۞✦ Alchemy: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly. ✦۞

[sug chan]

I've tried so hard to get some awesome RID items but I have never been successful sadly enough. I can't say that I really feel bad for the people who think it'll be easy crafting more of these items because it still gives you a RIG it doesn't give you a guaranteed item, am I correct in thinking this or am I not? So there for they are not getting another item they're getting another CHANCE to get the desired item.

Now I can see why you'd think that this is bad enough but I think for some Gaians such as myself. I'm an older Gaian I've been playing since December 03. I'm not nearly as active on this website as I used to be so I don't actually have a s**t ton of gold that I'm just sitting on. In fact I had about 175k earlier this morning/last night and now I am down to 53k. -I was looking for some commons to match my current avatar that I hadn't already had. I ended up spending more than I anticipated, but whatever things happen. So now like I said I don't sit on top of a pile of riches thinking of ways that I can piss off people by trying to get 'richer' I just try to enjoy my avatars and dream over the horribly pricey RIG items

I was initially excited for the installment. Let me restate this. I was first like, "Oh god look what Gaia is copying now". Then I saw what the "free" alchemy item was and I was excited. I saw what some of the items were and was even more excited. Then I went to read what the requirements for some of the alchemy items were and I became less and less excited. One of the simple level 6 alchemy recipes that I wanted to make takes 10 of an item in which I only own one of and I knew there was a problem when I saw how many it needed. 10? 10!? That's crazy, so of course they are no longer cheap, it wasn't very cheap to buy in the first place and now the item is 500k. How does one go from 53k to 500k x 9 just to make a simple alchemy item...?

That's ******** bullshit if you ask me.

They need to rebalance this s**t in some way or another or get rid of the "alchemy" project that they're under taking because they're going to cause a hell of a lot of problems.

Especially for those of us who either don't have a ton of gold they're sitting on for those of us who are also not very active in the community no matter how that activity is played out. I.E. playing zOMG, buying RIGs and reselling them, buying MCs and selling them, selling art or goods, chatting with friends (no one but myself seems to do this anymore...) But you get the over all idea.


EDIT: Oh and btw I DID sign the petition as well.
Because honestly I think it's a cool idea however, I really don't think that the way they have it planned out it going to work...

[King of Ninjutsu]

Emergency Squirtgun

Ok. So I am completely in agreement with angel.
Last year, I attended Gaia's Feedback Panel at Gencon. We played small games and were requested to suggest ideas that might make Gaia more fun and exciting. What is mind boggling to me is that I remember requesting something just like this.

The idea of being able to craft your own items, and test different formulas is just too cool to leave out of something as big as Gaia.
Though what I had in mind was not exactly as what is happening now.

My idea of alchemy was that the items you were creating would be new. NOT older items such as Jet, Lucky, Pale, etc. Not only is this taking the hard work out of rigs. You're also going to see a HUGE decrease in sales of rigs, because people are just going to wait for the best items to come out. Find the formula for it and hope they can create it.

By having items that no one has ever seen before, prices are going to be based on rarity and demand. For instance with the Red Minis, only a few people have them, and people who do have them have worked more than their tail off to get them. (Unless of course they were a lucky raffle winner). If anyone were to see that THAT item was craftable, the demand for it would immediately go down. No one would care for it, if they could just make it themselves.

Not only are you going to have a problem with people being discouraged by the quest item, they just bought for 10m drop to 3m, but we all know there are going to be hardcore alchemists who are going to do nothing but craft single items.

I get that this might've been a ploy to get rid of inflation and I bet people who are questing the older rigs are going to be super happy that the prices have dropped, but seriously. Why not just make formula's for the Monthly Collectibles too, I'm sure everyone would just love to craft themselves a halo. :XP:

actually thats not all true. If you had to have super rare items to create the minis then they would still be high. just because you can make them doesn't mean price will go way down. there will need to be some major adjustments to make this feature work atleast for the middle class gaians.

[Knights Jester]

sug chan

I've tried so hard to get some awesome RID items but I have never been successful sadly enough. I can't say that I really feel bad for the people who think it'll be easy crafting more of these items because it still gives you a RIG it doesn't give you a guaranteed item, am I correct in thinking this or am I not? So there for they are not getting another item they're getting another CHANCE to get the desired item.

♪★♪

I only quoted this part because I didn't read most of your post (I apologize; I'm really tired right now), and I can give an answer to this one.
It gives you formulas to create actual RIG items, aside from RIGs on their own.
Example 1
Example 2

♪★♪

[shawell]

it is a great idea but it is to EXPENSIVE stressed
WHY? crying
crying crying crying crying crying crying crying
i only want a alrauna rose without using cash

[Rowan of Kasai]

I think it's a big load of BS. They want us to go out and spend all of our hard earned gold to make an item that may not even turn out right =(

Like the Valefor Academy. It costs 1GC but then you have to purchase 10 evergreen brooms. Right now the Evergreen Brooms are costing an average of 40,ooog. That's 400,000g!! AND the item you get from the RIG may only be worth 10,ooog!

[Antiq]

I think the fail factor should simply be removed. That's a horrible thing to do to anyone who might have spent ages saving up, only to possibly lose their gold entirely.

[A Fallen Virtue]

Angel in a Bottle

A Fallen Virtue

Angel in a Bottle

A Fallen Virtue

I suppose I'm in the minority, since I actually love the fact that you can craft RIG items. They probably don't have a high success rate if they were big-ticket ones, so I personally don't think there's anything to get upset about. The more that saturate the market, the better. Gaia was getting ridiculous with their uber-rares, anyway.

Honestly, who cares about the success rate when it's only a few thousand gold? It's not like you lose the items. The fail rate is almost irrelevant for 90% of the items.

The fact that there is one at all should make those ever-so-precious RIG items retain some of that value that some people just can't live without having.

Umm how so? Like I said, the cost to actually make the recipe is minimal and is usually less than a percent of any of the ingredients used in even making it.

How on earth would this make any of the items retain their value?

I guess I wasn't that clear. Sorry about that. What I meant to say was that there was a -chance- that the items would retain their value. I personally don't care about this sort of thing, so I'm only making a guess.

All in all, the inclusion of RIG items, whether valuable or not, is doing nothing to fight inflation.

[Hantale]

Nytmaere

I think it's a big load of BS. They want us to go out and spend all of our hard earned gold to make an item that may not even turn out right =(

Like the Valefor Academy. It costs 1GC but then you have to purchase 10 evergreen brooms. Right now the Evergreen Brooms are costing an average of 40,ooog. That's 400,000g!! AND the item you get from the RIG may only be worth 10,ooog!

This time yesterday, the brooms were barely cutting 15000, as well.
So let's also consider the amount of inflation this is causing...

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Medeus

I actually did not read every page between here and the first post, I DID read all of the first post, and even if I had read the last few pages before posting, I would've said the same thing. Sorry I come off as rude, but I'm not really in a mood to sugar coat anything with anything other than blunt honesty, which is what SF is all about, mm? No need to take personal offense though.
Plus also, I never said or implied that I wasn't bitching about the bitching, did I?

Oh? You actually read it? Because from what I was able to ascertain last night, you just looked like you came in with your mind already made up, and responded to the OP in a really shitty way. I wouldn't call how you phrased things blunt, like you're trying to sell them as. I'd be more likely to call them tactless.

Medeus

You'll have to show me where you saw that, because I never found genuine concern so much as cat-syndrome agitation about a massive new change to the way this site works, as well as a lot of degrading comments about artists who apparently can't handle big responsibility. That is NOT constructive criticism about the feature, nor is that any kind of "genuine concern" for the well being of the site.

Okay, so come again? You're going to claim that my interpretation of the OP's motives were wrong; but you're going to refuse to actually read and understand her views throughout the thread? I'm not going to go around wasting my time and quoting stuff from various pages just because you're too lazy to read them. Are you sure you're just not being biased because you yourself claim to be an artist? The artists on our site are very busy people, tons of them not only do work for Gaia, but also have a ton of other unrelated projects going on at any given time. Hell, I've taken art courses all throughout my life, and that just gives me a better understanding of the concept that ALL artist's aren't best suited to economics, let alone deciding over a huge project that will have such a large effect on the economy and possibly revenue. If the OP isn't making it apparent enough in her post that she's concerned about the site income, then I'm starting to feel like even debating this with you would be a complete waste.

Medeus

There is no such Slap in the Face anywhere. As I said before, I don't see why it's a problem to allow everybody the same opportunities to get the same items. It's simply another way of Questing. Sorry you spent a bajillion gold straight and heavy once upon a time to get an item, but now there's a way for hundreds of users to do the same thing except with multiple items amounting to the same thing. It's not like you've lost an investment; in fact, with RIG prices shooting up, the items you Slaved over once-upon-a-time are now worth way more than you could've gotten them even in a trade with a rich/generous friend. Your Inventory Value is in for a big shift, and there's nothing you can do about. Sorry. Even if they completely repealed the feature, the MP would still be a hot mess for awhile. So you can either take it as a slap in the face, or you can get over it and move on to bigger and better investments.

So let me get this straight. You think that because I have a shred of account worth I must have spent a "bajillion gold", and that this dictates the concept that I must be against other users gaining worth? That's not jumping to conclusions at all. rolleyes The fact is, I want this feature to be something fun and inclusive to everyone as I've stated numerous times before inside this thread. It's not my fault if the thread is sitting here and you're just too lazy to read it before trying to debate about my intent.

I'd honestly love nothing more than to see this feature utilize GS items in favor of items out of past RIGs. That way it would guarantee that things do not inflate to the point that users with less capitol can't enjoy them. I voiced that concept earlier in this thread. Not only would this prevent Alchemy induced inflation on things that users with less gold may be questing hard to obtain (such as a Winter Bride, for example), but it would also make an excellent gold sink. If we limited the craftable items to all new items like I had stated before; users would have tons of new things to aspire towards which may in turn help with the inflation on so many other items, as more varied things would be in demand.

Aren't you essentially admitting that this feature is going to hike up prices on smaller things by suggesting I make bigger and better investments? Can you honestly shrug this off as something that is only going to make the MP a hot mess for a while? Take the current RIG recipe for example; lets say that requires x10 evergreen brooms. Now even if a user bought 10 of these out of the MP and created a RIG with them, they would only have the possibility to get one in return. If you do the math on this cycle, it just results in pushing specific items to extinction, and only viewing them as nothing more than an ingredient. How would you feel as an artist of an item if your item suddenly skyrocketed in price not because people liked it, but because they could use it as some disposable component in a recipe? Something about that in itself seems a bit depressing to me.

Even if what you had said earlier is true, and that these items will be configured so they are renewable; as of last night extinction was a very valid concern.

Medeus

Now I don't remember reading anything in the OP about what they could/should do to fix it. Mostly I saw a looooong list of things she doesn't like about it, and reasons why they should put everything back. So first I responded in kind, now I'm practicing what I preach:

This feature is a Good Idea! They didn't quite release it the right way, but it's seriously a good idea. You guys have talked about GS items being used instead of RIGs and such, which is, ironically, the only thing I think they need to change about it. If they hadn't put such absurdly espensive formulas together, which include rare RIG items and miscellaneously impossible-to-get drops, than it would've been a big hit! And I think we both/all agree on that point, unless I'm mistaken.
So please stop being butt-hurt. I'm not here to troll, I'm here to give feedback, which I did. Sorry it was a little rude, but I also think it's rude to call the Gaia Staff incompetent, and I also think that this is SF and it would be dumb for me to NOT give my feedback on the matter.

I've already stated that this feature is a good idea; so yes, we're on the same page there. As I've said, I would love to see this feature be ironed out.

Isn't that just what SF is for? Feedback? If she doesn't like something about the new feature, she's free to voice her opinion here and bring up her concern. If you had come in here with a reasonable and mature argument, I most likely wouldn't have said much at all other than what I thought about the things you had pointed out. Instead you chose to come in here like a troll and try to degrade the OP with accusations that you fabricated solely off of the first post of the thread. I called you out on it, and suddenly you're changing your tune. I'm not being butthurt in the least, I'm just pointing out that how you went about contributing to this thread was juvenile and completely unnecessary. You could have phrased things in a mature and well thought out manner, but instead you decided to come into someone else's thread and try to make a mockery of their ideas and concerns. You honestly think that your approach doesn't come off to be trollish in the least?

My point is, unless you're the OP you can't really say what real her motives are; so how can you honestly justify all of the conclusions you jumped to? You're just being hypocritical, considering you said she's claiming artists are stupid when you're just as eager to label her as some money hungry person who must have spent a "bajillion" gold on RIGs and doesn't want anyone else to gain worth.

[Ramona Razor]

I have to say, the one thing that started pushing me away from this feature was one formula in particular. The Chestnut Flowing Princess Hair.
I have been wanting the Ginger counterpart since the moment I saw that item. It's been the one thing I've been really actually questing for. I want it so badly.
Then this formula came out and it's revealed that you need not one, but TWO of these wigs plus TWO MORE in the Flaxen color, just so you can toss them out and get one wig. This absolutely disgusts me. Worse yet, I just have this feeling that there are people out there that will actually do this. The one thing I want so fricken badly, and another person is just willing to throw TWO of them away to get one item.
At least decrease the rarity if you're going to do that with the wigs. Make it easier to get them.
But no. The last time I checked, both wigs were over 3Mil AT LEAST. Their prices were going down, and now, thanks to this new application, they've shot all the way back up again, as if they were just first released. It just makes it feel like I'm never going to get that item now with it being ridiculously expensive AND being thrown away on something so stupid.

However, reading this petition added a whole giant list of reasons why not to like this new application. Really, it feels more like a slap in the face that you have to use older items. What about the people who were questing items that are used in these formulas? Their quests will have been ruined, because their items are being thrown away left and right.
It just doesn't make sens and the whole thing just makes me more and more upset.
And I wanted that damn hair so badly too...

[Medeus]

l Chihiro-chan l

Oh? You actually read it? Because from what I was able to ascertain last night, you just looked like you came in with your mind already made up, and responded to the OP in a really shitty way. I wouldn't call how you phrased things blunt, like you're trying to sell them as. I'd be more likely to call them tactless.

Okay, so come again? You're going to claim that my interpretation of the OP's motives were wrong; but you're going to refuse to actually read and understand her views throughout the thread? I'm not going to go around wasting my time and quoting stuff from various pages just because you're too lazy to read them. Are you sure you're just not being biased because you yourself claim to be an artist? The artists on our site are very busy people, tons of them not only do work for Gaia, but also have a ton of other unrelated projects going on at any given time. Hell, I've taken art courses all throughout my life, and that just gives me a better understanding of the concept that ALL artist's aren't best suited to economics, let alone deciding over a huge project that will have such a large effect on the economy and possibly revenue. If the OP isn't making it apparent enough in her post that she's concerned about the site income, then I'm starting to feel like even debating this with you would be a complete waste.

So let me get this straight. You think that because I have a shred of account worth I must have spent a "bajillion gold", and that this dictates the concept that I must be against other users gaining worth? That's not jumping to conclusions at all. rolleyes The fact is, I want this feature to be something fun and inclusive to everyone as I've stated numerous times before inside this thread. It's not my fault if the thread is sitting here and you're just too lazy to read it before trying to debate about my intent.

I'd honestly love nothing more than to see this feature utilize GS items in favor of items out of past RIGs. That way it would guarantee that things do not inflate to the point that users with less capitol can't enjoy them. I voiced that concept earlier in this thread. Not only would this prevent Alchemy induced inflation on things that users with less gold may be questing hard to obtain (such as a Winter Bride, for example), but it would also make an excellent gold sink. If we limited the craftable items to all new items like I had stated before; users would have tons of new things to aspire towards which may in turn help with the inflation on so many other items, as more varied things would be in demand.

Aren't you essentially admitting that this feature is going to hike up prices on smaller things by suggesting I make bigger and better investments? Can you honestly shrug this off as something that is only going to make the MP a hot mess for a while? Take the current RIG recipe for example; lets say that requires x10 evergreen brooms. Now even if a user bought 10 of these out of the MP and created a RIG with them, they would only have the possibility to get one in return. If you do the math on this cycle, it just results in pushing specific items to extinction, and only viewing them as nothing more than an ingredient. How would you feel as an artist of an item if your item suddenly skyrocketed in price not because people liked it, but because they could use it as some disposable component in a recipe? Something about that in itself seems a bit depressing to me.

Even if what you had said earlier is true, and that these items will be configured so they are renewable; as of last night extinction was a very valid concern.

I've already stated that this feature is a good idea; so yes, we're on the same page there. As I've said, I would love to see this feature be ironed out.

Isn't that just what SF is for? Feedback? If she doesn't like something about the new feature, she's free to voice her opinion here and bring up her concern. If you had come in here with a reasonable and mature argument, I most likely wouldn't have said much at all other than what I thought about the things you had pointed out. Instead you chose to come in here like a troll and try to degrade the OP with accusations that you fabricated solely off of the first post of the thread. I called you out on it, and suddenly you're changing your tune. I'm not being butthurt in the least, I'm just pointing out that how you went about contributing to this thread was juvenile and completely unnecessary. You could have phrased things in a mature and well thought out manner, but instead you decided to come into someone else's thread and try to make a mockery of their ideas and concerns. You honestly think that your approach doesn't come off to be trollish in the least?

My point is, unless you're the OP you can't really say what real her motives are; so how can you honestly justify all of the conclusions you jumped to? You're just being hypocritical, considering you said she's claiming artists are stupid when you're just as eager to label her as some money hungry person who must have spent a "bajillion" gold on RIGs and doesn't want anyone else to gain worth.

Woah now! Calm down scrappy, we're both on the same side here, eh?
Why are you picking a fight? Yes, I laid down my "Trollin' ways" for a sec because you seemed bothered by it. I even ended up trying to level with you about our feelings towards the new feature, since we're pretty much on the same page on that point.
And now you are being hypocritical by making up your mind about me, and my post, as well as making a lot of assumptions about what I actually read, what my intent was (first and second posts), and now you're making yourself look bad by attacking me as if I were some deadbeat, uneducated Troll come here to destroy your wardrobe.
Now would it kill you to calm down for 3 minutes and notice that I'm not here to do any such thing? If you're not gonna waste your time quoting other people, than why bother wasting your time bitching at me about how I "didn't read anything" and so therefore I have no clue what's going on, and have no right to make a post? That's not a fair assumption, especially since it's false.
I didn't realize you were the Spokesperson for the OP. You speak pretty presumptuously about her and what her intentions were, and what was going on in her head at the time of writing it, same way I did coming in. You're no better than I am at this point. Sorry to kick you off the high-horse there kiddo, but it's not your place to b***h and moan at me about how I misinterpreted the first post, since you could be guilty of the same thing for all we know.

Yes I am an artist, and yes I'm bothered that the OP thinks that Artists can't handle their workload. But as an Artist, I also know that they should know by now how much they can handle, and it's not Yours or the OP's place to tell them how they should be managing their time, and it's definitely not yours or the OP's place to tell them that they did it wrong. They know better than You how they need to pull it together, doncha think? High-horse = Not for you. Sorry!
And once again, if you feel it's a waste of time to continue debating with me, than why did you bother?

I don't recall stating anything about You personally, and I'm also pretty sure that I was both generalizing and exaggerating, not stating facts. Y u so serious?
And once again, We both agree on what an ideal implementation of this feature would mean for Gaia. Why are you picking a fight?

lol That little bit was a joke. Now is a good time to make cash, but I wasn't saying that That's how this new feature should be used. xD Lighten up.

You're right, Item extinction is/was a very real and scary possibility, but even I have enough faith in the Staff to trust that they didn't overlook that, and I assume they'll do something about it before the week is out. I think they just launched a little prematurely....needs some theoretical bug-fixing, but it's all good stuff if they can get it right.

Uhm, first of all I never fabricated anything. Once again, I never claimed to be stating facts, I never claimed that I wasn't being rude, I never accused the OP of being money-hungry, that was directed towards the Company and the general Gaian-Bourgeois population, and I'm pretty sure that the way you "pointed out my immaturity" was/is pretty immature, especially now when I'm being FAR more diplomatic. Why you pickin' a fight scrappy?
Secondly, "My point is, unless you're the OP you can't really say what real her motives are; so how can you honestly justify all of the conclusions you jumped to? You're just being hypocritical".
wink

[Prue]

Medeus

Since I am the OP, I can say that Chihiro is right on the dot with her assumptions (and they're all in the OP anyways, so why wouldn't she be correct?)

You came in here with a really negative attitude, and you made blatant assumptions that I had never claimed. Your response to her was also quite rude, and I don't think you "trolling" my topic has any place here. Even if you did "put it down for a second". The site feedback isn't a place to troll, and if you're looking to do that, I suggest you try another site all together. Please refrain from posting in my topic if at any point your intention is trolling.

And just for the record, 99% of my worth is in MCs, so these items deflating or inflating wouldn't effect me personally at all.

[tokkitoria]

I think they missed how item alchemy is supposed to work. I was so excited for item alchemy when it came out, but when I went to see the formulas they amount of items it takes just isn't worth the effort. And then it isn't even guaranteed to work if you did put in the time to gather the formula and ingredients. I think this is going to need a lot of tweaking, or else it's going to become a dead feature. I'm worried it'll turn out like trash/bug exchanges and it'll be left behind.

[l Chihiro-chan l]

Medeus

I love it when people try to combat my logic by trying to berate my opinion and claim that I'm picking a fight, or that bothered by something they said. I don't see anything here that motivates me to make a well thought out response, because all of my assertions were completely valid. I was never trying to pick a fight, I was simply stating an alternate view on how you had handled yourself. As far as assumptions go, I was just treating you as you previously treated the OP; not a very nice feeling, eh? Suddenly this makes me the one on a high horse? I'm not the one parading into SF topics and saying "Lol OP, you're wrong. I don't agree with your views, so let me make fun of them". So yeah, thanks for proving my point.

I'm dropping this topic now as I do not wish to deviate from the original concept of the thread. Angel is completely right, it's clear your intent is to troll, so don't expect me to waste any more of my time than I already have responding to you.