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Vryko Lakas's avatar

Wheezing Gekko

Mooby the Golden Sock
- the website of a campaign launched by an advocacy group established by the Church of Scientology

I'm going to pick on this out of your otherwise great rebuttal. MindFreedom doesn't seem to actually be linked with or connected to Scientology. It's something I looked into before posting my own reply.
Vryko Lakas
Mooby the Golden Sock
- the website of a campaign launched by an advocacy group established by the Church of Scientology

I'm going to pick on this out of your otherwise great rebuttal. MindFreedom doesn't seem to actually be linked with or connected to Scientology. It's something I looked into before posting my own reply.

I quoted 4, responded to 4. Please match the third response to the third link.

Thank you.
Vryko Lakas's avatar

Wheezing Gekko

Mooby the Golden Sock
I quoted 4, responded to 4. Please match the third response to the third link.

Thank you.

Ah, sorry. You meant Fight For Kids. Yep, Scientology front group.
Vryko Lakas
Mooby the Golden Sock
- the website of a campaign launched by an advocacy group established by the Church of Scientology

I'm going to pick on this out of your otherwise great rebuttal. MindFreedom doesn't seem to actually be linked with or connected to Scientology. It's something I looked into before posting my own reply.


Many factual claims are supported by religious (And twisted to their will) groups and many claims are born from religious groups, for example, the circumcision practice would not have risen if not for religious idiocy.

Why this is relevant

Anyhow, Scientology may or may not be using the facts to fit their own needs, however if this is so, then this does not mean that they themselves created it, it just means they are attempting to make use of it. Though I do not approve of it, there is nothing that can be done until we stand up and get rid of such cults as Christianity, Scientology and so on. (Cult is a name calling method, I know, and I intend on emphasizing that).
Vryko Lakas's avatar

Wheezing Gekko

Here's an idea, instead of randomly grasping at anything that happens to support the conclusion you'd like to draw, why don't you stick to the sources that are best equipped to critically and expertly tear ideas apart and compare them to the evidence? I.E. the scientific literature.
Only then should you draw a conclusion.
chromealias's avatar

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Oh please most of those things are brain disorders that mess up how chemicals get used or not by the brain. Those aren't published sources. Guess they must not believe in animal models, MRIs and many other things.
Vryko Lakas
Here's an idea, instead of randomly grasping at anything that happens to support the conclusion you'd like to draw, why don't you stick to the sources that are best equipped to critically and expertly tear ideas apart and compare them to the evidence? I.E. the scientific literature.
Only then should you draw a conclusion.


Look it up, the acclaimed evidences are fabricated.

Use this search and read whatever articles you find.

"FDA Chemical Imbalance"

There is no scientific evidence that psychotropic drugs actually treat a "Chemical Imbalance" in fact the only evidence states that they cause chemical imbalances.
Vryko Lakas's avatar

Wheezing Gekko

Votaro
Look it up, the acclaimed evidences are fabricated.

Use this search and read whatever articles you find.

"FDA Chemical Imbalance"

Not even having entered it, these search terms seem subtly but exquisitely tuned to turn up results promoting conspiracy theories rather than scientific evidence. And indeed when I tried it, I only got one actual peer-reviewed study; the next results were the Scientologist organization CCHR, an internet forum, an essay in Society, etc. Here's a better idea: look up some given disorders on Wikipedia, note their suspected causes, and search Google Scholar for terms related to those causes.
Funny thing happened when I tried that just now. I looked up Dissociative Identity Disorder (i.e. "multiple personalities" ) and didn't see a "chemical imbalance" type of explanation. Bipolar Disorder didn't turn up a single cause but a variety of suspected mechanisms including environmental factors and traumatic experiences. I looked up clinical depression and likewise found that it wasn't being ascribed to a simple "chemical imbalance" model. You know what this tells me? I suspect this whole "chemical imbalance" thing is a fundamental misunderstanding and oversimplified straw-man for conventional psychological science. It seems that some people latch on to the most popular aspect of treatment (prescription medicine and anti-depressants) and extrapolate from this one facet the mistaken idea that psychologists think the whole thing is as simple as a chemical deficit. What I'm seeing doesn't line up with the objections to "chemical imbalance" as presented by your special interest groups.
Vryko Lakas
Votaro
Look it up, the acclaimed evidences are fabricated.

Use this search and read whatever articles you find.

"FDA Chemical Imbalance"

Not even having entered it, these search terms seem subtly but exquisitely tuned to turn up results promoting conspiracy theories rather than scientific evidence. And indeed when I tried it, I only got one actual peer-reviewed study; the next results were the Scientologist organization CCHR, an internet forum, an essay in Society, etc. Here's a better idea: look up some given disorders on Wikipedia, note their suspected causes, and search Google Scholar for terms related to those causes.
Funny thing happened when I tried that just now. I looked up Dissociative Identity Disorder (i.e. "multiple personalities" ) and didn't see a "chemical imbalance" type of explanation. Bipolar Disorder didn't turn up a single cause but a variety of suspected mechanisms including environmental factors and traumatic experiences. I looked up clinical depression and likewise found that it wasn't being ascribed to a simple "chemical imbalance" model. You know what this tells me? I suspect this whole "chemical imbalance" thing is a fundamental misunderstanding and oversimplified straw-man for conventional psychological science. It seems that some people latch on to the most popular aspect of treatment (prescription medicine and anti-depressants) and extrapolate from this one facet the mistaken idea that psychologists think the whole thing is as simple as a chemical deficit. What I'm seeing doesn't line up with the objections to "chemical imbalance" as presented by your special interest groups.
No actually it is tuned to get you results regarding what the FDA admits to regarding the fraudulence of the chemical imbalance hypothesis. It's a matter of fact, not theory. Just because something you read does not agree with what you think you know does not make a it a conspiracy theory. When evidences are thrown together whether they fit or not, that's a conspiracy theory. When there is a single factual piece of data pointed out to you, that is NOT a conspiracy theory but in the case that it is referred to as one, a sort of a dodgy response. The fact being pointed out is that the chemical imbalance hypothesis is not anything more than a pseudoscience hypothesis.
Might I ask why you make claims about what causes general mental illness based on the sources you provide? Even if you believe the sources, they only tell you what didn't cause it. That does not mean it's automatically something else. You believe the chemical imbalance explanation is completely fraudulent, why does that translate to 'mental illness can't be projected on anything outside the sufferer and is because they don't want to accept certain events'? That hardly makes sense to me, certainly not if you're implying this for the entire list of mental disorders.

You can trigger a psychotic episode using drugs, for instance. Marijuana is one of the most dangerous for people who are susceptible to have an episode. Because it ups the dopamine levels in the brain and the people susceptible to psychosis lack the mechanism that breaks it down after the drug's been used. When they use the drug daily, the brain has a continuous high level of dopamine and can trigger a psychotic episode.

How is that not a chemical imbalance?

Or are you just talking about depression, if so, why generalise it to include all mental illness?
Vryko Lakas's avatar

Wheezing Gekko

Votaro
No actually it is tuned to get you results regarding what the FDA admits to regarding the fraudulence of the chemical imbalance hypothesis. It's a matter of fact, not theory.

Given the way you've been misrepresenting your own sources, why don't you tell me in your own words what the FDA admits to?
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,
Manic Depression,
Sociophobia,
Borderline Personality Disorder,
Panic Disorder,
Racing Thoughts,
And bursts of adrenaline plague me.


Based on scientific data, these things are caused by:
A. Environmental Factors
B. An imbalance of hormonal chemicals
C. Inbalenced diet.
D. Lack of proper exercise
E. Genetics


I find pharmaceutical drugs to be similar to lobotomy, leaving the patient in a sluggard like state. Quite inappropriate for a person such as myself wishing to live life to the fullest. Therefore I am working on a holistic path; which still means paying close attention to my brain chemicals. I'm simply using foods and herbs to correspond. Partaking in certain activites can also induce chemical reactions in the brain, which means that partaking in these activities can help to cure you of mental illness.
I have been through treatment my entire life, and have even been instututionalised. Mental Health and curing mental ailments is an extensive part of my being, that I am slowly freeing myself from based on these methods, but science is the real key to everything.



P.S. ABOUT DRUGS.
There are receptors in our brains for Cannabinoids and Opiates.
Tetrahydrocannabinol is similar to stem cells in the way that they target the parts of the body that are ailed and get to work.
THC is even cultivated and distributed in pill form by physicians to patients with Cancer and many other serious physical illnesses; but patients will say time in and out that the pill is no where near as effective as all natural marijuana.
There are negative side effects, but there are holistic methods to discount these. It's all about a plan.
All other substances cause you to become "high" because they are poisoning or damaging you in some way.
I love marijuana and consider myself a stoner (I have never consumed any other sort of mind altering substance besides pharmaceuticals) but I see my self living a full life without using it because I view it as a medicine not a crutch, and have already healed quite a bit since I began using it Jan 2011. I do think it will always be a part of my life however because I want to become a naturopathic hematologist and study the effects of tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol in blood disease.
Yurdarkreverie
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,
Manic Depression,
Sociophobia,
Borderline Personality Disorder,
Panic Disorder,
Racing Thoughts,
And bursts of adrenaline plague me.


Based on scientific data, these things are caused by:
A. Environmental Factors
B. An imbalance of hormonal chemicals
C. Inbalenced diet.
D. Lack of proper exercise
E. Genetics


I find pharmaceutical drugs to be similar to lobotomy, leaving the patient in a sluggard like state. Quite inappropriate for a person such as myself wishing to live life to the fullest. Therefore I am working on a holistic path; which still means paying close attention to my brain chemicals. I'm simply using foods and herbs to correspond. Partaking in certain activites can also induce chemical reactions in the brain, which means that partaking in these activities can help to cure you of mental illness.
I have been through treatment my entire life, and have even been instututionalised. Mental Health and curing mental ailments is an extensive part of my being, that I am slowly freeing myself from based on these methods, but science is the real key to everything.



P.S. ABOUT DRUGS.
There are receptors in our brains for Cannabinoids and Opiates.
Tetrahydrocannabinol is similar to stem cells in the way that they target the parts of the body that are ailed and get to work.
THC is even cultivated and distributed in pill form by physicians to patients with Cancer and many other serious physical illnesses; but patients will say time in and out that the pill is no where near as effective as all natural marijuana.
There are negative side effects, but there are holistic methods to discount these. It's all about a plan.
All other substances cause you to become "high" because they are poisoning or damaging you in some way.
I love marijuana and consider myself a stoner (I have never consumed any other sort of mind altering substance besides pharmaceuticals) but I see my self living a full life without using it because I view it as a medicine not a crutch, and have already healed quite a bit since I began using it Jan 2011. I do think it will always be a part of my life however because I want to become a naturopathic hematologist and study the effects of tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol in blood disease.


Your not using it as a medicine if your you for see using for the rest of your life. The point of psychotropic drugs is to eventually whein yourself off them by developing other skills in therapy, councilling or by yourself.

Otherwise im glad you touched on the wholistic approach to mental health treatment.
DXnobodyX
Yurdarkreverie
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,
Manic Depression,
Sociophobia,
Borderline Personality Disorder,
Panic Disorder,
Racing Thoughts,
And bursts of adrenaline plague me.


Based on scientific data, these things are caused by:
A. Environmental Factors
B. An imbalance of hormonal chemicals
C. Inbalenced diet.
D. Lack of proper exercise
E. Genetics


I find pharmaceutical drugs to be similar to lobotomy, leaving the patient in a sluggard like state. Quite inappropriate for a person such as myself wishing to live life to the fullest. Therefore I am working on a holistic path; which still means paying close attention to my brain chemicals. I'm simply using foods and herbs to correspond. Partaking in certain activites can also induce chemical reactions in the brain, which means that partaking in these activities can help to cure you of mental illness.
I have been through treatment my entire life, and have even been instututionalised. Mental Health and curing mental ailments is an extensive part of my being, that I am slowly freeing myself from based on these methods, but science is the real key to everything.



P.S. ABOUT DRUGS.
There are receptors in our brains for Cannabinoids and Opiates.
Tetrahydrocannabinol is similar to stem cells in the way that they target the parts of the body that are ailed and get to work.
THC is even cultivated and distributed in pill form by physicians to patients with Cancer and many other serious physical illnesses; but patients will say time in and out that the pill is no where near as effective as all natural marijuana.
There are negative side effects, but there are holistic methods to discount these. It's all about a plan.
All other substances cause you to become "high" because they are poisoning or damaging you in some way.
I love marijuana and consider myself a stoner (I have never consumed any other sort of mind altering substance besides pharmaceuticals) but I see my self living a full life without using it because I view it as a medicine not a crutch, and have already healed quite a bit since I began using it Jan 2011. I do think it will always be a part of my life however because I want to become a naturopathic hematologist and study the effects of tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol in blood disease.


Your not using it as a medicine if your you for see using for the rest of your life. The point of psychotropic drugs is to eventually whein yourself off them by developing other skills in therapy, councilling or by yourself.

Otherwise im glad you touched on the wholistic approach to mental health treatment.
I did state that "I see myself living a whole life with out it as I see it as a medicine not a crutch."

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