Whenever you bid on an item, the amount is taken out of your gold balance unless or until someone outbids you.
You may want to read the marketplace FAQ. 3nodding
Posts By User
Gaia Forums » Kthulah's Posts| Topic/Message | Replies | Forum | Post Date | ||
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| I NEED HELP!!!!!!!! Go to post | 2 | Bug Reports & Technical Support |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:22 am |
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| YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN THE GAIA ECONOMY BETTER? FINE! Go to post | 39 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:10 am |
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mikelovell89 Kthulah mikelovell89 Someone seems to be operating under the misguided assumption that the fee will have a greater impact on donating members. This is not so. I do not donate, but I still make my living primarily in the MP. I'm one of the guys who buys your sealed envelopes and sits on them until they can be sold at a profit. I risk taking a loss on every MC I buy, and I will be charged 2% on every one I sell whether I profit from that sale or not. I fail to see how anyone can contend that the fee will have any greater impact on someone who buys the MC with a credit card than someone who buys it from the donator, or even one of potentially dozens of middlemen, with Gaian currency.... Frankly, I think the primary purpose behind the new system is simply to attempt to create a less hostile business environment for newbs in order to encourage a larger user base. Gaia actually brags about inflation on the site in order to encourage investing in MCs! (see the graph showing increases in value of collectibles on the Gaia store main page?) The fee, in conjunction with the more user friendly market interface, will definitely make life easier for novices in the MP. Several marketing strategies commonly used to manipulate the market will become risky to undertake under the new system. Under the current system, you really don't stand to lose as much if your efforts to manipulate the market backfire. That changes with the fee. Gaia is a business, and they exist to make real money. Trust me, inflation and the stability of the Gaian virtual economy is only a concern as far as it has the potential to effect corporate Gaia's bottom line. Since the real money is in sponsorship rather than donations, don't be surprised if Gaia's idea of "fair" turns out to be whatever changes they believe will most likely increase membership and usage of the site. Naturally, in the interest of good relations, they are going to try to convince us that changes are being made to make the site better for users, and this is actually true, since making the site better for users helps achieve the goal of a much larger membership, but they are definitely more interested in pleasing the greatest number of people, not appeasing any specific group. This bites, since I understand that Gaia is, first and foremost, a real world business depending on real profits to continue, and some of us might get dumped on a little as a result of implementation of the new marketing system in the interest of attracting and keeping a larger membership, and ensuring they make sufficient use of the site to attract advertisers. I think the emotional impact is on donating members and honor loving gamers, and the g's impact is on all vendors who were using marketplace. For the ones who were really into this as a game, this is a smack in the face. We're being told, "You greedy bastards are to be penalized for causing and exascerbating inflation." The truth is that we did neither, so it's a hit to our honor. About attracting and keeping members, one must remember just how a site becomes famous on the net until they can afford to pay mad dollars for promo. That's from linkage and listing in the major search engines. I would never have known Gaia existed if it wasn't for a little text link on someone's website. It's been around for years, and I've been into RP for MANY years, and I had really no idea this place existed until about 3 months ago...and I get around on the net. Gaiaonline.com isn't even a catchy URL. I've told my friends about it, and had to tell most of them three or four times and then finally write it down or email it to them before they remembered it. So it's not like this site is any kind of a "yeah I've heard of it" even among some seriously hard core gaming folks who still occasionally like to play in text. So if their aim is to make a profit, then right now they should be treasuring their active members because each and every one of them is important. Then again, maybe all this is a sign that they want to decrease Gaia's value so they can sell it more easily. That thought did cross my mind. I've seen quite a few businesses screw themselves on purpose because of that. Every decision Gaia makes is, at it's root, a business decision. I don't think any Gaian is justified in taking it personally, and I must say that IMHO, you seem to be creating drama in your own mind. No offense, just an observation. Well of course. If I was playing hopscotch, and one of the kids starts screaming that it's my fault the squares are square, I'm gonna get a little creeped out. Yes it is a game, but if they're getting emotional, then I'm probably going to react emotionally to their getting emotional. In this case, we're getting blamed and punished for something that isn't our fault...in a *game*. So my feelings about it oscillate between pissed off and creeped out. I'm like, "Damn, I gave these crazy people my money...Ew...I thought this was a game, and they're insulting me for playing it?" So my "speeches" are going to be a little dramatic...although in the big picture, this isn't crushing my faith in humanity. I lost that long before Gaia. LOL! |
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| YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN THE GAIA ECONOMY BETTER? FINE! Go to post | 39 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:58 am |
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mikelovell89 Someone seems to be operating under the misguided assumption that the fee will have a greater impact on donating members. This is not so. I do not donate, but I still make my living primarily in the MP. I'm one of the guys who buys your sealed envelopes and sits on them until they can be sold at a profit. I risk taking a loss on every MC I buy, and I will be charged 2% on every one I sell whether I profit from that sale or not. I fail to see how anyone can contend that the fee will have any greater impact on someone who buys the MC with a credit card than someone who buys it from the donator, or even one of potentially dozens of middlemen, with Gaian currency.... Frankly, I think the primary purpose behind the new system is simply to attempt to create a less hostile business environment for newbs in order to encourage a larger user base. Gaia actually brags about inflation on the site in order to encourage investing in MCs! (see the graph showing increases in value of collectibles on the Gaia store main page?) The fee, in conjunction with the more user friendly market interface, will definitely make life easier for novices in the MP. Several marketing strategies commonly used to manipulate the market will become risky to undertake under the new system. Under the current system, you really don't stand to lose as much if your efforts to manipulate the market backfire. That changes with the fee. Gaia is a business, and they exist to make real money. Trust me, inflation and the stability of the Gaian virtual economy is only a concern as far as it has the potential to effect corporate Gaia's bottom line. Since the real money is in sponsorship rather than donations, don't be surprised if Gaia's idea of "fair" turns out to be whatever changes they believe will most likely increase membership and usage of the site. Naturally, in the interest of good relations, they are going to try to convince us that changes are being made to make the site better for users, and this is actually true, since making the site better for users helps achieve the goal of a much larger membership, but they are definitely more interested in pleasing the greatest number of people, not appeasing any specific group. This bites, since I understand that Gaia is, first and foremost, a real world business depending on real profits to continue, and some of us might get dumped on a little as a result of implementation of the new marketing system in the interest of attracting and keeping a larger membership, and ensuring they make sufficient use of the site to attract advertisers. I think the emotional impact is on donating members and honor loving gamers, and the g's impact is on all vendors who were using marketplace. For the ones who were really into this as a game, this is a smack in the face. We're being told, "You greedy bastards are to be penalized for causing and exascerbating inflation." The truth is that we did neither, so it's a hit to our honor. About attracting and keeping members, one must remember just how a site becomes famous on the net until they can afford to pay mad dollars for promo. That's from linkage and listing in the major search engines. I would never have known Gaia existed if it wasn't for a little text link on someone's website. It's been around for years, and I've been into RP for MANY years, and I had really no idea this place existed until about 3 months ago...and I get around on the net. Gaiaonline.com isn't even a catchy URL. I've told my friends about it, and had to tell most of them three or four times and then finally write it down or email it to them before they remembered it. So it's not like this site is any kind of a "yeah I've heard of it" even among some seriously hard core gaming folks who still occasionally like to play in text. So if their aim is to make a profit, then right now they should be treasuring their active members because each and every one of them is important. Then again, maybe all this is a sign that they want to decrease Gaia's value so they can sell it more easily. That thought did cross my mind. I've seen quite a few businesses screw themselves on purpose because of that. |
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| YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN THE GAIA ECONOMY BETTER? FINE! Go to post | 39 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:28 am |
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Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Um...You don't lose 2% of your profit. You'll lose 2% of the sale price. That means even if you take a loss on an item, you will still be charged 2% of that sale. Sorry. If I paid no gold for the item, which is almost always the case for me and certainly the case for the donators you seem to hold above everyone else, the sale is 100% profit. Therefore, I'm losing 2% of my potential profit--not to mention that I rarely sell anything at a loss. Do I really care about 2% of a sale of anything less than around a million gold? No, not really. I doubt trades would ever have a similar fee attatched, seeing as you can use trades to exchange just items or a mixture of items and gold, making such a fee illogical and, once again, completely circumventable unless a flat transaction fee were the case. Okay...You're welcome not to care. ...and since you don't, I know I'm not talking to a person who understands that this isn't just about the g's. It's about the honor in a game. When someone steps on my honor or breaks their word, I'm no longer playing...and I'm damn sure not paying them to treat me like crap. I'd rather see the administrators act responsibly and take a step towards fixing the economy rather than letting it stagnate and die. I find your perception of honor to be flawed. You are welcome to perceive a demand that people keep their word and honor their agreements, or do without my presence or financial support however you like. You call it flawed. I call it business. Their primary responsibility that should come before all else is to take care of the site to ensure that it functions for future users. If that means they don't completely comply with statements they've made to deal with unforseeable circumstances, I see absolutely nothing wrong. I really prefer someone who does what they need to in a situation over someone who tries to keep their word even when it doesn't make sense. In this case, he does not need to break his word. All he needs to do is get a spine. Cut everybody's gold, and do it a little every month in order to zero out the stagnant accounts. That will handle the problem of too much gold in the market, and give a better picture of how much old is actually in circulation. |
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| Residence fee or no fee! Go to post | 22 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:24 am |
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Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo I have to disagree once again. This is ridiculously unfair. The last time I checked, most people would consider having a choice in such a matter more fair than being forced to. You CHOOSE to pay the listing fee when you CHOOSE to use the Marketplace rather than another method of exchange. You're GIVING something up to GAIN something. FORCING everyone so surrender a portion of their gold makes absolutely no sense. It's a crappy idea, but it is not unfair. How is it unfair if everybody pays to tackle inflation? Marketplace didn't cause inflation. Users didn't pull gold out of their arses. The system awarded it to them. The system must be set to correct the discrepancy. This is a game. I think you're just upset because you thought that they'd be taking 2% of your profits instead of 2% of the sale price...whether or not you make a profit at all. Which is more unfair? To charge everyone 2% of a gain, or to risk charging some people 2% of a loss? ONLY USERS WHO CHOOSE TO USE THE MARKETPLACE TO COMPLETE OPTIONAL TRANSACTIONS LOOSE ANYTHING AT ALL. You don't seem to understand this. You CHOOSE to use the Marketplace. Not everyone looses. It is an OPTION. YES. YES, IT IS UNFAIR TO CHARGE EVERYONE A FEE WITHOUT A CHOICE. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. I've already explained to you the reasoning behind that statement. I fully understand how the transaction fee functions. rolleyes Really, you need to stop making assumptions about how other people feel. You CHOOSE to be on Gaia at all. They're the admins. They can do whatever they want. They own the site. If they decide to charge you 2% of your gold because you CHOOSE to be here, then I hope you're as happy to do that as you are to let others who may not be selling such expensive items that it would be worth it to spend hours drumming up buyers, suck up a 2% fee for CHOOSING to use marketplace instead of CHOOSING not to spend that time studying or working. ... Oh my ******** god. rofl You're trying way too hard to justify this. I'm sure the administrators would love all their users to have a good long think about whether or not they'd like to be here. This is like saying I choose to breathe becaue I am alive. I'm affected by a condition specific to a site because I choose to play it? Give up. There is no possible way that FORCING--because that is what it would be--the entire userbase to sumbit to a hardship that would be no means treat each user equally and farily is in no way an honorable decision. Don't pull the "it's their site, they can do whatever they want" bullshit. If the administrators want to require users to be 18+ and convert Gaia into a hentai gallery, they could. It's their site. Does it make sense? No, it doesn't. Excuse me, but "forcing"? Nobody's forcing any user to be here. As far as hardship, well...it's a game. I personally would lose not a thing from my offline life if either of the fees were implemented...except that in the case of a marketplace fee, I would no longer trust Gaia's admins. All I'm asking is that the game be played fairly...that the administrators of the game find a solution that maintains their and the game's integrity. An inflation offset trade would be universally applied, for the good of all members, encourage greater active participation, zero out stagnant accounts goldwise not itemwise, and it would take months to do it even with the starter gold. So you wouldn't get zeroed out from a 3 months vacation unless you only had 2 gold in your account, and even then you'd still have your items. ...and again, fees are a crap idea, but if we're going along those lines, then it's better in my view to have a fee that doesn't require Lanzer to become a famous cheater. |
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| YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN THE GAIA ECONOMY BETTER? FINE! Go to post | 39 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:08 am |
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Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Ah...so when it's you who might be losing gold as well, you're not so keen to just give it up. Well consider that the vendor doesn't even get an item that they may or may not want. They get nothing at all. If you wouldn't be willing to give up 2% of yours, don't ask me to give up 2% of mine. On the contrary. The vendor gets 98% of the sale. I rely on the Marketplace to make most of my money. I'm really not all that concerned about the 2% fee. I don't mind surrendering 2% of my profit for the convenience of using the Marketplace, particularly because I know that it will help in the long run and that I always have the option of circumventing the fee via the Exchange. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me how I do or do not feel about the issue. surprised Um...You don't lose 2% of your profit. You'll lose 2% of the sale price. That means even if you take a loss on an item, you will still be charged 2% of that sale. Sorry. If I paid no gold for the item, which is almost always the case for me and certainly the case for the donators you seem to hold above everyone else, the sale is 100% profit. Therefore, I'm losing 2% of my potential profit--not to mention that I rarely sell anything at a loss. Do I really care about 2% of a sale of anything less than around a million gold? No, not really. I doubt trades would ever have a similar fee attatched, seeing as you can use trades to exchange just items or a mixture of items and gold, making such a fee illogical and, once again, completely circumventable unless a flat transaction fee were the case. Okay...You're welcome not to care. ...and since you don't, I know I'm not talking to a person who understands that this isn't just about the g's. It's about the honor in a game. When someone steps on my honor or breaks their word, I'm no longer playing...and I'm damn sure not paying them to treat me like crap. I'd rather see the administrators act responsibly and take a step towards fixing the economy rather than letting it stagnate and die. I find your perception of honor to be flawed. You are welcome to perceive a demand that people keep their word and honor their agreements, or do without my presence or financial support however you like. You call it flawed. I call it business. |
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| Residence fee or no fee! Go to post | 22 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:05 am |
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Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo I have to disagree once again. This is ridiculously unfair. The last time I checked, most people would consider having a choice in such a matter more fair than being forced to. You CHOOSE to pay the listing fee when you CHOOSE to use the Marketplace rather than another method of exchange. You're GIVING something up to GAIN something. FORCING everyone so surrender a portion of their gold makes absolutely no sense. It's a crappy idea, but it is not unfair. How is it unfair if everybody pays to tackle inflation? Marketplace didn't cause inflation. Users didn't pull gold out of their arses. The system awarded it to them. The system must be set to correct the discrepancy. This is a game. I think you're just upset because you thought that they'd be taking 2% of your profits instead of 2% of the sale price...whether or not you make a profit at all. Which is more unfair? To charge everyone 2% of a gain, or to risk charging some people 2% of a loss? ONLY USERS WHO CHOOSE TO USE THE MARKETPLACE TO COMPLETE OPTIONAL TRANSACTIONS LOOSE ANYTHING AT ALL. You don't seem to understand this. You CHOOSE to use the Marketplace. Not everyone looses. It is an OPTION. YES. YES, IT IS UNFAIR TO CHARGE EVERYONE A FEE WITHOUT A CHOICE. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. I've already explained to you the reasoning behind that statement. I fully understand how the transaction fee functions. rolleyes Really, you need to stop making assumptions about how other people feel. You CHOOSE to be on Gaia at all. They're the admins. They can do whatever they want. They own the site. If they decide to charge you 2% of your gold because you CHOOSE to be here, then I hope you're as happy to do that as you are to let others who may not be selling such expensive items that it would be worth it to spend hours drumming up buyers, suck up a 2% fee for CHOOSING to use marketplace instead of CHOOSING not to spend that time studying or working. |
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| YOU THINK YOU CAN RUN THE GAIA ECONOMY BETTER? FINE! Go to post | 39 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:00 am |
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Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah Sir Ichigo Kthulah There are other ways to remove gold from the system...How about a universally applied 2% conversion of everybody's current gold balance to some sort of community item. At least that would be fair and wouldn't require villainizing vendors, specifically donor members who are also vendors. It's something that would be done to everyone every month or every quarter, and wouldn't require breaking their word or hogwash justifications other than simple economics. Marketplace isn't the cause of the overabundance of gold. Items don't come from out of nowhere, and nor does the gold. It's awarded by the system. I fail to see how forcing all users to surrender a quantity of gold that may or may not reflect their overall assetts in exchange for an item they may or may not want would be anything close to fair. A fee that can be completely circumvented with some extra effort and that is deducted in the process of making a profit seems infinitely more fair to me. Like I said, any adverse feelings towards vendors really aren't justified and are a temporary, unintended consequence of the fee cause by the human tendency to overreact and overcompensate. The Marketplace IS a big part of the reason there is so much gold in circulation. The Marketplace doesn't generate gold, but it keeps it in existance rather than draining it from the system to prevent it from accumulating infinitely. Short of restricting the creation of gold to an unreasonable level, the only way to balance the economy is to remove gold from the system. With the Marketplace being the primary method by which items are exchanged between users, it makes sense to turn it into a gold sink. Ah...so when it's you who might be losing gold as well, you're not so keen to just give it up. Well consider that the vendor doesn't even get an item that they may or may not want. They get nothing at all. If you wouldn't be willing to give up 2% of yours, don't ask me to give up 2% of mine. On the contrary. The vendor gets 98% of the sale. I rely on the Marketplace to make most of my money. I'm really not all that concerned about the 2% fee. I don't mind surrendering 2% of my profit for the convenience of using the Marketplace, particularly because I know that it will help in the long run and that I always have the option of circumventing the fee via the Exchange. I'd really appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me how I do or do not feel about the issue. surprised Um...You don't lose 2% of your profit. You'll lose 2% of the sale price. That means even if you take a loss on an item, you will still be charged 2% of that sale. Sorry. If I paid no gold for the item, which is almost always the case for me and certainly the case for the donators you seem to hold above everyone else, the sale is 100% profit. Therefore, I'm losing 2% of my potential profit--not to mention that I rarely sell anything at a loss. Do I really care about 2% of a sale of anything less than around a million gold? No, not really. I doubt trades would ever have a similar fee attatched, seeing as you can use trades to exchange just items or a mixture of items and gold, making such a fee illogical and, once again, completely circumventable unless a flat transaction fee were the case. Okay...You're welcome not to care. ...and since you don't, I know I'm not talking to a person who understands that this isn't just about the g's. It's about the honor in a game. When someone steps on my honor or breaks their word, I'm no longer playing...and I'm damn sure not paying them to treat me like crap. |
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| Residence fee or no fee! Go to post | 22 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:54 am |
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MrBlueberryMuffin They're going to see what happens, and if its negative they'll change it back. Complaining won't do anything about it. The point and the victory is in standing up for what is right...not getting what we want. |
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| Residence fee or no fee! Go to post | 22 | Site Feedback |
Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:52 am |
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Sir Ichigo I have to disagree once again. This is ridiculously unfair. The last time I checked, most people would consider having a choice in such a matter more fair than being forced to. You CHOOSE to pay the listing fee when you CHOOSE to use the Marketplace rather than another method of exchange. You're GIVING something up to GAIN something. FORCING everyone so surrender a portion of their gold makes absolutely no sense. It's a crappy idea, but it is not unfair. How is it unfair if everybody pays to tackle inflation? Marketplace didn't cause inflation. Users didn't pull gold out of their arses. The system awarded it to them. The system must be set to correct the discrepancy. This is a game. I think you're just upset because you thought that they'd be taking 2% of your profits instead of 2% of the sale price...whether or not you make a profit at all. Which is more unfair? To charge everyone 2% of a gain, or to risk charging some people 2% of a loss? |
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