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Sakura Latte's avatar

Kawaii Shoujo

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I'm a bit confused on how this works.
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Shadow Coon II
SilverEgg
I don't think it's against the rules, is it? I checked the ToS and saw nothing.

I think you can make deals to borrow gold from people, especially if you use collateral.

People use the collateral system to borrow items from each other all the time.


I know for certain that the Exchange has a rule against making threads offering to sell items that aren't currently in your inventory, so that leads me to believe that there's some rule somewhere that prohibits selling items that you don't own. I think the best option would be to PM a mod or admin and ask if that's the case.

Lots of people will do things against the rules without realizing it, so it's important that it gets pointed out for the sake of account safety and general knowledge. 3nodding



I think bidblast is a unique case though, because generally if you go into the Exchange and say, "Hey, buy the angelic halo from me that I don't really have yet! But I will have it soon! Pay me now!" People will stare at you and call you stupid, a noob, or a scammer.

With bidblast the other person is guaranteed to have the item as long as they have the gold to buy it.

Clarification would be good although I think it will be an okay thing, since a lot of people are going to be watching when things as rare as angelic minis get traded. There will be a ton of people monitoring this stuff which leaves little room for scamming to get past.
lilloulou's avatar

Tiny Fairy

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1. Make sure people receive a notice when they bid on an item which price is over the shop (for items STILL in gold shop) or marketplace current lowest price (with a link letting people check by themselves).

2. Change the formatting of gold prices in a way the , are included as they are on the marketplace. Example: 6,004,044g; 5,000g
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Knights Jester
Shadow Coon II
SilverEgg
I don't think it's against the rules, is it? I checked the ToS and saw nothing.

I think you can make deals to borrow gold from people, especially if you use collateral.

People use the collateral system to borrow items from each other all the time.


I know for certain that the Exchange has a rule against making threads offering to sell items that aren't currently in your inventory, so that leads me to believe that there's some rule somewhere that prohibits selling items that you don't own. I think the best option would be to PM a mod or admin and ask if that's the case.

Lots of people will do things against the rules without realizing it, so it's important that it gets pointed out for the sake of account safety and general knowledge. 3nodding
Got the exact quote for you. ninja
Quote:
Selling items that you do not own is NOT permitted.

Due to the high risk of abuse associated with these types of threads, any threads found to be selling items that users do not own themselves will be removed from the Exchange. This includes but is not limited to selling or taking offers on someone else's items.
Helping your friend find buyers is a great thing. However, if you wish to advertise their thread, please do so in the Chatterbox forum.


That is the rule if you use the Exchange forum though. Does it extend outside of the Exchange?

Notice they say threads will be removed from the Exchange, but the action itself isn't said to be bannable or not permitted outside the Exchange.
Knights Jester's avatar

Shirtless Gekko

SilverEgg
Knights Jester
Shadow Coon II
SilverEgg
I don't think it's against the rules, is it? I checked the ToS and saw nothing.

I think you can make deals to borrow gold from people, especially if you use collateral.

People use the collateral system to borrow items from each other all the time.


I know for certain that the Exchange has a rule against making threads offering to sell items that aren't currently in your inventory, so that leads me to believe that there's some rule somewhere that prohibits selling items that you don't own. I think the best option would be to PM a mod or admin and ask if that's the case.

Lots of people will do things against the rules without realizing it, so it's important that it gets pointed out for the sake of account safety and general knowledge. 3nodding
Got the exact quote for you. ninja
Quote:
Selling items that you do not own is NOT permitted.

Due to the high risk of abuse associated with these types of threads, any threads found to be selling items that users do not own themselves will be removed from the Exchange. This includes but is not limited to selling or taking offers on someone else's items.
Helping your friend find buyers is a great thing. However, if you wish to advertise their thread, please do so in the Chatterbox forum.


That is the rule if you use the Exchange forum though. Does it extend outside of the Exchange?
If you were to try to sell an item you don't have elsewhere (through trades, for example; telling user x that you have item y, and you'll trade it to them after they give you whatever), you would be scamming.
So yes, it does extend outside of the Exchange. Both the case in the Exchange, and the example I gave, are scamming.
Shadow Coon II's avatar

Dapper Man-Lover

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Knights Jester
Got the exact quote for you. ninja
Quote:
Selling items that you do not own is NOT permitted.

Due to the high risk of abuse associated with these types of threads, any threads found to be selling items that users do not own themselves will be removed from the Exchange. This includes but is not limited to selling or taking offers on someone else's items.
Helping your friend find buyers is a great thing. However, if you wish to advertise their thread, please do so in the Chatterbox forum.


Ah, thank you kindly! I know it was around there somewhere. whee
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Knights Jester
SilverEgg
Knights Jester
Shadow Coon II
SilverEgg
I don't think it's against the rules, is it? I checked the ToS and saw nothing.

I think you can make deals to borrow gold from people, especially if you use collateral.

People use the collateral system to borrow items from each other all the time.


I know for certain that the Exchange has a rule against making threads offering to sell items that aren't currently in your inventory, so that leads me to believe that there's some rule somewhere that prohibits selling items that you don't own. I think the best option would be to PM a mod or admin and ask if that's the case.

Lots of people will do things against the rules without realizing it, so it's important that it gets pointed out for the sake of account safety and general knowledge. 3nodding
Got the exact quote for you. ninja
Quote:
Selling items that you do not own is NOT permitted.

Due to the high risk of abuse associated with these types of threads, any threads found to be selling items that users do not own themselves will be removed from the Exchange. This includes but is not limited to selling or taking offers on someone else's items.
Helping your friend find buyers is a great thing. However, if you wish to advertise their thread, please do so in the Chatterbox forum.


That is the rule if you use the Exchange forum though. Does it extend outside of the Exchange?
If you were to try to sell an item you don't have elsewhere (through trades, for example; telling user x that you have item y, and you'll trade it to them after they give you whatever), you would be scamming.
So yes, it does extend outside of the Exchange. Both the case in the Exchange, and the example I gave, are scamming.


Do you have somewhere official where it says that? Because I don't see that anywhere in the ToS or Rules and Guidelines.
Knights Jester's avatar

Shirtless Gekko

SilverEgg
Do you have somewhere official where it says that? Because I don't see that anywhere in the ToS or Rules and Guidelines.
Quote:
Scamming. We reward our users with Gold and hard-to-find rare items, but we have no tolerance for people who try to take other users' assets with get-rich-quick schemes or promises of rare items. Running any kind of scam - including but not limited to lottery scams or trade scams - is strictly prohibited.

Under Repercussions, in Rules & Guidelines. Bolded the parts relating to the situation.
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Also a suggestion to Bidblast:

If the winner of an auction fails to purchase the item they bid on, their account should be barred from using bidblast for 6 months. Or something like that.

I feel some people are just going to troll the bid button just because they can, not because they actually want the item. Especially with low-end items in bidblast.
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Knights Jester
SilverEgg
Do you have somewhere official where it says that? Because I don't see that anywhere in the ToS or Rules and Guidelines.
Quote:
Scamming. We reward our users with Gold and hard-to-find rare items, but we have no tolerance for people who try to take other users' assets with get-rich-quick schemes or promises of rare items. Running any kind of scam - including but not limited to lottery scams or trade scams - is strictly prohibited.

Under Repercussions, in Rules & Guidelines. Bolded the parts relating to the situation.


That is with regards to scamming though. That is even under scamming.

If you are able to complete the transaction with a bidblast item (since you are promised the item anyway in the PM) it wouldn't be a scam. As long as both parties get what they want with the promises of items, there would be no scamming involved. There is a guarantee of a rare item, not a promise.

Now if the other party didn't give the promised mini wings to the buyer, then it'd be scamming.
Knights Jester's avatar

Shirtless Gekko

SilverEgg
Knights Jester
SilverEgg
Do you have somewhere official where it says that? Because I don't see that anywhere in the ToS or Rules and Guidelines.
Quote:
Scamming. We reward our users with Gold and hard-to-find rare items, but we have no tolerance for people who try to take other users' assets with get-rich-quick schemes or promises of rare items. Running any kind of scam - including but not limited to lottery scams or trade scams - is strictly prohibited.

Under Repercussions, in Rules & Guidelines. Bolded the parts relating to the situation.


That is with regards to scamming though. That is even under scamming.

If you are able to complete the transaction with a bidblast item (since you are promised the item anyway) it wouldn't be a scam.
The winner would have to purchase the item. If they can't afford it, they can't get it and sell it.

If they can't afford it, and take offers on it, only to complete the trade without giving the item (as in, taking the gold from the user who has their offer accepted) so they can get the item, it would still be scamming. I can't just go "hey, if you give me x amount of gold, I can give you x item", if I don't have the item on my account. It's promising an item I don't currently have.
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Knights Jester
SilverEgg
Knights Jester
SilverEgg
Do you have somewhere official where it says that? Because I don't see that anywhere in the ToS or Rules and Guidelines.
Quote:
Scamming. We reward our users with Gold and hard-to-find rare items, but we have no tolerance for people who try to take other users' assets with get-rich-quick schemes or promises of rare items. Running any kind of scam - including but not limited to lottery scams or trade scams - is strictly prohibited.

Under Repercussions, in Rules & Guidelines. Bolded the parts relating to the situation.


That is with regards to scamming though. That is even under scamming.

If you are able to complete the transaction with a bidblast item (since you are promised the item anyway) it wouldn't be a scam.
The winner would have to purchase the item. If they can't afford it, they can't get it and sell it.

If they can't afford it, and take offers on it, only to complete the trade without giving the item (as in, taking the gold from the user who has their offer accepted) so they can get the item, it would still be scamming. I can't just go "hey, if you give me x amount of gold, I can give you x item", if I don't have the item on my account. It's promising an item I don't currently have.

But you aren't promising an item you don't have, because you are guaranteed to be able to buy the item if you win an auction.

They can afford it if the person who wants to buy it from them supplies them with the gold.

It isn't scamming if everyone gets what they want from the deal. It's a scam when, you know, someone gets scammed via the other person breaking the deal in some way.

brb for a while, will be back soon

Ultimately though I think we need an admin or mod to come in to clarify things, because we can go back and forth on this forever.
Knights Jester's avatar

Shirtless Gekko

SilverEgg
The item isn't yours until you buy it, so you'd still be selling an item that isn't yet yours. I'm telling you how it is written in the rules. If you want clarification on this exact situation, I would suggest contacting a moderator.
SilverEgg's avatar

Conversationalist

Knights Jester
SilverEgg
The item isn't yours until you buy it, so you'd still be selling an item that isn't yet yours. I'm telling you how it is written in the rules. If you want clarification on this exact situation, I would suggest contacting a moderator.

That applies to the Exchange though, since that's where that rule comes from - it applies to Exchange threads.

Yes, I'd suggest contacting a mod too.
Doctor Ragnarok's avatar

Ruthless Genius

SilverEgg
Shadow Coon II
SilverEgg
I don't think it's against the rules, is it? I checked the ToS and saw nothing.

I think you can make deals to borrow gold from people, especially if you use collateral.

People use the collateral system to borrow items from each other all the time.


I know for certain that the Exchange has a rule against making threads offering to sell items that aren't currently in your inventory, so that leads me to believe that there's some rule somewhere that prohibits selling items that you don't own. I think the best option would be to PM a mod or admin and ask if that's the case.

Lots of people will do things against the rules without realizing it, so it's important that it gets pointed out for the sake of account safety and general knowledge. 3nodding



I think bidblast is a unique case though, because generally if you go into the Exchange and say, "Hey, buy the angelic halo from me that I don't really have yet! But I will have it soon! Pay me now!" People will stare at you and call you stupid, a noob, or a scammer.

With bidblast the other person is guaranteed to have the item as long as they have the gold to buy it.

Clarification would be good although I think it will be an okay thing, since a lot of people are going to be watching when things as rare as angelic minis get traded. There will be a ton of people monitoring this stuff which leaves little room for scamming to get past.


BidBlast is not unique since the principles behind it are still the same. Until the user has physically purchased the item after winning it, they do not own the item. "Borrowing" the money to buy it so they can turn around and sell it after has too much scam potential to be allowed.

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