Who here has heard of the Healthy life Extension Movement?

[Ubermensch8]

Who here has heard of the Healthy life Extension Movement? It is a cause that is trying to get more funding into research that will make it so that humans will be able to live longer and lead more productive lives when they are older.

The Methuselah Foundation is the leading medical charity at the forefront of this cause, another person leading the the cause is a man named Dr Aubrey De Grey, a biomedical Gerontologist from Cambridge university. He has developed SENS an engineering approach to repair the damage caused by the aging process.

Please I want to here your thoughts about this. It is a very worthwhile cause because when you are older (age 70-100) do you want to be functionless? Do you want to have dementia? Do you want to have an age related disease that will kill you both slowly and painfully?

[Vryko Lakas]

I'm wondering where people get the idea that you can extend your life significantly beyond what most Western nations already have.

[Ubermensch8]

Vryko Lakas

I'm wondering where people get the idea that you can extend your life significantly beyond what most Western nations already have.

Well the Okinawans certainly live significantly longer and heathier beyond most western nations. smile

There is also callorie restriction, there was a study that made resus monkeys live 7 more years on average than their non calorie restricted counterparts.

If you want to learn more about the research being done to find a cure to aging go to these links
http://methuselahfoundation.org/
http://www.sens.org/index.php?pagename=mj_index
http://www.imminst.org/

[Golden Dysprosium]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence#Scientific_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grey_Technology_Review_controversy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371037/?tool=pmcentrez

Why is it that only 1 mouse needs to be presented?

[Ubermensch8]

Golden Dysprosium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence#Scientific_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grey_Technology_Review_controversy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371037/?tool=pmcentrez

Why is it that only 1 mouse needs to be presented?

Mouse as in the Methuselah Mouse prize? I think they actually have to present a population of long lived mice

[Golden Dysprosium]

Ending-Aging

Golden Dysprosium

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371037/?tool=pmcentrez
Why is it that only 1 mouse needs to be presented?

Mouse as in the Methuselah Mouse prize? I think they actually have to present a population of long lived mice

Apparently, 3 years is a lucky old mouse. But let's focus on the last link, that says:

Quote:

Creative testable ideas are the lifeblood of scientific progress. In our opinion, however, the items of the SENS programme in which de Grey expresses such blithe confidence are not yet sufficiently well formulated or justified to serve as a useful framework for scientific debate, let alone research. de Grey's credibility, among those who do not know his ideas well enough to understand their weaknesses, lies partly in his claims that his ideas have been judged interesting and provocative by mainstream gerontologists. The authors of this article, proud of our roles as representative mainstream biogerontologists, wish to dissociate ourselves from the cadre of those impressed by de Grey's ideas in their present state.

The idea is nice, but there are already far too many humans; assuming that it actually worked, we'd probably run out of resources at an exponential rate. The whole population starves and dies because some people don't want wrinkles at 50. rolleyes

[Vannak]

Vryko Lakas

I'm wondering where people get the idea that you can extend your life significantly beyond what most Western nations already have.

TED

[Ubermensch8]

Golden Dysprosium

Ending-Aging

Golden Dysprosium

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1371037/?tool=pmcentrez
Why is it that only 1 mouse needs to be presented?

Mouse as in the Methuselah Mouse prize? I think they actually have to present a population of long lived mice

Apparently, 3 years is a lucky old mouse. But let's focus on the last link, that says:

Quote:

Creative testable ideas are the lifeblood of scientific progress. In our opinion, however, the items of the SENS programme in which de Grey expresses such blithe confidence are not yet sufficiently well formulated or justified to serve as a useful framework for scientific debate, let alone research. de Grey's credibility, among those who do not know his ideas well enough to understand their weaknesses, lies partly in his claims that his ideas have been judged interesting and provocative by mainstream gerontologists. The authors of this article, proud of our roles as representative mainstream biogerontologists, wish to dissociate ourselves from the cadre of those impressed by de Grey's ideas in their present state.

The idea is nice, but there are already far too many humans; assuming that it actually worked, we'd probably run out of resources at an exponential rate. The whole population starves and dies because some people don't want wrinkles at 50. rolleyes

Aubrey is one major contributor, but not the only. Hes kind of like one battalion of the army. Like one battle ship towing Higgins boats in preparation for d day., his ideas may or may not work but I personally think they will work, at least they are better than what anyone else has come up with. Have you even read his science?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iYpxRXlboQ This is a video of him talking at the TED conference. He was also featured on CNNhttp://us.cnn.com/video/?/video/international/2009/11/30/vs.clinic.immortality.cnn

I personally think most scientists just like to bring down other scientists ideas because they are just stupid humans and want to be the one that is right.

Some scientists are skeptical of his ideas, because his ideas do not actually exist yet, the technology doesn't exist yet to prove if he's right or wrong. That's why there has to be funding so that we can understand the aging process better and we can test out ideas like Aubrey de Greys.

Over population will not be a problem because there could be a law to limit how many children you can have, and also there is evidence that When populations live longer the birth rate goes down.
Also if people were living longer than 1000 years, they wouldn't choose to have alot of children they would wait a long time or have no children at all, there would be no pressure to have children, not like today how we only have a limited time to live.

[Golden Dysprosium]

Ending-Aging

Have you even read his science?

Given what the people from the following 28 establishments said

Quote:

Buck Institute for Age Research, Novato, CA, USA
2University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, TX, USA
3University of Pisa, Pisa, Italy
4International Longevity Center, New York, NY, USA
5The University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, Tulsa, OK, USA
6Department of Molecular Biology, Aarhus University, Denmark
7Lankenau Institute for Medical Research, Wynnewood, PA, USA
8University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
9Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA, USA
10The Jackson Laboratory, Bar Harbor, ME, USA
11University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
12Department of Pathology, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA
13University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL, USA
14University College London, London, UK
15University of Boston, Boston, MA, USA
16University of Louisville, Louisville, KY, USA
17University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, AR, USA
18University of Rochester, Rochester, NY, USA
aHuber Warner is Associate Dean for Research at the University of Minnesota College of Biological Sciences, St Paul, MN, USA.

...I'm not sure I should. Probably will, but from the link I got it doesn't sound very good.

Quote:

I personally think most scientists just like to bring down other scientists ideas because they are just stupid humans and want to be the one that is right.

It's not high school politics; scientists check each other's work. We want to make sure the people are right before we go giving them giant research grants.
"I may have gotten cancer, but at least my wrinkles are gone!"

Quote:

Some scientists are skeptical of his ideas, because his ideas do not actually exist yet, the technology doesn't exist yet to prove if he's right or wrong.

Like I said, not according to what I read.

Quote:

Over population will not be a problem because there could be a law to limit how many children you can have,

They have that in China, to try to curb over-population.

Quote:

not like today how we only have a limited time to live.

You make life sound like an info-mercial offer.

[filipino_dragon21]

Even if we extend a functional and healthy lifestyle up to... let's say 100. So a 100 year old person will be like a 50 year old person is today.

What happens when they turn 140? Dementia will kick in, Alzheimer syndrome will kick in, and your bowels will start to lose its control. Either way I look at it, if I live to be old, I will die the same way... just take longer to get there.

So in all, I do believe it is possible to extend our life span... we've been doing it for centuries anyways with medicines and dietary knowledge. However, do I care? No.

[Ubermensch8]

Golden Dysprosium

Ending-Aging

Have you even read his science?

Given what the people from the following 28 establishments said

Quote:

Buck Institute for Age Research, Novato, CA, USA
2University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, TX, USA
3University of Pisa, Pisa, Italy
4International Longevity Center, New York, NY, USA
5The University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, Tulsa, OK, USA
6Department of Molecular Biology, Aarhus University, Denmark
7Lankenau Institute for Medical Research, Wynnewood, PA, USA
8University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI, USA
9Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA, USA
10The Jackson Laboratory, Bar Harbor, ME, USA
11University of Newcastle upon Tyne, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
12Department of Pathology, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA
13University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, IL, USA
14University College London, London, UK
15University of Boston, Boston, MA, USA
16University of Louisville, Louisville, KY, USA
17University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, AR, USA
18University of Rochester, Rochester, NY, USA
aHuber Warner is Associate Dean for Research at the University of Minnesota College of Biological Sciences, St Paul, MN, USA.

...I'm not sure I should. Probably will, but from the link I got it doesn't sound very good.

Quote:

I personally think most scientists just like to bring down other scientists ideas because they are just stupid humans and want to be the one that is right.

It's not high school politics; scientists check each other's work. We want to make sure the people are right before we go giving them giant research grants.
"I may have gotten cancer, but at least my wrinkles are gone!"

Quote:

Some scientists are skeptical of his ideas, because his ideas do not actually exist yet, the technology doesn't exist yet to prove if he's right or wrong.

Like I said, not according to what I read.

Quote:

Over population will not be a problem because there could be a law to limit how many children you can have,

They have that in China, to try to curb over-population.

Quote:

not like today how we only have a limited time to live.

You make life sound like an info-mercial offer.

Don't believe in everything you read just because some University scientists say Aubrey's wrong. They are just human. They have their own opinions and you shouldn't let the opinions of others influence your disision making.

There was actually a prize that the technology review magazine would award to a team of researchers who could prove that SENS was so wrong that it is unworthy of learned debate. Guess what? No one won the prize, no one was able to prove SENS was wrong or right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grey_Technology_Review_debate


It is your choice to believe if Aubrey's strategies will work or not but I personally am willing to give him a chance. He has already founded his own Foundation(the SENS foundation) and is going to do research based on the SENS model, weather SENS works well or not for trying to find anti aging therapies no one can tell, but if I were you I would stop being very critical of things and be willing to give all great ideas a chance, because you never know the craziest idea may just work. biggrin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grey_Technology_Review_debate

Besides that I am supportive of ALL research going into curing aging, Aubrey is just one person who I think has some really interesting ideas.

How did I make life sound like an infomercial? I was stating a fact, we only have a limited time to live and that is why we have an urge to procreate because we only have a limited amount of time to do so. In today's world where the average lifespan for western countries is about 80, we only have a window of time we can have children and raise them. With humans lifespans being indefinite in the future and combined with the halt of biological aging there will not be as much pressure to have children.

If you are still not convinced that finding a cure to aging is both desirable and atainable there is alot of information on the Methuselah foundation's website about the questions you have asked.

This anti aging movement is picking up steam. soon there will be a cure to aging. Would you like to help?

[Ubermensch8]

Mothanius

Even if we extend a functional and healthy lifestyle up to... let's say 100. So a 100 year old person will be like a 50 year old person is today.

What happens when they turn 140? Dementia will kick in, Alzheimer syndrome will kick in, and your bowels will start to lose its control. Either way I look at it, if I live to be old, I will die the same way... just take longer to get there.

So in all, I do believe it is possible to extend our life span... we've been doing it for centuries anyways with medicines and dietary knowledge. However, do I care? No.

How could you not care? This is life we're talking about here. We have not been extending our lifespan with medicine, we have just made our maximum lifespan (which is now currently 122) attainable.

Have you ever thought that the body could be repaired just like a machine? For our body is a machine, a beautifully complex biological machine. The damage of aging could be fixed at the molecular level.

Just like how you can keep fixing a house so it stays up, you can do the same with your body, it's just a bit more complex than that.

[filipino_dragon21]

I know what we CAN do, but I don't really care to do it. I've thought this prospect over alot in my life, and have concluded that I eventually wanna die.

I've already done in 21 years what people would never do in their whole life. I've gone 2 times over the speed of sound, I've jumped from thousands of feet in the air multiple amounts of times... so many that I don't get a thrill from it anymore. I've saved lives, and I've ended a few as well. As I've become face to face with mortality more and more, I realize how nice the dead have it.

You and others I'm sure would love to jump on the prospect of doubling your life span, and I say go right on ahead. I personally don't care because everything has to come to an end. And endings are often the best part of any story. Why live forever when I can die young?

[Golden Dysprosium]

Ending-Aging

Don't believe in everything you read just because some University scientists say Aubrey's wrong. They are just human. They have their own opinions and you shouldn't let the opinions of others influence your disision making.

By that logic, I shouldn't listen to you or Aubrey either. The problem is generally very simple: if 400 people say rubber conducts electricity, when it is well-known it does not, I'll reject their ideas. It's not who or how many, it's whether they're actually qualified and their proposal is both realistic and reasonable. By the looks of it, Aubrey wants to "fix" a person apart at the molecular level; that's DANGEROUS BEYOND IMAGINATION.

Quote:

There was actually a prize that the technology review magazine would award to a team of researchers who could prove that SENS was so wrong that it is unworthy of learned debate. Guess what? No one won the prize, no one was able to prove SENS was wrong or right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Grey_Technology_Review_debate

How can you prove a non-existant idea wrong OR right?

Quote:

On July 11, 2006, Technology Review published the results of the SENS Challenge. In the end, no one won the $20,000 prize. The judges felt that no submission met the criterion of the challenge and disproved SENS, although they unanimously agreed that one submission, by Preston Estep and his colleagues, was the most eloquent. Craig Venter succinctly expressed the prevailing opinion: "Estep et al. ... have not demonstrated that SENS is unworthy of discussion, but the proponents of SENS have not made a compelling case for it."

Quote:

It is your choice to believe if Aubrey's strategies will work or not but I personally am willing to give him a chance. He has already founded his own Foundation(the SENS foundation) and is going to do research based on the SENS model, weather SENS works well or not for trying to find anti aging therapies no one can tell, but if I were you I would stop being very critical of things and be willing to give all great ideas a chance, because you never know the craziest idea may just work. biggrin

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
Do you even understand what he's proposing? Or, let me put it this way: would you sign up to be Test Subject #1? Besides, unless you're 5, by the time preliminary results come out, you'll probably be either dead or your body will have broken down to the point where your body couldn't make it past step 1 of 7.

Quote:

If you are still not convinced that finding a cure to aging is both desirable and atainable there is alot of information on the Methuselah foundation's website about the questions you have asked.

Did you know: There's a cell in your body whose sole function is to kill off other cells?
RBCs die off eventually; it's how they're built, so to speak. They are made in red marrow, and have no nucleus, so they can store more O2 to better carry out their function, but can't divide. Then these "executioner cells" float over and phagosize them. What would happen if you turn them off? BTW, their analogies suck. A better one would be playing Jenga with a house of cards.

Quote:

This anti aging movement is picking up steam. soon there will be a cure to aging. Would you like to help?

I'm actually fighting the urge to report this as off-site advertising, so I guess not. biggrin

[Slutty_Eddie]

Ending-Aging

Don't believe in everything you read just because some University scientists say Aubrey's wrong. They are just human. They have their own opinions and you shouldn't let the opinions of others influence your disision making.

This is dangerous kool-aid you're giving us here.

If someone objects, the proper thing to do is to ANSWER the objection. If you ignore objections just because they don't "suite" your purpose, you become isolated from the truth.

And the most important question in any medical field.

"DOES IT WORK?"