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Dr Dimari
To have a faith or religious belief is not delusional. This is because there is evidence to suggest that these faiths may indeed exist.


Proof?
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Oh look, it's one of those tolerant atheists!






Just kidding. Those don't exist rolleyes

Why should an atheist be tolerant?
Dr Dimari's avatar

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Alr3m1
Dr Dimari
To have a faith or religious belief is not delusional. This is because there is evidence to suggest that these faiths may indeed exist.


Proof?

Firstly, you cannot prove anything ... you can only supply evidence in the support of.

The evidence is: the many books that exist discussing the religions we see and their history, including the holy texts themselves. Further there is evidence to suggest that humans born to a society that is completely remote will create a belief system regardless, this is normal human behaviour.

Further there is no concrete and absolute evidence to suggest religion does not exist.

Don't get me wrong however... Religion is important but shouldn't be used to rule the world, as so to speak. By that I mean that the State and Religion must be kept seperate. Faith is great to have, and I personally enjoy having my faith. But I don't run my life by the rules of God first off, because I respect the rights of those who don't have a faith and that society should be fair to all, do no harm to other at the end of the day. Hence why ultra right wing religious groups scare me...
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castrillo
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Oh look, it's one of those tolerant atheists!






Just kidding. Those don't exist rolleyes

Why should an atheist be tolerant?

Maybe because everyone should be tolerate or try to be to all... well with the exception of criminals etc...
Dr Dimari
castrillo
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Oh look, it's one of those tolerant atheists!






Just kidding. Those don't exist rolleyes

Why should an atheist be tolerant?

Maybe because everyone should be tolerate or try to be to all... well with the exception of criminals etc...


Moderation in everything xp
Astrophiliac's avatar

Dangerous Lunatic

Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
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DXnobodyX
Dr Dimari
castrillo
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Oh look, it's one of those tolerant atheists!






Just kidding. Those don't exist rolleyes

Why should an atheist be tolerant?

Maybe because everyone should be tolerate or try to be to all... well with the exception of criminals etc...


Moderation in everything xp


Tolerant atheists do exist. People forget that not all atheists are as equally narrow-minded as some very religious people. Atheism means lack of belief, not being intolerant to all religion. There are many non-tolerant religious people who insist that atheists must be depressed and wrong, that pisses me off as much as non-tolerant atheists who insist all religious people are delusional and wrong.
Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.

How very convinient, huh? Truly makes you wonder just how much is & isn't possible.

Damn you universe!
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stealthmongoose
Good evening gentlemen in psych. It's been a while since i've come here. I was recently proposed an argument that religion is not a mental illness from the basis that "Mental illness is classified as abnormal mental behavior, which means if everybody is mentally ill that nobody is."

I already created a thread in the M&R outlining the moral quandries of this issue and proposed a discussion there.

Here though, i'd like to ask about the scientific values behind this assertion. We can classify mental illness as neurological, behavioral, and physical disorders, but why would any psychiatrist who bases his practice in science ignore that fact when it comes to religion? As a side note, i'd like to assert that any psychiatrist who ignores these behaviors in the religious is in fact committing malpractice.

That aside though, my question is simple: If the same disorders, behaviors, and harms that come from mental illness are indicative of those who have adopted a faith more-so than those who have not, then where is the justification in treating one group as though they have a free pass to act schizophrenic, murderous, or harmful to their society? Is it truly the Leviathan scenario as i posited in the M&R, or is there some real scientific basis behind treating the religious as though they're free to be psychotic?
because they also believe in god.
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Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
magnets, we can observe their effects, same with quantum effects, not with religious. its different than how you say it is.
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Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
magnets, we can observe their effects, same with quantum effects, not with religious. its different than how you say it is.

No it's not. People say they see things and that they feel things, who are we to turn around and say it's all bullshit? What do we know? It's certainly not a metal illness, the thought of people even saying that disgusts me. When did we get so egositical and big headed enough to call someone's RELIGION, a belief, their whole goddamn lives, a mental illness? If you can't see that, then you're clearly just another person who thinks they're morals and right because they're your morals.
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Astrophiliac
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Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
magnets, we can observe their effects, same with quantum effects, not with religious. its different than how you say it is.

No it's not. People say they see things and that they feel things, who are we to turn around and say it's all bullshit? What do we know? It's certainly not a metal illness, the thought of people even saying that disgusts me. When did we get so egositical and big headed enough to call someone's RELIGION, a belief, their whole goddamn lives, a mental illness? If you can't see that, then you're clearly just another person who thinks they're morals and right because they're your morals.
naw im actually a little open on morals. Well, for instance, the church has been hypocritical decieving controlling, for power. To me, a belief system from that isnt to be trusted, and possibly from the same origins as that. And so, if people feel stuff on their own, like when they are on drugs and hallucinate, does that make it real? No. Does believing in santa make santa real? No. And now a bunch of people are making all sorts of beliefs with new age spirituality, what are the true motives of people who write those books? Where did they get their ideas from? Are they lieing? If they are honest, then they created it themselves, or researched, or inherited it. When people research there are multitudes of logical fallacies and biases that can prove it inaccurate, wishful thinking for example. And I think anything thats real has a real explanation. A real understanding. Something not real, would therefore not be logical in understanding it. Not saying religion is useless, religion has its uses. Belief has its uses. Its the difference between each society (belief). The aztecs worshiped a god, made long standing structures. Nomadic native americans believed in mother nature and such, and didn't deface the land, they respected it. The types of things they believed shaped their society, and what we believe is shaping ours. And I think understanding and honesty are probably the most important things for a proper society. Something unproven like religion (it is unproven otherwise itd be scientific) is not going to have a real understanding when the symbols have many potential meanings, and overall its self-contradicting (god's wrath when wrath is one of the 7 deadly sins for example) and because its has many different meanings, interpretations, there are many different churches, meaning we are being divided not united, overall. Im sure you heard of 'divide and conquer' right? Probably something the church has used for hundreds of years. It gets in the way of understanding, promotes difference and conflict, belief in opinion (because different interpretations must be opinion they all cannot be equally true when they are different) and this causes things like politics to exploit these people, because they think their opinion is more important than the straight up facts.
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Astrophiliac
We Are Organisms
Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
magnets, we can observe their effects, same with quantum effects, not with religious. its different than how you say it is.

No it's not. People say they see things and that they feel things, who are we to turn around and say it's all bullshit? What do we know? It's certainly not a metal illness, the thought of people even saying that disgusts me. When did we get so egositical and big headed enough to call someone's RELIGION, a belief, their whole goddamn lives, a mental illness? If you can't see that, then you're clearly just another person who thinks they're morals and right because they're your morals.
naw im actually a little open on morals. Well, for instance, the church has been hypocritical decieving controlling, for power. To me, a belief system from that isnt to be trusted, and possibly from the same origins as that. And so, if people feel stuff on their own, like when they are on drugs and hallucinate, does that make it real? No. Does believing in santa make santa real? No. And now a bunch of people are making all sorts of beliefs with new age spirituality, what are the true motives of people who write those books? Where did they get their ideas from? Are they lieing? If they are honest, then they created it themselves, or researched, or inherited it. When people research there are multitudes of logical fallacies and biases that can prove it inaccurate, wishful thinking for example. And I think anything thats real has a real explanation. A real understanding. Something not real, would therefore not be logical in understanding it. Not saying religion is useless, religion has its uses. Belief has its uses. Its the difference between each society (belief). The aztecs worshiped a god, made long standing structures. Nomadic native americans believed in mother nature and such, and didn't deface the land, they respected it. The types of things they believed shaped their society, and what we believe is shaping ours. And I think understanding and honesty are probably the most important things for a proper society. Something unproven like religion (it is unproven otherwise itd be scientific) is not going to have a real understanding when the symbols have many potential meanings, and overall its self-contradicting (god's wrath when wrath is one of the 7 deadly sins for example) and because its has many different meanings, interpretations, there are many different churches, meaning we are being divided not united, overall. Im sure you heard of 'divide and conquer' right? Probably something the church has used for hundreds of years. It gets in the way of understanding, promotes difference and conflict, belief in opinion (because different interpretations must be opinion they all cannot be equally true when they are different) and this causes things like politics to exploit these people, because they think their opinion is more important than the straight up facts.


That was far too long for me to take seriously or read at this time in the morning, however, I got most of it, so I'mma just say this. I believe in extraterrestrial life, I have absolutely no reason to believe in it since I don't think it'll be ANYTHING like humans or ANYTHING like the world today. All I know is that I feel it's there, there is no proof, it's not about knowing there's a human race so there must be more. I also wouldn't call believing in santa a mentall-illness, lol.
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Astrophiliac
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Astrophiliac
Saying that religion is a mental illness is purely ignorant. I'm not religious myself, should it matter, but ANY scientist just know that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Take quantum as a big one.
magnets, we can observe their effects, same with quantum effects, not with religious. its different than how you say it is.

No it's not. People say they see things and that they feel things, who are we to turn around and say it's all bullshit? What do we know? It's certainly not a metal illness, the thought of people even saying that disgusts me. When did we get so egositical and big headed enough to call someone's RELIGION, a belief, their whole goddamn lives, a mental illness? If you can't see that, then you're clearly just another person who thinks they're morals and right because they're your morals.
naw im actually a little open on morals. Well, for instance, the church has been hypocritical decieving controlling, for power. To me, a belief system from that isnt to be trusted, and possibly from the same origins as that. And so, if people feel stuff on their own, like when they are on drugs and hallucinate, does that make it real? No. Does believing in santa make santa real? No. And now a bunch of people are making all sorts of beliefs with new age spirituality, what are the true motives of people who write those books? Where did they get their ideas from? Are they lieing? If they are honest, then they created it themselves, or researched, or inherited it. When people research there are multitudes of logical fallacies and biases that can prove it inaccurate, wishful thinking for example. And I think anything thats real has a real explanation. A real understanding. Something not real, would therefore not be logical in understanding it. Not saying religion is useless, religion has its uses. Belief has its uses. Its the difference between each society (belief). The aztecs worshiped a god, made long standing structures. Nomadic native americans believed in mother nature and such, and didn't deface the land, they respected it. The types of things they believed shaped their society, and what we believe is shaping ours. And I think understanding and honesty are probably the most important things for a proper society. Something unproven like religion (it is unproven otherwise itd be scientific) is not going to have a real understanding when the symbols have many potential meanings, and overall its self-contradicting (god's wrath when wrath is one of the 7 deadly sins for example) and because its has many different meanings, interpretations, there are many different churches, meaning we are being divided not united, overall. Im sure you heard of 'divide and conquer' right? Probably something the church has used for hundreds of years. It gets in the way of understanding, promotes difference and conflict, belief in opinion (because different interpretations must be opinion they all cannot be equally true when they are different) and this causes things like politics to exploit these people, because they think their opinion is more important than the straight up facts.


That was far too long for me to take seriously or read at this time in the morning, however, I got most of it, so I'mma just say this. I believe in extraterrestrial life, I have absolutely no reason to believe in it since I don't think it'll be ANYTHING like humans or ANYTHING like the world today. All I know is that I feel it's there, there is no proof, it's not about knowing there's a human race so there must be more. I also wouldn't call believing in santa a mentall-illness, lol.
its technically not a mental illness, but it can be as detrimental as one, I just looked up maslow's hierarhcy of needs for another thread for example (theres variations on the image however) User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. I would think since cognitive needs come before self-actualization, that believing in santa would be a detriment truely to its needs and those above, mental illness can affect other needs too such as sleep cycles so that is much more damaging and can affect the whole pyramid. Still having the top of the pyramid out of shape isnt a good sign either.
And my quantity of my post is because I put alot of effort into it, dismissing it isn't going to help anyone.

But extraterrestial life is logical. In science, some rare occurences like 1^-23668294 chance of happening on the quantum level, you would say well its impossible. But because the unniverse, and even our planet, is so massive compared to those nuetrons or w/e, and theres soooo many nuetrons, it becomes a common occurance, it happens all the time. Same with the number of planets our there, a million solar systems in a galaxy, a million galaxies in the unniverse, there has got to be life elsewhere, logically.
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Suicidesoldier#1
Boo, try harder.

On a srsz note, there is a spirituality part of the brain that's present in nearly all humans so, even if it is crazy, it's nothing beyond a normal human being.

Wait, seriously?! A 'God spot' of specialization, like the FFA? Do you know where this is reported to be exactly? My guess would be that an experience of spirituality is not localized, but I am no neurotheologist. I have read Ramachandran's work pointing to the medial temporal lobe (BTW Phantoms in the Brain is on of my fav books, but I am a sucker for anything written by both Ramachandran and Sacks) ... although that was not an imaging study and I am sure it is outdated by now, so I was just curious what you know. o.O
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