# Welcome to Gaia! ::

Dapper Genius

• 200
• 200
• 200
Suicidesoldier#1
But you won't figure that out until the 2030's or so.

The role play forums are this way

Fanatical Zealot

CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
But you won't figure that out until the 2030's or so.

The role play forums are this way

Oh no, I'm being completely serious.

Dapper Genius

• 200
• 200
• 200
Suicidesoldier#1
CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
But you won't figure that out until the 2030's or so.

The role play forums are this way

Oh no, I'm being completely serious.

Right.
Prove any of it.
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
My personal hypothesis on the matter is that time travels in one direction via inertia, or gravity, but on a 4th dimensional level. On the 4th dimensional plane, our 3 dimensional universe travels in a fixed direction. Going back in time would require some very fancy things going on since you share 4th dimensional inertia with the rest of the universe you travel in.

If it's gravitationally based, it's weirder to me. If time can be expressed as the distance traveled by our universe towards another object on the 4th dimensional plane, when happens if we reach it? Does time end, or become erratic as we pass through this new possible universe?

Of course that's entirely hypothetical and I have no science to back that up, but It seems plausible to me.
I mean it's pretty probable that its only our perception of time that goes one way. And that doesn't really change things for us, because if we're stuck going forward in time it seems pretty much the same. Time travel, in that sense, would mean allowing someone's brain to go a different direction in time, which seems pretty... unlikely.
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.

Fanatical Zealot

CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
But you won't figure that out until the 2030's or so.

The role play forums are this way

Oh no, I'm being completely serious.

Right.
Prove any of it.

Give me like, 30 years. xp

Fanatical Zealot

Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
My personal hypothesis on the matter is that time travels in one direction via inertia, or gravity, but on a 4th dimensional level. On the 4th dimensional plane, our 3 dimensional universe travels in a fixed direction. Going back in time would require some very fancy things going on since you share 4th dimensional inertia with the rest of the universe you travel in.

If it's gravitationally based, it's weirder to me. If time can be expressed as the distance traveled by our universe towards another object on the 4th dimensional plane, when happens if we reach it? Does time end, or become erratic as we pass through this new possible universe?

Of course that's entirely hypothetical and I have no science to back that up, but It seems plausible to me.
I mean it's pretty probable that its only our perception of time that goes one way. And that doesn't really change things for us, because if we're stuck going forward in time it seems pretty much the same. Time travel, in that sense, would mean allowing someone's brain to go a different direction in time, which seems pretty... unlikely.
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.

That's not circular. xp

It's reiterating the initial statement. The entire concept is the direction in time you perceive yourself to be going in is arbitrary.
Suicidesoldier#1
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.

That's not circular. xp

It's reiterating the initial statement. The entire concept is the direction in time you perceive yourself to be going in is arbitrary.
I think you're missing the context of the idea that time has inertia. So time moves forward because it has "inertia" and it has that inertia because it moves forward. That's circular.

Fanatical Zealot

Vannak
Suicidesoldier#1
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.

That's not circular. xp

It's reiterating the initial statement. The entire concept is the direction in time you perceive yourself to be going in is arbitrary.
I think you're missing the context of the idea that time has inertia. So time moves forward because it has "inertia" and it has that inertia because it moves forward. That's circular.

Nah.

If something arbitrarily pointed it in that direction might keep going, but I do see your basis for circular stuffsz. xp

Dapper Genius

• 200
• 200
• 200
Suicidesoldier#1
Give me like, 30 years. xp

So you have no scientific proof for any of this?

Fanatical Zealot

CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
Give me like, 30 years. xp

So you have no scientific proof for any of this?

Like I said, it will be officially created and discovered and whatnot in the 2030's or so.

But all of it is theoretically scientifically possible. xp
Suicidesoldier#1
CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
Give me like, 30 years. xp

So you have no scientific proof for any of this?

Like I said, it will be officially created and discovered and whatnot in the 2030's or so.

But all of it is theoretically scientifically possible. xp
I think what she's getting at is where, besides your a**, did you pull the 2030s out of? And how do you know it'll ever be confirmed that's the way things are, anyways? How do you know these things are even real?

Fanatical Zealot

Vannak
Suicidesoldier#1
CuAnnan
Suicidesoldier#1
Give me like, 30 years. xp

So you have no scientific proof for any of this?

Like I said, it will be officially created and discovered and whatnot in the 2030's or so.

But all of it is theoretically scientifically possible. xp
I think what she's getting at is where, besides your a**, did you pull the 2030s out of? And how do you know it'll ever be confirmed that's the way things are, anyways? How do you know these things are even real?

You can never confirm it's actually real, it's only a guess. Obviously, we can never truly interact with this stuff. But the thermodynamic collapse of the universe has to be caused by something. As the universe gets "colder" the energy density of the universe will go down; with negative matter, and therefore negative energy, this means every attribute will be exemplified I.E. negative matter will be moving faster.

You would think the universe was shrinking. Matter bends space, and as a result, things like black holes and suns should in theory be pulling everything together slightly; but it's not. Negative matter on the other hand would have negative gravity. As it expands, and the energy density becomes less, so to speak, we're going to see an opposite effect, space expansion. Due the exponential fact that you can basically lose as much energy as you want, the effects of negative matter will be exponentially stronger than matter which has limits, and negative matter which can travel infinitely fast and have a near infinite amount of negative energy. Hence this "anti-gravity", or dark gravity effect is being produced by some kind of invisible force; but it's not a force, it's mass. Negative mass, which is causing space to expand more rapidly then it's contracting. Due to the inherent exponential "power" so to speak of negative matter compared to normal matter and it's near opposite effects, the universe will continue expanding while the negative gravity, or anti-gravity doesn't change density, so to speak. It's true, we can never come in contact with this stuff, but we can measure it's gravitational effect, on the "neutral" constraints of space time (which isn't negative or positive, it's more like 0) which indeed seems to permeate the universe. Negative matter should just be a bunch of particles flying around, since it wouldn't clump together like regular mass, so we likely won't see negative creatures or planets or anything, just a bunch of space dust.

Also I'm from the future. ninja

You're right, in that spatial expansion could be being caused by some unknown phenomena, but obviously I got here from an Einstein rosen bridge, so something like it must exist. xp

Destructive Friend

Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
My personal hypothesis on the matter is that time travels in one direction via inertia, or gravity, but on a 4th dimensional level. On the 4th dimensional plane, our 3 dimensional universe travels in a fixed direction. Going back in time would require some very fancy things going on since you share 4th dimensional inertia with the rest of the universe you travel in.

If it's gravitationally based, it's weirder to me. If time can be expressed as the distance traveled by our universe towards another object on the 4th dimensional plane, when happens if we reach it? Does time end, or become erratic as we pass through this new possible universe?

Of course that's entirely hypothetical and I have no science to back that up, but It seems plausible to me.
I mean it's pretty probable that its only our perception of time that goes one way. And that doesn't really change things for us, because if we're stuck going forward in time it seems pretty much the same. Time travel, in that sense, would mean allowing someone's brain to go a different direction in time, which seems pretty... unlikely.
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.
We are moving in one direction in the w[/w] axis, most likely moving in the 3 other axis as well at varying speeds. On the w axis, the direction we are going in is for OUR purposes forward. The other direction is for OUR purposes backwards. The orientation is relative and meaningless, but it serves to explain that there is an axis to be traveled on in two directions.

We aren't just "moving forward because we're moving forward", the direction we move is what we call forward because that's where we're headed.

If you are to view a 3 dimensional object from a 4th dimensional perspective, something changes. You no longer view a cube as a cube, but a shape composed of an infinite myriad of cubes in the shape of everywhere said cube has ever been in time. This shape is the movement of itself in the 4th dimensional axis, as it moves forward on the axis, it's location in 3 dimensional space changes depending on where it is in time. If a person picks up the cube and carries it into another room, as you move the cube forward in the 4th dimension, it moves in the 3 lower dimensions with respect to the time it takes for this person to carry the cube.

In a way every object you've ever seen is a 4th dimensional object, but you aren't perceiving it from the right perspective to actually see it as it would be seen were you able to perceive this fourth dimensional axis.
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
Vannak
False Dichotomy
I think you're thinking of it the wrong way. Your brain is changing over time. You can't think backwards in time because you're trying to start doing something in the past... and you're trying to start it in the present.

You are locked in your perception of passing time. Were time to stop, you wouldn't realize it after it resumed. The only way to perceive time as a distance to be traveled is to see the world from a new perspective we are incapable of, a 4th dimensional point of view we lack. Time forward-- and backwards, is a direction no different than the way we can point up, or down, or sideways. As our location in 4th dimensional space changes, so does our 3rd dimensional shape. This, to us, is interpreted as movement of the world, and time. Depending on how you look at it, everywhere you have ever been, and your entire life, from birth to adulthood and death is all one 4D shape, we're just moving through the slideshow of time.

My issue is that your reasoning is circular, you say time moves forward because it has been moving forward so it will continue to by a property like inertia. In general the past isn't any more "set in stone" than the future is, but because of entropy it's very difficult for changes to be made "in the past" than "in the future", as any past state has a growing set of disordered particles that need to be reordered to change it, where in the future the number of possibilities shrinks as entropy goes down. All this come to say that entropy pushes large systems in a one way direction simply because it's easier to undo the future than it is to undo the past. This also explains why the past is clearer to us than the future seems to be.

It seems there's not really another explanation. Saying time moves forward for us because of inertia doesn't make much sense because it doesn't explain why that inertia pushes us one way instead of the other. And what's worse is that we can actually send things back in time and the further back they go the less accurately they do so, where if inertia was running things it should go back forever.
First off, how is my reasoning circular?

Second off, The direction we would move in via inertia is irrelevant, ana or kata. There's no need for an explanation of why one instead of the other, regardless of the direction, our movement in time is the direction it is going in. To go backwards in time is to resist that inertia, which is impossible without having a foothold in a 4th dimensional direction that allows you to travel in the opposite direction fast enough for your relative velocity to the universe to be negative. I can't even imagine how such a thing would be possible... or survivable.

Rushing forwards in time is another matter completely, as the capability to accelerate/decelerate time relative to another location is well documented and understood. It's also not very efficient.

Anyways, my setup is hypothetical to begin with. It could just as easily be a variant, "what if we rotated on the ana/kata axis?" or whatnot.
Its circular because you're saying we're moving forwards because we move forwards.

The issue is that information travels better in one direction in time than another because of the change in entropy. I don't think the idea of time "going" in one direction is what's really going on: Information goes in one direction, and its not "forward" in time as much as it's along increasing entropy.

We are moving in one direction in the w[/w] axis, most likely moving in the 3 other axis as well at varying speeds. On the w axis, the direction we are going in is for OUR purposes forward. The other direction is for OUR purposes backwards. The orientation is relative and meaningless, but it serves to explain that there is an axis to be traveled on in two directions.

We aren't just "moving forward because we're moving forward", the direction we move is what we call forward because that's where we're headed.

If you are to view a 3 dimensional object from a 4th dimensional perspective, something changes. You no longer view a cube as a cube, but a shape composed of an infinite myriad of cubes in the shape of everywhere said cube has ever been in time. This shape is the movement of itself in the 4th dimensional axis, as it moves forward on the axis, it's location in 3 dimensional space changes depending on where it is in time. If a person picks up the cube and carries it into another room, as you move the cube forward in the 4th dimension, it moves in the 3 lower dimensions with respect to the time it takes for this person to carry the cube.

In a way every object you've ever seen is a 4th dimensional object, but you aren't perceiving it from the right perspective to actually see it as it would be seen were you able to perceive this fourth dimensional axis.

The thing is, the orientation isn't meaningless, arbitrary and so on. What you're essentially saying is that time moves in a direction, and it simply keeps moving in that direction. Sure, forward and backwards are as arbitrary as up and down. However, what I'm saying is that it's deeper and slightly less arbitrary issue than you think. The difference between past and future is not arbitrary. The reason things in the past are remembered and the future is not isn't because of some arbitrary direction we travel in, it's because of, strangely enough, statistics.

There is no possible way that a low entropy universe could have a time direction opposite of ours with out some really weird spacial geometry going on.

I completely understand the 4-d analogy as you present it. I'm not saying it's particularly flawed for what it is: an analogy. However there is something more to time than just a particular direction.