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stealthmongoose's avatar

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Good evening gentlemen in psych. It's been a while since i've come here. I was recently proposed an argument that religion is not a mental illness from the basis that "Mental illness is classified as abnormal mental behavior, which means if everybody is mentally ill that nobody is."

I already created a thread in the M&R outlining the moral quandries of this issue and proposed a discussion there.

Here though, i'd like to ask about the scientific values behind this assertion. We can classify mental illness as neurological, behavioral, and physical disorders, but why would any psychiatrist who bases his practice in science ignore that fact when it comes to religion? As a side note, i'd like to assert that any psychiatrist who ignores these behaviors in the religious is in fact committing malpractice.

That aside though, my question is simple: If the same disorders, behaviors, and harms that come from mental illness are indicative of those who have adopted a faith more-so than those who have not, then where is the justification in treating one group as though they have a free pass to act schizophrenic, murderous, or harmful to their society? Is it truly the Leviathan scenario as i posited in the M&R, or is there some real scientific basis behind treating the religious as though they're free to be psychotic?
stealthmongoose
Here though, i'd like to ask about the scientific values behind this assertion. We can classify mental illness as neurological, behavioral, and physical disorders, but why would any psychiatrist who bases his practice in science ignore that fact when it comes to religion?

Do you have any grounds on which to diagnose a religious belief as a disorder? Or, can you show that religious belief is not normal function for a healthy human brain?

Quote:
As a side note, i'd like to assert that any psychiatrist who ignores these behaviors in the religious is in fact committing malpractice.

Malpractice is a legal term. A psychiatrist who does not deviate from the standard of care is likely not committing malpractice. If a psychiatrist were to diagnose a religious believer as mentally ill, treat based off it, and cause harm, that would likely be considered malpractice because it's outside the standard of care and not evidence based. So, contrary to what you assert, someone who is doing what you say actually puts themselves at risk for liability.

Quote:
If the same disorders, behaviors, and harms that come from mental illness are indicative of those who have adopted a faith more-so than those who have not, then where is the justification in treating one group as though they have a free pass to act schizophrenic, murderous, or harmful to their society?

You're confusing law and medicine.
Dr Dimari's avatar

Familiar Flatterer

To have a faith or religious belief is not delusional. This is because there is evidence to suggest that these faiths may indeed exist.

Delusional behaviour is to have total belief in something when there is concrete evidence to suggest the opposite. Psychiatrists don't "turn a blind eye to religion" ... if someone was claiming to be God, then it is likely they would be monitored ... as that is delusional behaviour... but acting by their interpretation of what God wants its opinion rather than delusional ... and its a legal matter not a medical one.
It's also important to point out that there is a recognized psychiatric diagnosis of "religious delusion" that can be its own thing or part of other illnesses. However, religious belief is not the same thing as it doesn't meet the requirements for a delusion on its own.
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

Fanatical Zealot

Boo, try harder.

On a srsz note, there is a spirituality part of the brain that's present in nearly all humans so, even if it is crazy, it's nothing beyond a normal human being.
THeSLuSH's avatar

Sparkly Lunatic

Suicidesoldier#1
Boo, try harder.

On a srsz note, there is a spirituality part of the brain that's present in nearly all humans so, even if it is crazy, it's nothing beyond a normal human being.

Wait, seriously?! A 'God spot' of specialization, like the FFA? Do you know where this is reported to be exactly? My guess would be that an experience of spirituality is not localized, but I am no neurotheologist. I have read Ramachandran's work pointing to the medial temporal lobe (BTW Phantoms in the Brain is on of my fav books, but I am a sucker for anything written by both Ramachandran and Sacks) ... although that was not an imaging study and I am sure it is outdated by now, so I was just curious what you know. o.O
That is really odd. I actually considered conspiracy theorists to have mental illness as well.
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Mooby the Golden Sock
stealthmongoose
Here though, i'd like to ask about the scientific values behind this assertion. We can classify mental illness as neurological, behavioral, and physical disorders, but why would any psychiatrist who bases his practice in science ignore that fact when it comes to religion?

Do you have any grounds on which to diagnose a religious belief as a disorder? Or, can you show that religious belief is not normal function for a healthy human brain?
It has been shown seeing sexually suggestive material stimulates nueron growth in the brain, and that sex improves nueron growth in the brain region that has to do with smell. Rejecting sexual feelings as taboo or detestful is in fact a stressing factor. Stress is pretty unhealthy. And their culture, they get worked up at different people from them all the time.

But this isnt true of all religions, and isnt true of all cultures or nations or locations.

It is more misuse of religion that is bad. But religion can be inherently ill intentioned for all we know. In fact if theres a teaching religion can provide surely logical explanations could win anyone over to understanding its wisdom. But this isn't the case.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html

>>Read this article
>>Recognize what a baffling portion of the fastidiously religious I know have at least one, several, or all of these traits
>>lol really hard, then be slightly terrified for the world and all of humanity.
Odetotheoterprincess's avatar

Distinct Gaian

The Jawbreaker
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html

>>Read this article
>>Recognize what a baffling portion of the fastidiously religious I know have at least one, several, or all of these traits
>>lol really hard, then be slightly terrified for the world and all of humanity.

This reminds me of a troll and of cults.
Religion is a breeding ground for mental illness, ignorance, and evil behavior in today's society. I believe we must take the moral lessons of all religions, carefully and publicly deciding which lessons are obsolete and which are necessary for society to function pleasantly, and form them into a non religious text to teach our future children how to understand their own moral compass. Some of our forefathers did this with the bible, sorting out the words of deities and keeping the moral lessons of jesus of nazareth, compiled in a book called the teachings of jesus of nazareth. Even the great men that formed our country knew, and publicly outvoiced, that religion was unnecessary and the world would be far better without it. It is time for our species to wake up from their fairy tales and focus on our next big step in our evolution. This year marks our next phase according to the mayans. Maybe we'll move away from religion as we race towards multiple forms of immortality. Without the disease breathing down our necks faith will simply fade and blend into mutant religions before finally only a small faction of people believe in the old deities. If they be fanatics they would most likely refuse life extension procedures, thus mothernature will take its course and lead them to extinction. This evolution is lead by mothernature because we are natural creatures in her increasingly complex universe. Its Natural for us to evolve this way, question is though, how fast can we get ourselves there? It's our time to sway us away from religious nonsense and towards our bright future, if not for us then for our children, and all future generations.
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

Chaos_Road
Religion is a breeding ground for mental illness, ignorance, and evil behavior in today's society. I believe we must take the moral lessons of all religions, carefully and publicly deciding which lessons are obsolete and which are necessary for society to function pleasantly, and form them into a non religious text to teach our future children how to understand their own moral compass. Some of our forefathers did this with the bible, sorting out the words of deities and keeping the moral lessons of jesus of nazareth, compiled in a book called the teachings of jesus of nazareth. Even the great men that formed our country knew, and publicly outvoiced, that religion was unnecessary and the world would be far better without it. It is time for our species to wake up from their fairy tales and focus on our next big step in our evolution. This year marks our next phase according to the mayans. Maybe we'll move away from religion as we race towards multiple forms of immortality. Without the disease breathing down our necks faith will simply fade and blend into mutant religions before finally only a small faction of people believe in the old deities. If they be fanatics they would most likely refuse life extension procedures, thus mothernature will take its course and lead them to extinction. This evolution is lead by mothernature because we are natural creatures in her increasingly complex universe. Its Natural for us to evolve this way, question is though, how fast can we get ourselves there? It's our time to sway us away from religious nonsense and towards our bright future, if not for us then for our children, and all future generations.
belief is exceedingly important for society, you can see how certain beliefs shaped societies in the past, the difference between nomadic native americans and aztecs could be the aztecs had god(s) to worship. They built long standing structures while the nomads didnt.
We Are Organisms
Chaos_Road
Religion is a breeding ground for mental illness, ignorance, and evil behavior in today's society. I believe we must take the moral lessons of all religions, carefully and publicly deciding which lessons are obsolete and which are necessary for society to function pleasantly, and form them into a non religious text to teach our future children how to understand their own moral compass. Some of our forefathers did this with the bible, sorting out the words of deities and keeping the moral lessons of jesus of nazareth, compiled in a book called the teachings of jesus of nazareth. Even the great men that formed our country knew, and publicly outvoiced, that religion was unnecessary and the world would be far better without it. It is time for our species to wake up from their fairy tales and focus on our next big step in our evolution. This year marks our next phase according to the mayans. Maybe we'll move away from religion as we race towards multiple forms of immortality. Without t umhe disease breathing down our necks faith will simply fade and blend into mutant religions before finally only a small faction of people believe in the old deities. If they be fanatics they would most likely refuse life extension procedures, thus mothernature will take its course and lead them to extinction. This evolution is lead by mothernature because we are natural creatures in her increasingly complex universe. Its Natural for us to evolve this way, question is though, how fast can we get ourselves there? It's our time to sway us away from religious nonsense and towards our bright future, if not for us then for our children, and all future generations.
belief is exceedingly important for society, you can see how certain beliefs shaped societies in the past, the difference between nomadic native americans and aztecs could be the aztecs had god(s) to worship. They built long standing structures while the nomads didnt.
or because a larger population remained in one given area, rather than chasing the seasons and never planting steady roots. Religion was a tool that motivated our species to be better as a whole, but now it stands for ignorance and hides evil deeds behind "good" deeds. If it worked that way, places like the middle east, birthplace of the 3 largest religions on earth, including usa's good ol jesus, would be more built upon and advanced. Though egyptians did do as you said, so more possibly it was a very old motivational tool, that became obsolete a long time ago.
Oh look, it's one of those tolerant atheists!






Just kidding. Those don't exist rolleyes

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