when they decide to "legitimately" vend. However, until a feature is integrated to properly report this*, I refuse to bother with any admins regarding it. It took a mod finally telling me it's best to file botting cases under scamming as a means to get it handled faster. And even that took a month and a half to get a response ( NOT A SOLUTION, mind you ) which, by then, I had already PM'd another staff member with my report number and got it handled. :/

I'm sorry but botting is a major issue. It deserves more attention. Gaia flipped their s**t over the Gaia Cash exploits which were spreading illigitimate gold through the system but this is doing the exact same thing. Gold is being passed around that wasn't obtained through legal/legitimate means. It's no different than a scammer in a casino having all trades reversed when their account is reported and banned. SO WHY IS IT NOT BEING HANDLED BETTER?

*Note: In regards of the feature, I do believe it would be a requirement in the form to provide a few links and screenshots supporting why a user is being suspected of botting if things are purchased in less than two seconds. Also, admins would have to properly investigate this stuff instead of half-assing log investigations that they have complete access to. This is another reason why an official report feature should be in place. Since this thing cannot be properly categorized, I have found quite a few staff members acting very lazy about handling cases. :/

[Owlie]

xx I met my fate xx

I've seen the same user buy multiples of several of my items all within a second of listing. I can't say with 100% surety that it's a bot but it might be.

I'm not saying whoever bought your items was or wasn't a bot, but I'm capable of buying a ton of items at once with just opening tabs and using alt+tab, and I'm definitely not a bot. sweatdrop

[Lord Grimm Crimson]

Amia-Chan

▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ▂ ﹙♛﹚
xoxoxoxo❤ 'Cause I know there's got to be another level
xoxoxoxoxosomewhere closer to the other side
█████████ ↺ And I feel like it's now or never



I think, instead of a "Report Bot' button, gaia just puts a captcha in MP.
After so many buys (say ... 5? ) you have to fill it out to prove you aren't botting. If you don't fill it out, you can't purchase anything at all.

that would be great smile

[Catalyste]

Prism Rose

I think the issue with Rainy brings up another fact that perhaps Sniping, itself, should be considered an issue since it does resemble botting.

While I get that the overall premise of a user buying something off the MP without the use of a bot is by all accounts totally legit, if it's appearing that the buy rate or the refresh rate is around an unheard of level, then perhaps said user needs to have a reminder sent their way to slow down? After all, we used to get those messages telling us to slow down when the site believed we're refreshing too quickly. Perhaps this needs to be brought back? And if it wasn't taken away, then why doesn't it work with MP purchases? (Just saying since it hasn't shown up in a long time.)

The way I see it, I'd really hate to see this get out of hand. I wouldn't mind a report feature for bots, just like I wouldn't mind a captcha to slow them down. Even though Uncle Kenny is gone, that doesn't mean he was the last dev on Earth. Someone there can conjure something up. Heck Narumi still has his skillset intact. If he's not too busy managing things, he could perhaps come up with a script to get a handle on this.