۞✦ Alchemy: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. ✦۞

[Kyra Tawney]

l Chihiro-chan l

magickgirl

I do love the new items and agree with you on every point except one. I am glad that they are makings some old rigs available because I have been wishing they would re-release them again but I was thinking just for a short time.
They do need to have a major over hall of things though because the actual items you need to craft (mostly the rare ones) won't hold out. Then what? This thing is doomed to crash in a few days. If it does go though I wish some of the new things would get released later because in the post showing what you could get there was one thing in particular I would love to have.

I understand your desire to have a chance to get older RIG items through the RIGs they came from. However, believe it or not sometimes old RIG items are released via new RIGs as random prizes for pass/fail. I'm sure the odds of it are very low, but at least the concept insures that they won't ever just drop out of the market completely if left as they were.

Well the one I want has never gotten more listings and is now down to one insanely priced one so if there were more I wouldn't care but there arent.

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Celestenya

Ok, so I was just thinking, you need rig items to create the rig...
Thinking about Valefor...
Valefor uses 10 brooms then that's 10 rig singles that have been purchased and opened to get those 10 brooms. So if all bar one comes from a bundle then that's 1149gc Gaia gets or if it's all purchased as singles then that's 1491gc Gaia gets for you to make the bundle right? So how does this decrease the sales of the Valefor rig itself? Gaia's going to get much more gc from people crafting because someone has to buy the RIG itself before anything can happen...

But I think that crafting RIG's while a good idea because it helps control the absurd prices for high end RIG items which are ridiculously high, should be done using items you craft from items that are permanently available from the cs, and the current RIG should not be available for crafting.
Eg
10gc per raw ingredient -> 5 raw ingredients +5k per crafted ingredient (50k for 10)-> 10 crafted rig ingredient +20k -> RIG
=> Price for old RIG 500gc + 70k of gold from during crafting, 351gc more then what its price was when on sale and you're spending 25k in the making of it too... As well as this, you could make the raw or crafted RIG ingredients soulbound so that you can't just buy them really cheap from the market place ie for 1g each and then make it for 70k...

We somewhat covered this concept earlier:

l Chihiro-chan l

CleoSombra

Actually, crafting the RIG is more expensive than just buying it straight from the market. At least, that's how it is with Valefor, which calls for ten Evergreen brooms - the lowest I saw was 15k. Why would anyone spend 150k+ for an item that's 75k in the market?

In order for the recipes to be useful, the RIGs have to be really, really, really old, to the point that an individual RIG is worth more than the items needed to craft it. Additionally, becomes the RIGs are gone, the items needed to craft them are in limited supply. Once the RIG is gone, there will only be so many Evergreen brooms and whatnot in existence. If there are 30 floating in the market, that's enough to make just three Valefor's.

So exactly how is that not unbalanced? Once all of the existing brooms are bought up, then users cannot continue to make the recipe. If I go with your example of 30 being in the market, that's only enough for three RIGs. Even if all three of those RIGs turned out to be Evergreen Brooms, the cycle wouldn't be able to continue, as it takes 10 to complete the recipe in the first place.

This thread isn't simply to complain about the crafting system in general, but also how poorly thought out and unbalanced it seems.
As I said above; the whole system is broken and poorly thought out. RIGs won't be saturating the market because of this. Once the items it requires are bought out, it will slowly cease to be possible; as the ingredients outnumber the possible winnings from the RIG.

By needing such a large quantity of these items, they are going to inflate as well as get shorter in supply.

[Knights Jester]

Angel in a Bottle

Another good example:
http://www.gaiaonline.com/marketplace/itemdetail/45505
If I recall correctly, it was a low stage prize from Azrael's Trickbox, and it's been in the 70-200k range for years. It's part of the formula for the Cybergoth Suits. =/

Fayalite

I don't intend to sound rude, but you do realize that a lot of these items are limited, correct? This means there is not a constant, steady supply of them. Once the price goes up, it will not just suddenly drop back down. Should the ABP go up, the item will take awhile to go down. I've been poking around Gaia's market for years now, and that's how it tends to fluctuate. There are recipes calling for multiples of items that have this limited availability.

What if the price on that item does not go back down? Not everything is constantly being released once again--and if it is in a RIG, the % rate of getting it is likely not very high if it isn't from the current RIG.

As for "helping people with less", I highly disagree. I currently find the prices on components outrageous, and even if I had to pay what the ABP was prior to the jump, it would still look outrageous to me--and I don't have "less". Not everyone can purchase cash, and not everyone is a vendor, exchanger, or hoarder. A lot of users on this site get by and see 100k as a lot. Those users aren't going to be helped by a system that's going to cost them half of that 100k.
^ I apologize if all of that sounded super snarky. It's late and I'm fairly tired right now. And rush-typing so I can get some sleep, lol.

l Chihiro-chan l

That's how I've been seeing it. I know that if I were in that position, I'd be upset that what I was questing took a jump in price that very well may take awhile to go back down--should it ever return to the price it was before.
And I really do love the idea of them using gold shop items. It'd make the entire system a much better gold sink.

[Knights Jester]

magickgirl

l Chihiro-chan l

magickgirl

I do love the new items and agree with you on every point except one. I am glad that they are makings some old rigs available because I have been wishing they would re-release them again but I was thinking just for a short time.
They do need to have a major over hall of things though because the actual items you need to craft (mostly the rare ones) won't hold out. Then what? This thing is doomed to crash in a few days. If it does go though I wish some of the new things would get released later because in the post showing what you could get there was one thing in particular I would love to have.

I understand your desire to have a chance to get older RIG items through the RIGs they came from. However, believe it or not sometimes old RIG items are released via new RIGs as random prizes for pass/fail. I'm sure the odds of it are very low, but at least the concept insures that they won't ever just drop out of the market completely if left as they were.

Well the one I want has never gotten more listings and is now down to one insanely priced one so if there were more I wouldn't care but there arent.

♪★♪

Simply curious; what item are you talking about?

♪★♪

[Kyra Tawney]

Knights Jester

magickgirl

l Chihiro-chan l

magickgirl

I do love the new items and agree with you on every point except one. I am glad that they are makings some old rigs available because I have been wishing they would re-release them again but I was thinking just for a short time.
They do need to have a major over hall of things though because the actual items you need to craft (mostly the rare ones) won't hold out. Then what? This thing is doomed to crash in a few days. If it does go though I wish some of the new things would get released later because in the post showing what you could get there was one thing in particular I would love to have.

I understand your desire to have a chance to get older RIG items through the RIGs they came from. However, believe it or not sometimes old RIG items are released via new RIGs as random prizes for pass/fail. I'm sure the odds of it are very low, but at least the concept insures that they won't ever just drop out of the market completely if left as they were.

Well the one I want has never gotten more listings and is now down to one insanely priced one so if there were more I wouldn't care but there arent.

♪★♪

Simply curious; what item are you talking about?

♪★♪

the sdplus doll #001

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Knights Jester

That's how I've been seeing it. I know that if I were in that position, I'd be upset that what I was questing took a jump in price that very well may take awhile to go back down--should it ever return to the price it was before.
And I really do love the idea of them using gold shop items. It'd make the entire system a much better gold sink.

Mmhmm! If they were shop items, they would have set prices that wouldn't inflate to begin with. That and it would put users on more of a level playing field; which would be showing a genuine desire to be inclusive of everyone site wide, no matter their account worth. Then it could just be an enjoyable and rewarding feature for everyone.

[Solnya the Second]

Whoops, must have been dosing while reading sweatdrop

But what of my idea for instead of rig items being used, but special RIC/CI 'raw' and 'crafted' ingredients?

l Chihiro-chan l

[Knights Jester]

magickgirl

Knights Jester

magickgirl

l Chihiro-chan l

magickgirl

I do love the new items and agree with you on every point except one. I am glad that they are makings some old rigs available because I have been wishing they would re-release them again but I was thinking just for a short time.
They do need to have a major over hall of things though because the actual items you need to craft (mostly the rare ones) won't hold out. Then what? This thing is doomed to crash in a few days. If it does go though I wish some of the new things would get released later because in the post showing what you could get there was one thing in particular I would love to have.

I understand your desire to have a chance to get older RIG items through the RIGs they came from. However, believe it or not sometimes old RIG items are released via new RIGs as random prizes for pass/fail. I'm sure the odds of it are very low, but at least the concept insures that they won't ever just drop out of the market completely if left as they were.

Well the one I want has never gotten more listings and is now down to one insanely priced one so if there were more I wouldn't care but there arent.

♪★♪

Simply curious; what item are you talking about?

♪★♪

the sdplus doll #001

♪★♪

Character, I assume?
Classic Ian has been a bit on the rare side for awhile now. It may take awhile, but keep an eye out, and you may catch one at a much more reasonable price. If you haven't, try making a wanted thread in the exchange. Sometimes, people do have the doll, but just don't want to wait around with it on the MP.

As far as rereleasing RIG items--I wouldn't call a doll a direct RIG item. They come from within an item RIGs hold.
And I would really, really rather gaia not mass-release them as craftable. You really do not want to know how much I spent getting the entire collection--or how long I worked on it.

♪★♪

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Celestenya

Whoops, must have been dosing while reading sweatdrop

But what of my idea for instead of rig items being used, but special RIC/CI 'raw' and 'crafted' ingredients?

Do you mean something to this effect?
If not, just clarify what you do mean.
I'm a bit on the sleepy side myself, so don't feel bad. xD

l Chihiro-chan l

As I said earlier; this could have been an amazingly fun feature if it was gone about the right way. I would have loved to see Alchemy only make new items genuine to the feature that were created with just gold shop items, or maybe even a few CS related crafting items if they were really looking to gain revenue through this feature.

[Medeus]

Uh....so let me sum up what I skimmed and you tell me if it sounds about right, mm?

Angel in a Bottle

1) You think it's bad that items are now available to Users, and that it's an atrocious idea to allow more ways for people to Quest.
2) They recipes are cheap, and that's the worst idea ever, because now people can afford things (even though only the Recipes for the items cost 1g, not the actual recipe items themselves mind you).
3) Artists can't plan s**t, so they should just sit in their little corner and color their little items and let the Smart People do all the thinking.
4) Formulas are gonna ruin everything.....? Wait whu--
5) Now you're just bragging about how generous you are.
6) Support me! *jazz hands*

......LOL! You're one of those people who once put a LOT of money into getting good RIG items, and now you're realizing that it may not have been a good idea. rofl
Nobutsrsly, quit bitching.

I think it's a genius feature, and could've been a great Goldsink IF they'd used GS items instead of RIG items for the majority of the formulas. Other than that, and the oncoming MP tidal wave about to hit because of it, it was a good idea, and mostly I don't have a problem with it. Just needs to iron out a few kinks if you ask me.

[Solnya the Second]

l Chihiro-chan l

Celestenya

Whoops, must have been dosing while reading sweatdrop

But what of my idea for instead of rig items being used, but special RIC/CI 'raw' and 'crafted' ingredients?

Do you mean something to this effect?
If not, just clarify what you do mean.
I'm a bit on the sleepy side myself; so don't feel bad. xD

l Chihiro-chan l

As I said earlier; this could have been an amazingly fun feature if it was gone about the right way. I would have loved to see Alchemy only make new items genuine to the feature that were created with just gold shop items, or maybe even a few CS related crafting items if they were really looking to gain revenue through this feature.

Sort of, I'm kinda focusing more on the RIG aspect of it but more focused on XD I mean, I have 20 items which fall into my questing list which are RIG items, and it's taking me a while to get them so they're getting ridiculously over priced because they were expensive to begin with, but their low grant rate in subsequent rigs + inflation has made a lot of them nei on impossible to get... XD

But yeah, cs and gold shop related crafting item, and they don't have to be overly expensive either, just look at my calculations for a 2 step RIG craft. Gaia gets 500gc out of it, there's a 70k gold sink and items get soulbound at at least one level to prevent excessive deflation.

I just had another thought! What if instead of being able to craft the RIG you craft a version of the RIG with different odds for some of the items? XD (On top of not being able to craft the RIG out of RIG items that is XD)

I don't know if I'm explaining myself properly, maybe I should go to bed XD

[Akasha Heartilly]

Honestly, I love the feature and for years a feature like this has been talked about as a way to let older items be re-released that also requires work and effort to get. All the items and recipes to make these older items require work and items, funny how that part is ignored. I've never been against re-releasing items if it was done in a manner that also required work to get them and this allows Gaia to finally release the angel/demon wings.

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Medeus

Uh....so let me sum up what I skimmed and you tell me if it sounds about right, mm?

Angel in a Bottle

1) You think it's bad that items are now available to Users, and that it's an atrocious idea to allow more ways for people to Quest.
2) They recipes are cheap, and that's the worst idea ever, because now people can afford things (even though only the Recipes for the items cost 1g, not the actual recipe items themselves mind you).
3) Artists can't plan s**t, so they should just sit in their little corner and color their little items and let the Smart People do all the thinking.
4) Formulas are gonna ruin everything.....? Wait whu--
5) Now you're just bragging about how generous you are.
6) Support me! *jazz hands*

......LOL! You're one of those people who once put a LOT of money into getting good RIG items, and now you're realizing that it may not have been a good idea. rofl
Nobutsrsly, quit bitching.

I think it's a genius feature, and could've been a great Goldsink IF they'd used GS items instead of RIG items for the majority of the formulas. Other than that, and the oncoming MP tidal wave about to hit because of it, it was a good idea, and mostly I don't have a problem with it. Just needs to iron out a few kinks if you ask me.

Wow, way to come into a thread without genuinely reading and understanding the entirety of the situation. The way you phrased everything you just said is extremely rude; and you're the one claiming the OP is bitching?

Why don't you read the past 5 pages or so and decide whether or not you think that's honestly what she's saying. What I see when I look at the OP is someone with a genuine concern of the well being of this site, as well as the effects of this feature on it's income. And as far as the artists go, last I checked the site income is what pays their bills. Moreover, if it were really an issue of not wanting people to afford things; why would we be concerned about the cost/inflation of the items that are used in the formulas? :/

As it stands this feature IS incredibly unbalanced and unfair. The only way this could possibly be remade into anything that's the least bit reasonable/fair for everyone would be to do as we've been discussing in the past few pages. At this point I'm not even going to bother posting what that solution was, because if you honestly want to look at this thread from an open-minded perspective, you'll read over it on your own accord. I'm pretty sure you already agree with a few of the things we've discussed; whether you know it or not.

[Tussies]

l Chihiro-chan l

As I said earlier; this could have been an amazingly fun feature if it was gone about the right way. I would have loved to see Alchemy only make new items genuine to the feature that were created with just gold shop items, or maybe even a few CS related crafting items if they were really looking to gain revenue through this feature.

Oh, I couldn't agree more!

(I love all your posts regarding this matter.) whee

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Tussies

Oh, I couldn't agree more!

(I love all your posts regarding this matter.) whee

I really do wish that were the case. It honestly would be so much more enjoyable as a whole. I'm itching to get into the whole feature myself, but I'm not going to go around buying ingredients at insanely inflated prices. I'd like to think that tons of other users feel the same. ｡> ◡ <｡

Also this is OT, but I adore your avatar~